Helen Wheels (Claire Voighent)
said...
"Dennis is not a scientist. If you are looking for a massage with a happy ending by all means go to Dennis."
Response
Well that's about as crass as it's ever gotten here except for perhaps me suggesting you go fuck yourself which I won't do as it is crass and not generally what I would say. It always sets me back reading the inane and downright ignorant comments many make here with regards to not only myself but the content of postings which never really get commented on with any depth or thought. Just look at the mostly ignorant, glittering generalities and insipid comments made on my Whale of a Tale posting. (Which is my last)
One doesn't have to be scientist to agree with a scientific presentation and quote them you fool. It's what you or religious types do as well when you aren't theologians either but I guess that's different in you mind..
For the record I have two state therapeutic massage licenses and am Nationally Certified as a Master Therapist. I spend hundreds of dollars a year on continuing education on ethics, bodywork and medical issues with clients, young and old. I am specially trained in Oncology Massage for those in chemo and cancer treatment and specialize in headache and stress treatment which 99% of the population seems to suffer with.. I have a very ethical and successful practice here in Portland and work every day and will til I drop because of the love of Christ that flowed through the Tkaches who promised one thing over the years and did another to my harm and because of my naïve trust in fools.
One doesn't have to be scientist to agree with a scientific presentation and quote them you fool. It's what you or religious types do as well when you aren't theologians either but I guess that's different in you mind..
For the record I have two state therapeutic massage licenses and am Nationally Certified as a Master Therapist. I spend hundreds of dollars a year on continuing education on ethics, bodywork and medical issues with clients, young and old. I am specially trained in Oncology Massage for those in chemo and cancer treatment and specialize in headache and stress treatment which 99% of the population seems to suffer with.. I have a very ethical and successful practice here in Portland and work every day and will til I drop because of the love of Christ that flowed through the Tkaches who promised one thing over the years and did another to my harm and because of my naïve trust in fools.
My clients are mostly professionals in a very wealthy part of Portland and are doctors, nurses, dentists, psychologists, financial advisors, professors and real estate types. Some come to recover from abuses and life tragedies. I have clients who come to me to cope with their Parkinson's' Disease or their debilitating headaches which interfere too much with their real lives. I love what I now do and where I now do it.
It's been a long difficult transition for me personally from WCG to here. I got here by way of drama, trauma, divorce, depression, anxiety , a few failures and some scary moments. I've had my heart broken and that too was my fault. I've sympathized with my few friends in ministry who took their lives by choosing a long term solution to short term problems. I understand the temptation.
I was asked to start my own church back in the day and leave WCG and the Tkaches. No. Once was enough. Pastoring in Greenville, SC on the heels of Gerald Weston and his legalist cronies was enough to begin my wake up call.
I joined no split, splinter or sliver. I did not set myself up to keep my ministry going at all costs because , as Joe Tkach said, "If you quit all you can do is get a job at Walmart." I worked hard to change careers and take care of myself only and do every day to help good people. I earn every damn penny I make and deserve it.
I get insulted, labeled and scorned regularly here on the blog for speaking out on my experience but that was a cheap shot. I'm the ONLY former minister who writes by name, posts a genuine pic ture and shares from the heart here. I have shared my struggle with anxiety and depression caused by working in the scandal riddled WCG way too long believing I could be an agent of change. I have admitted to my faults and failures during messy and difficult transitions. I have been about as open as I know to be with the sole purpose of helping those who may also be in messy mental, emotional and spiritual transitions.
I get insulted, labeled and scorned regularly here on the blog for speaking out on my experience but that was a cheap shot. I'm the ONLY former minister who writes by name, posts a genuine pic ture and shares from the heart here. I have shared my struggle with anxiety and depression caused by working in the scandal riddled WCG way too long believing I could be an agent of change. I have admitted to my faults and failures during messy and difficult transitions. I have been about as open as I know to be with the sole purpose of helping those who may also be in messy mental, emotional and spiritual transitions.
Why don't you give me a call, 864 905 9506 or give me your number and we can discuss it. Email me if you're incapable of using the phone. Denniscdiehl@aol.com I will post the discussion between us.
Also, I am not the resident "minister." I am not a minister of any kind. I wish I had never been one but I would not be here if I had not been there. I am me. An older and wiser non-believer after decades of trying to believe the unbelievable and see clearly what is clearly not there to see. I grew up more religious than most here and could quote whole chapters of the Bible as a child because that's how Dutch Reformed Calvinists raise their kids. I'm only responsible for me in the final analysis of how to live my life and neither you nor anyone else gets to live it for me as I don't get to live yours. In short, I don't fucking care in reality what you think or say but it does take me back a bit obviously and punch my "screw it" button.
I wrestle every week with dropping Banned from my "to do" list because, for me, there are really no meaningful exchanges or even friendships to build on. Thank you for your stupid comment and waking me up once and for all to the folly and foolishness of presenting topics beyond the ability of most to consider, clinging rather to fables and myths drummed into their heads by Herbert Armstrong and now the raging fools of the splits and splinters.
Call me Claire. It will be a call you'll never forget. I'll be home this evening waiting... If you call I will report our outcome here and be finished with it.
Also, I am not the resident "minister." I am not a minister of any kind. I wish I had never been one but I would not be here if I had not been there. I am me. An older and wiser non-believer after decades of trying to believe the unbelievable and see clearly what is clearly not there to see. I grew up more religious than most here and could quote whole chapters of the Bible as a child because that's how Dutch Reformed Calvinists raise their kids. I'm only responsible for me in the final analysis of how to live my life and neither you nor anyone else gets to live it for me as I don't get to live yours. In short, I don't fucking care in reality what you think or say but it does take me back a bit obviously and punch my "screw it" button.
I wrestle every week with dropping Banned from my "to do" list because, for me, there are really no meaningful exchanges or even friendships to build on. Thank you for your stupid comment and waking me up once and for all to the folly and foolishness of presenting topics beyond the ability of most to consider, clinging rather to fables and myths drummed into their heads by Herbert Armstrong and now the raging fools of the splits and splinters.
Call me Claire. It will be a call you'll never forget. I'll be home this evening waiting... If you call I will report our outcome here and be finished with it.
61 comments:
I have no idea where the comments went and I cannot restore anything. Blogger is crap right now. It must be an attack by satan....
An attack by Seitan?
Special broadcast.
"My fellow gehennians."
This morning I have directed "5th lucipherian" to conduct limited and targeted strikes on the apostate banned blog site.
For several months now former angels of light and our ra representative on earth have been thwarted and ridiculed by those who cannot stand the way of gnossis. Those scoffers have spiritualized away every value that has warmed our cold hearts. They make and invent stories about every reality and fact we have faced in our eternal battle versus the great demiurg in the north, that counterfeit to our ally Santa Clause.
2 days ago one of the chief mongrel bread spiritualizer split herself into at least 8 persona and speaking in tongues not using a and an in ways that "the word" intended since he created them. Then the split demon proposed the greatest sin of all. A happy ending, contrary to the reality of gloom and doom.
This will not stand!
5th lucipherian has conducted strikes and is presently safely back in their bases at the 7th realm as the results of their actions will now naturally evolve as intended.
Thank you and seitan bless the federation of evil
"I wrestle every week with dropping Banned from my "to do" list..."
I think that would be very good for you....wounds don't heal if you keep picking the scab off...
stop looking back, focus on what's ahead...get on with your massage practice, and your life.
Has anyone read on the Philadelphia Trumpet site, the recent article about demons. Evidently they are much more intelligent than humans and call us monkeys. Hello fellow monkeys.
Bizarre. Did one of the trolls figure out how to really mess up Banned? Why didn’t our almost arrested prophet see this one coming?
BB
I have no idea! This is so weird. Trying to get an answer from the Googletards is next to impossible. No one responds.
NO2HWA
When did all powerful, all knowing, all pervasive forces ever respond to us.......?
And guess what if all data is combined "this thing" from California will develop "consciousness" and it has started with devouring "our collective data". What will come to this.........request my booklet free for the asking.........
nck
BTW
The empty space a) makes me feel as one "left behind" b) makes me empathize with the ones instructed to have "a social amongst their own"
nck
One of your editors deleted the comments.
“I joined no split, splinter or sliver. I did not set myself up to keep my ministry going at all costs because , as Joe Tkach said, 'If you quit all you can do is get a job at Walmart.'”--DCD
Well, Dennis, that seems to explain why you stayed in the WCG even after the apostasy, and toughed it out there until you got laid off.
So much for the supposedly great Ambassador education. It seems to have trained people to suck up to and obey whoever was leading the WCG at the time in order to get a paycheck, or else go work at Walmart.
I remember one girl who had graduated from Ambassador University with distinction. She said it was hard to do because she had to quickly learn all the WCG's new teachings in time to repeat them back on the exams. It reminded me of what HWA had said about higher education being a system of memory training, with students being graded on how well they could memorize and repeat back whatever they had been told.
One local elder thought that his daughters could meet a better class of guy at university. It was surprising to hear that one of his daughters came back from her first year at Ambassador University pregnant but not quite married yet. Hopefully she found the better class of dink that she was looking for there.
Dennis, while your comments can be interesting sometimes, the problem is that you no longer believe in God and will therefore try to lead everyone astray. This is not the great good that you think you are doing. My own experience with evilutionists has been that they are not wise or good or nice. They are always up to no good and call it “survival of the fittest.”
Try exposing and opposing all the apostates, false prophets, and other jerks who have popped up like weeds all over the so-called COG scene without trying to turn everyone to godlessness. You cannot expect everyone to feel sorry for you all the time while you continually try to turn them away from God.
nck at 12:04 AM opined:
An attack by Seitan?
I have never trusted those gluten-rich vegan meat substitutes.
Could it be Seitan?
Anon June 10, 2018 at 8:38 AM
You wrote: You cannot expect everyone to feel sorry for you all the time while you continually try to turn them away from God.
--------------------
If you don't like the facts, then ignore them like the rest of the brain dead acog'ers.
And yes, exposing the corrupt daughters of the wcg should take precedence. People will believe what they want to. Seldom can you change that unless the individual is open to that and willing to listen and do the hard work of studying.
Anon 8:38 AM isn't being quite truthful when he suggests:
Try exposing and opposing all the apostates, false prophets, and other jerks who have popped up like weeds all over the so-called COG scene without trying to turn everyone to godlessness.
Anon 8:38 AM pretends that Dennis's "godlessness" is the problem. We all know, however, that if Dennis started proclaiming the glories of Allah and of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Anon 8:38 AM would be deeply offended and would not praise Dennis's godliness. Neither would he appreciate Dennis if he tried to persuade us of the glories of Aten or Zeus or Thor.
In fact, truth be told, Anon 8:38 AM is almost as atheistic as Dennis. Anon 8:38 AM merely believes in one more god than Dennis does. Were Dennis to start presenting the anti-evolutionary writings of Muslim creationists, writings that supposedly prove the truth of the Koran, Anon 8:38 AM would be just as uncomfortable as he is when Dennis trots out the pro-evolutionary findings of modern Western science.
Awfully thorough job.
Well, my comment went into the ether along with all those others. I appealed to Dennis not to quit publishing his insightful offerings. He's been a big help to me ever since his original Ezine articles. Theistic addicts are going to denigrate him and try to insult him. It's all they can do. They have no scientific reasoning to back them up. "Ah got faith. To hell with your facts" is their attitude. It's the attitude that is destroying our country right now.
That is hilarious. But no I meant Seitan as the muslins call him. After all Satan is not a biblical figure. In genesis there is something about a hissing sound, but satan, no. Do the jews have a satan?
I can wholeheartedly state Seitan is goofld for you. :-) this is not a sponsored broadcast
Nck
If we want to go in the direction of "why atheism?" on the part of Dennis or anyone else, we might ask a few questions.
Why is Dennis angry at what someone said to him? If there is no God, there is no apriori moral code. If there are only concocted moral codes, how could the statement represent anything but an imagined offense? Right and wrong, or matters of Internet etiquette, become entirely arbitrary products of imagination.
So if we are dealing in a godless imaginary moral realm and someone commits an "offense", why not just imagine that it was not substantively offensive. Problem solved. Bot's your uncle. No blog posts, no adrenalin. Only the empty smile of Richard Dawkins.
I have no idea if anything at creation.com is true, but then I really don't know if anything Darwin wrote is true either. People have strong opinions on these matters, but few if any really know as much as they think they do. But if the anti-free speech sentiment keeps rising soon we won't be able to read anything at one or the other, and my guess is that creation.com will be the one that gets wiped out, probably under the guise of some law against offensive or bigoted hate speech.
We wouldn’t even be here discussing all of this had someone not laid a bad, toxic, bogus religion on all of us, enslaving members and diminishing and ruining their lives.
In a bogus religion situation, ministers would be on more of a hotseat than members. They have to teach the stuff and rationalize it against their God-given consciences. Some, obviously, destroy their consciences in the process. That’s the birth of the worst of the bad guys that we constantly expose here.
Religious beliefs and spirituality can actually be such a positive influence in the lives of humans. It’s a shame to see people give up on God and all belief in recovering from one rather intense “shit” religion. Unfortunately, the experience was so bad for most of us that throwing out God with the bathwater seems liberating. It’s OK to throw away the Armstrong God. That anthropomorphic god was a mofo! But, it’s not a bad idea to remain open for the real one.
BB
At 11:43 AM, nck said:
I meant Seitan as the muslins call him.
We must remember that muslins are acceptable to God, unlike those nasty fabric blends that Scripture condemns in Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 22:11.
Byker Bob @
June 10, 2018 at 2:24 PM
"It’s OK to throw away the Armstrong God. That anthropomorphic god was a mofo! But, it’s not a bad idea to remain open for the real one."
______________
Correct. I am a atheist when it comes to a book god. They all have human nature built into them. They get jealous, pissed off, kill others, make threats, etc.
How about the concept of 'God' is something you and I cannot know? Not meant to know. Doesn't need to be worshiped or have his ass kissed just to remain in his favor.
This 'energy' known as God doesn't need you to acknowledge its existence. This 'energy' creates energy that later becomes human. In other words, we are a extension of God who placed us on this earth to live not one life, but many. Energy cannot be destroyed it just changes form. When you die your energy returns to the heavens (universe) from which it came. Then another life cycle starts all over.
This idea of having lived before came to me very early in my life. I can remember this thought all throughout my life. It always bothered me. When I was in the church I recall blaming Satan for the thought. You see, HWA corrupted my intellect with his own church bias programming. He did the thinking for me because I was too lazy to do it myself. The results tormented me.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
-James
"Right and wrong, or matters of Internet etiquette, become entirely arbitrary products of imagination."
NEO
I like your reasoning.
It is my opinion that a problem lies in your use of the word "entirely."
The rules of conduct are not arbitrary. For instance if anyone randomly would interject curses or use of words that might chase Dennis away than that is not only Dennis his problem it is my problem too and perhaps other friends he has made through social interaction. The problem in that sense is far bigger than a personal problem it becomes social.
It is all a figment of the imagination. But you better adhere to the British figment of their imagination to drive left. Or you will die for sure within minutes. Why is their figment of imagination important? Because many people on that island felt it apropriate to give that behavior importance and value.
Is it possible to imagine that first men and women mated out of sheer lust or instinct. Later modern man either created by God or evolved through natural process has proven to posess consiouscness about himself, others and the world around him.
Is it possible that first man through consciousness or experience with women also in posession of consciousness decided that it would have a negative impact on himself and others to just go around and kill the few women around or do as they please. That man had recognized that survival was near impossible alone and only social behavior and adherence to the rules regulating that social behavior would ensure his personal survival, later extending to the tribe.
Is there a rule that said that elderly native americans should or would be left in the wild when they were old and needy. No it was a moral code that was established so that the larger tribe would survive and not be hindered by the feeble.
I fully agree that moral codes of the past might not be apropriate for our modern times.
I mean marriage is not necessary any more for the survival of women and children. Many western nations prove this by divorce rates up to 40 percent and are still among the fittest of nations.
Burqa's might have functions in hot nations protecting from sand and the hormones of men heated by the sun. In sweden burqas are ridiculous and unnecessary part of a moral code that has no function in sweden.
Birth control pills have largely removed the need for rules or moral codes that before ensured the survival of individual and tribe.
On the other hand many rules still have important functions to help us survive and others have been heavily emphasized to reflect modern society. Like prohibitions of discrimination of all kind. Which was not an issue in the 16th century because at that time there was no definition of race and peoples were largely mono cultures with inherent trust amongs their own. Today this trust is speedily enforced through moral codes as reflected in law.
nck
Bob @2:24pm, I agree with everything that you said, though I'm not sure who you believe "the real one" is.
The "orthodox" god, the one who knew before creation whether one would choose life, or choose hell, now that god is a monster. If that was the only choice I'd be an atheist too.
Imagine a god who knew that you would choose hell letting you be born anyway. With the hundred of thousands of eggs every woman has and the millions of sperm there are so many combinations, and god who knows all (supposedly) couldn't find a combination that would choose him when the lost one was conceived? As I said, a monster god there. No wonder people are atheists.
A god who knows all, who is trying to save the world now and failing miserably, who actually ordains all the pain and suffering that's going on, who knows the sinner that's going to hell forever in torment forever. That's the "orthodox" christian god and he/she/it is a monster.
How could any thinking individual believe in such a monster?
The god that H.W.A. taught is closer to the true God imo.
H.W.A. was an egocentric, arrogant ...... Everything that he taught was borrowed from others. Mostly G. G. Rupert, but the hierarchical system of "god's government" was a corrupted version of the Roman Catholic clergy.
No, we weren't to call any man father or reverend, but if you didn't call the top dog Mister (master) then you were in deep excrement.
While I remain a sabbath, feast etc keeper I strive to remove myself of the crap that Armstrong taught. I have not been a member of any cog for over 22 years.
To Dennis, while I disagree with you I respect where you are at because the WCG garbage messed up a lot of people and thousands still worship the clergy class that he built. Anyone who is a member of any of the international organizations are still caught up in Armstrongism whether they admit it or not. Dennis, don't allow the ignorant to frustrate you.
K.M.
"Today this trust is speedily enforced through moral codes as reflected in law."
In the WCG the rules didn't always apply if you were high enough on the food chain, and it's the same in our secular society. At least in the U.S. if you are high enough in the chain the laws can be fudged.
WCG, Armstrongism etc. was/is just as "worldy" as the world. However, that doesn't mean all the teachings were wrong any more than our secular laws are wrong.
Correct teachings misapplied are just as damning as incorrect teachings.
K.M.
KM
That's right. Once you have been in a position to see that it is all a social construct you become free. That's why a lot of people University trained people are "liberal." I am not saying right but at least they see the "scam" of legalist behavior, that is living according to the rules because of the rules.
In the past it was the nobility that granted themselves more freedom than existed within society. Upward mobility of the middle classes has some of them aspire to be like the upper social stratification. This was the very market share of Armstrongism the upward mobile 1950 middle class aspiring to be nobility.
It is a long, arduous and sometimes painful process to attain inward nobility, though it is not impossible to attain it in a lifetime. Outward nobility can be bought in seconds.
nck
One of the problems, KM is that this topic has been throughly digested, discussed, and analyzed for thousands of years. There is so much static from all of humanity’s lead thinkers and teachers, and there are so many agendas (make that “control”), and we can’t forget bias confirmation, meaning that what should be relatively simple has taken on an amazing complexity. Various teachers, even those who keep themselves morally clean, often exhibit simply awful fruits.
To me, reading the Psalms, the Beatitudes, and the Sermon on the Mount, plus the story of the prodigal son, and John 3:16 give the best insights into God’s character. I can’t even imagine how an Armstrongite minister would have responded to the lady taken in adultery, were he the judge rather than Jesus.
In our pursuit of the real God, the best any of us can do is to ask God to reveal Himself to us. We also need to ask that God to help us with the bias confirmation that has been caused by everyone whoever taught us in the past.
BB
The majority of the time it's "christians" who turn people from a belief in god.
Intelligence and education imo have little to do with it. Just google "list of christians in science and technology", there are more of them than most are willing to admit. There are ignorant christians and there are ignorant atheists.
My daughter has a PhD in Immunology and Microbial Pathogenesis, she said all her biology classes convinced her even more than church that there had to be a designer.
I'll never knock an atheist because I don't know the things they went through to get there, but once one starts acting as if belief in god is something an ignorant person does, then I really have to question their intelligence.
Have they actually studied how fermions and bosons, electrons or protons, matter or anti-matter act?
It's an amazingly complex and systematic universe that we live in. God? Chance? Are they really even odds?
K.M.
B.B.
Herbert started out teaching against organized religion, but when small fellowships that "he" supposedly formed quit sending him money, he claimed they left the "true church". This is when he decided to build a college to train "yes" men. He needed men, faithful to the ones writing their paycheck, to keep his "work" under control.
It's sad that he wasn't interested in bringing people to Christ, his goal was to bring people to his work. Yes, his work was a man, clergy, organization worshipping cult.
Mind you, I still believe a lot of what was taught in the WCG, but none of it originated with Herb. G.G. Rupert was never given any credit, and I'm sure he learned what he taught from others.
Exposing the Skeletons in the SDA Closet is an interesting read.
If the bible is true, there is a God. We know that God is neither male nor female so forgive my use of the masculine pronoun, he isn't the God of Armstrongism, nor is he the God of Catholicism or Protestantism. The biblical God is seeking a personal relationship with his creation not an organizational relationship.n
In my opinion the biggest problem with the new WCG/GCI is their attempts to be "orthodox".
One doesn't need to fall in line with orthodox christianity to be a christian. A three personality god who knew who would be in hell before he created anything?
No thanks!
K.M.
I have a question for Claire. Since you apparently are part of Grace Communion International I would have thought by now you would have apologized for the hurt and anger you caused. Isn't that what grace-filled Christians do? Or, are you a nominal "Christian" who doesn't care?
Judging from her comments Claire is a fan of "Grace Anatomy" not "Grace Communion".
nck
An addition to my 1:43 comment on "morality" as a construct.
Some preliminary suggestive research but interesting nonetheless.
https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2015/11/07/matthew-22-39?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/religionandaltruismmatthew2239
nck
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