Abusive ministers!
I have been in the church of God for almost 50 years and my heart still breaks whenever I see a minister who bullies the members of his congregation.
Of course, once in a while, a congregation will stand up to this type of false shepherd and throw him out. And, even though such a cleansing action is sad and unpleasant, it is necessary!
I have often wondered why a bully would even want to be a pastor! I mean, why do these men spend time with people week after week — people they don't respect — people they see as ignorant children.
They find it almost impossible to see any good in their parishioners. They love to point out their deficiencies.
And I marvel that sometimes the person who brings the most drama into a church is the pastor!
Over the years, I have discovered some reasons for this social phenomenon.
Many times, these men have low self-esteem. They are miserable in their jobs. They had dysfunctional childhoods. They are in unhappy marriages with neurotic wives. Their marriages are filled with constant bickering. Their children reject them.
And, so many times, they refuse to accept blame for anything. Their misery is always someone else’s fault. Never theirs.
The only thing they have to cling to — the one thing that gives them validation and self-importance — is their title: Pastor! Sometimes, this title is the only good thing in their lives. And it’s not that good!
I always rejoice when i see a congregation that gets to the point where they say, “Enough!” And get rid of the abuser.
Proverbs 22:10 says that, if you throw out the scorner, strife will cease.
by Wes White
48 comments:
Abusive pastors don't see themselves as a pastor - they see themselves as a sheriff. It's not a matter of caring for the "sheep". It's a matter of ensuring the sheep follow and do what they are being told to do.
In COG-land, the abusive culture was fueled by Armstrong's policies directly. It was Armstrong who would not allow congregations to remove abusive pastors. It was Armstrong who took the word of the minister over the member as a measure of policy. How did Pack get as far as he got in Worldwide before going rogue? Because he was permitted to do so in the culture of the Armstrong Churches of God. Everyone knew there was a problem. Nobody did anything about it except move Pack through the circuits. Abusive pastors were fueled by policies that favored abuse, not servant leadership.
The question is, how was it that so many abusive pastors were picked and prospered in the Armstrong era and in the splinters today? And why is it so many still put up with the abuse? I think the answer was in a previous comment from a Pack insider. They don't want to see their lives turned upside down any further than it is, so the only thing they can do is sit and take it, in their minds, because any rebellion of the abusive pastor will only lead to disfellowshipment and shunning.
Top down, hierarchy without any elected accountability is what causes this.
The customers are the ultimate consumers here and they are the ones being served, and ultimately should have power to "fire" their "servants". This is how things work in the real world, doesn't it??
There would be a whole different mindset of the ministers if their pay was based on performance, and their office was dependent upon an election, to be held on a regular basis.
In the SDA church, all vested members get to vote for their council. The council then votes on who will be elders and deacons. They also vote on who will be the paid Pastor, or to renew his contract. All ministers of the SDA church in the USA are paid exactly the same. The council completely controls the local funds as well. This process happens every two years.
The congregation also votes on who will represent the congregation to their regional conference (I believe there are about 7 in the USA). The Regional conferences vote on who will be the USA delegate, and all of them vote on who will be the overall president of the organization.
I can pick on the SDAs, but their structure is found in other denominations in a similar fashion, and ultimately, the MEMBER has a voice and participation, and can always "vote with their feet" or monetary contributions without the fear of "hell fire damnation" .
Problems still exist in all human organizations of course, but are greatly improved over strict top down hierarchical and centralized planned collectives like most of the COGS are. Local monetary control is also vital in this as well.
If a Pastors pay is connected directly to his local service, the attitudes will definitely change.
Pastors tend to become abusive when the members do not respect them or submit to their authority. The government in the Church is of extreme importance and we as members are to submit to it. Even if the minister is wrong in what he says, God will stand by him until it is corrected. We must submit to that.
Who let Dave Pack lose ? The so called Goverment of God on earth now is meaningless before Jesus Christ has separated the wheat from the chaff.
"Pastors tend to become abusive when the members do not respect them or submit to their authority. The government in the Church is of extreme importance and we as members are to submit to it. Even if the minister is wrong in what he says, God will stand by him until it is corrected. We must submit to that."
NO PERSON should ever be expected, under any circumstances, whether in church or in family, whether as an adult or as a child, to submit to abuse or abusive authority. If I didn't know better or have heard such bull my whole life, I would have thought you a troll.
You made another claim that "God will stand by" a minister who is wrong in what he says. Absolute and complete rubbish. God does not stand by abuse. God does not stand by a wrong - whether by a family leader or a church leader. Your words are abhorrent and your words are putrid trash.
NO ONE should ever have to "Submit to that". I will say it again as I have said over and over again. If you are in an abusive relationship, you do NOT have to take it. You do not have to cower and succumb to the idiocy that has infected Armstrongism for ages.
11:42 Anonymous, I could write a lot more, but in this comment thread, I won't. I might just write a full article on this topic. With that said. I condemn your words and your language and your text in this post in the strongest possible terms. I only hope you're just trolling. But I doubt it.
Might I suggest two links to put a dent in what is obvious severe brainwashing.
https://rickthomas.net/a-few-signs-of-spiritual-abuse-from-a-pastor/
https://churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/155481-10-ways-to-spot-spiritual-abuse.html
It is not our right, as members under authority, to remove ministers or those above us. God looks at our hearts to determine our intent. If we trust God then we know God will correct the person in due time. Our entrance into the kingdom is dependant upon how we submit to authority in this age. We need to be able to say we fought the good fight, withstood the tests, and were obedient.
Anon 12:51 and 1:13, you're shittin' me, right? Now I see why the CoG's still exist. It's the stupid sheep that are addicted to abuse.
And the beat goes on.
11:42 and 1:13
It is obvious that you both are thoroughly brainwashed, to believe you have no rights.
Unless you were born in the church, you chose to be there, right? You may also choose to leave. The only things holding you there are lies that you believe.
Are you going to “jump off a cliff” because you are told to, knowing they are wrong? Are you going to “drink the Koolaid”? I sure hope not.
Anon 12:51 and 1:13,
Sorry, but your arguments were litigated against in the Nazi Nuremberg trials after World War 2. Obeying orders is NOT an excuse to have blind conscience towards ones actions, or accountability.
God will correct it?? How is one not to know that he is God's instrument in helping to correct it! God does use human agency for his will , does he not??
"A horrible and shocking thing has happened in the land. The prophets prophecy falsely, and the priests rule by their own authority. My people love it so, but what will you do in the end?"(Jeremiah 5:30-31)
The only "authority" any of us is under religiously speaking is Jesus Christ. He is the vine, we are the branches. He is the head, we are the body. That means ALL of us collectively, not just those who claim to be shepherds or ministers(from the Latin, meaning servant). They watch over (tend) "among" God's sheep, meaning that they are also "sheep". They are not to "lord"(exercise authority over, overpower, master) it over the flock, but to lead by example.(1 Peter 5:1-3) Any "minister" who steps outside these clear parameters is in violation of scripture. Any "sheep" who allows this is also in clear violation of scripture. Those who minister among us are supposed to keep watch, and to point others to the chief shepherd, which is Jesus Christ.(1 Peter 5:4) This is not a hierarchy, where superiors exercise authority over others as the gentiles do. This is brethren caring for and watching out for other brethren.(Matthew 20:25-27; Matthew 23:8) We "submit" ourselves to others only within these conditions, and if a minister is "wrong", it is our job to discern that and to obey God rather than men.(Acts5:29; Acts 17:11; Revelation 2:2) God does not appreciate us putting other "gods" before Him after all, and this is essentially what we are doing if we follow others when they depart in attitude, action, or teaching from Him. Any "minister" or "government" or "church" or "system" that would teach otherwise does not truly reflect the teachings of God, and is not "God's government". They are simply a continuation of the system we are supposed to come out of.(Revelation 18:4)
Concerned Sister
Here is a mirror for Wes White from the bible.
Luke 15:10 NASB — “In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Why is everyone so angry? Paul was killing christians and he repented to become one of the greatest leaders in Christianity!
Pray for these men to repent. Give them the hope thatmlies within you. This site is so full of evil comments towards sinners.
Jesus said love your enemies. Do good to those that hate you.
Why do you people not see that in attacking of a sinner you are showing your own hypocrisy in disobeying Jesus?
Amen! Well said sister!š
Concerned Sister is my spirit animal.
Nicely balanced 626 I hesitate to get into this kind of post because of fueling the projection many engage in because of their own experiences with other ministers. People can change whether it through religious repentance or just going through stages of life and looking back. I know a number of ministers, and members, who will tell you they are not the same either overly zealous or self righteous person they once found themselves to be. There are a lot of "glittering generalities" when it comes to releasing the anger of individual experiences on a whole profession. The medical profession, and all professions, suffers the same thing from patients I am sure. "That Doctor" becomes "All Doctors"
Looking back, as said:
"Many times, these men have low self-esteem. They are miserable in their jobs. They had dysfunctional childhoods. They are in unhappy marriages with neurotic wives. Their marriages are filled with constant bickering. Their children reject them.
And, so many times, they refuse to accept blame for anything. Their misery is always someone else’s fault. Never theirs."
...sounds like a lot of members in WCG I knew too. :)
And too... I did not know anyone in college who came to the WCG as an outlet to their need to bully and be in charge. Admit it or not, the church message of the "Wonderful World Tomorrow", the Kingdom of God on Earth, The Second Coming and resurrections to accommodate all the categories of people who either did or will have exposure to "the truth" and their story will end nicely, was very appealing. All the appropriate scriptures were mined, cobbled and proof texted to draw only one conclusion that made the concept of "The True Church" credible.
It was only after some got into the ministry did the role, and it was a role, got into their heads and like it or not, there are the appropriate scriptures in the NT to put a minister in a positon one might not ordinarily have wanted or assumed. Just the qualifications, in scripture, were enough to drive a real human being underground or come out swinging.
Aside from "Become ye there PERFECT as your Father in heaven is perfect" and whether it means perfect or mature is moot, is a bit more than I could ever handle. Some must have thought they were. Those were the troublemakers! lol.
Try this on for size as demanded in scripture. I tried and it was expected of myself of course by others, but it's a lifetime struggle just as with any member might experience in theirs. The difference is that, I found, when a member made mistakes, it was a matter of forgiveness and keep moving. When a pastor does, it's out you go and a lifetime of vilification and finger pointing. That's just my experience. Your experience may vary.
1. A pastor must be blameless (Well that's the end of that! lol Blameless is a tough faƧade to uphold or sincere life to lead. Those who think they do are annoying :)
Blameless means that the pastor must be someone of good reputation or character. When considering the person, are they sober and not a drunkard, of good behavior and not a fighter, or in ministry for selfish reasons? When their name is mentioned, do people immediately think that this person is known for being a hothead, a drunk, or a fighter? Or, do people think of them as being someone who never really seems to get upset or offensive about anything? Do they let their moderation be known to all men (Philippians 4:5)?
2. A pastor must be in good standing in his marriage and immediate family
First, the person must be the husband of one wife. This point alone has caused more divisions and splits in churches than any other points for two main reasons. One reason is that some churches interpret this as addressing the person’s gender and marital history. Are they a man? Are women qualified (Genesis 3:16; 1 Timothy 2:8-15). Were they ever divorced? If so, was it before or after salvation? Were they an adulterer or the victim of adultery? What about a person who slept with a woman without ever having a wedding (Genesis 29:15-30; 1 Corinthians 6:12-16)? On the other hand, do they have to be married at all? The simple answer is that if they are saved, are they in right standing Biblically when it comes to marriage? Second, the person must be able to rule over his own household and children (Ephesians 5:25-6:4). The reason is if he cannot rule over or take care of his own house effectively, how will he manage and take care of the church?
con't
3. A pastor must be patient, hospitable, and apt to teach
Patience and hospitality are important in that as the pastor, the person must have the patience to train his flock and do what is necessary to show them he cares so that they will grow in their faith and as a strengthening influence of the local church. Serving and feeding the flock is not an easy task. They must expect that despite their best efforts, some people will make bad decisions and others will experience hardships and need help and instruction at all hours of the day and night.
4. A pastor must be mature and called in his life and in his faith
The pastor cannot effectively lead a flock both practically and spiritually if they do not know what they are doing and God has not called them. This means that they conduct themselves in a way that demonstrates that they are competent adults and grounded in their faith and called by God for this role. Sadly, many churches and pastors see the position as a career choice from the perspective of a position to fill and not as a calling. This can be devastating to a church and destroy the lives of many people. However, this does not mean that a pastor should not be trained for the task that they are undertaking. Some say that they must be a seminary graduate, but they ignore the fact that none of the disciples or greatest pastors ever went to Bible College. They had several years of apprenticeship under the master. While seminary training is good, God’s Word does provide for teaching. However, it is important to all of the church that pastors must know what they are doing so they do not operate from pride and fall into temptation (Ephesians 4:11-14; 2 Timothy 2:1-6; Titus 1:9-11).
5. A pastor must be able to preach
This is where everything comes together in a pastor. Can they communicate the word of God in a way that makes sense, inspires the hearers, and motivates them to want to become like Christ and be part of the ministry effort to others (Ephesians 4)? One note of caution is that many people can teach, but not everyone can preach or profess with knowledge and authority the Word of God. One way to know is to watch when the candidate preaches. Does their sermon seem more like a class with notes or highly structured PowerPoint presentations that guide the flow of the message? Or, do they use the Bible as their text and communicate the message in an expository way, connecting the lines and precepts with reinforcement from other verses and letting the Scriptures speak for themselves to communicate the message? It is not that multimedia presentations are wrong, it’s just that the person should use it to illustrate Scripture, not use the Scripture to illustrate their multimedia lesson. Simply stated, can they communicate practical examples of how the text applies to the lives of the people or do they have to stick to a lesson plan?
Conclusion
When considering someone for the position of pastor, there are several considerations to keep in mind. Some churches have different titles for the same role and may be led by bishops or elders instead of or in addition to a pastor. The Bible says there are at least five qualifications for selecting a pastor. A pastor must be blameless. A pastor must be in good standing in his marriage and immediate family. A pastor must be patient, hospitable, and apt to teach. A pastor must be mature and called in his life and in his faith. Finally, a pastor must be able to preach.
Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-are-five-important-qualifications-of-a-pastor-that-a-search-committee-should-look-for/#ixzz660B3xm29
Dennis- your point number 5 would knock out most pastors
Most give sermons that are boring or so bad, you can’t tell what they are trying to communicate
I still maintain that it is not the members right to remove a minister. "Touch not My anointed ones" Psalm 105:15
I still maintain that it is not the members right to remove a minister. "Touch not My anointed ones" Psalm 105:15
Correct. However, it is each member's responsibility to discern which men claiming to be ministers are in fact anointed. Jesus' sheep hear His voice, and if some fraud falsely claims to be one of God's ministers, the sheep have no duty to follow such a fraud. They cannot "remove" a man from an office he does not hold, but they can and should and must "mark" such a man and shun him.
That "touch not my anointed ones" is pure Priestly/author contrived ass covering and a theological force field around them.
Every kook and charlatan in ministry can hide behind Psalm 105;15
Is it possible for Wes White to name the congregation that got rid of an alleged abusive pastor? Because i find that difficult to believe.
TLA, some poor speakers use Moses and Jeremiah as also poor speakers according to their pleadings and text to stay a poor speaker/teacher. God will back them up. Not easy to prove. lol
They also use the Paul said things "hard to be understood" to justify their own meanderings and musings about and through scripture.
Well Dennis, since you are given over to a reprobate mind I can always leave it up to you to blaspheme God’s Word.
Anonymous said...
Well Dennis, since you are given over to a reprobate mind I can always leave it up to you to blaspheme God’s Word.
November 22, 2019 at 6:56 AM
____________________
Can you prove that the bible is Gods word? I want proof! You people never give testimony that proves the bible is the word of God. You never address this question.
The problem with the Armstrongist ministry stems from their training at Ambassador College (AC). The effects of this training extends to every WCG derived church group where there are AC trained men and women currently at work. AC was not about "recapturing true values" or other platitudes. AC was about a Caste System. It was about the implementation of, care and nurturing of, financing of, the operation of, the requirements of and taking advantage of a Caste System. This system was cloaked under a veneer of heretical, prophecy based religion. The shrewd people could see through the peripheral religion and understand and use to their benefit the core Caste System.
The test of a theory is how well it explains reality. The Caste System concept explains a lot about the WCG and the problems with pastors raised in this blog entry.
Let me put it another way. A sociologist could find out much, much more about Ambassador College by studying the influential phenomenon of the Faculty Locker Room at Big Sandy in the Seventies rather than sitting in some odd Bible class. AC students followed a variety of different curricula, but they all took the implicit course that could be titled "The Faculty Locker Room: Its Nature and Meaning."
656 a reprobate ( commonly known as am open one) mind is necessary to understand the politics between the Priestly caste, the Scribes, the Prophets and Apostles. But I understand your view. It used to be mine too and I taught it.
"Anonymous said...
I still maintain that it is not the members right to remove a minister. "Touch not My anointed ones" Psalm 105:15
November 22, 2019 at 5:00 AM"
Yet you have no problem disfellowshipping one of God's annointed?
If you check the context of Ps. 105:15 you'll note that it's referring to all the children of Israel and the prophets.
Those of you who claim to be ministers are just idiots!
I recall Ron Dart remarking in a sermon, more than 20 years ago, that he thought 90% of speakers shouldn't be. At the time it was quite a controversial statement to say. Since those happier days I have realized through trial and error how right Ron was.
Jesus answer to sinners as to go and sin no more. Even befire they repented.
He asked god to forgive people who had tortured him and were murdering him.
None of the people you rail against have come close to what those men did to Jesus.
You have no excuse, Jesus' example is clear in this matter.
Appreciate your post concerned sister.
Anon 5:00 One finally comes to the understanding that we took someone's word for who was anointed and what it means. I John 2 and particularly 2:26 shows that we who believe Jesus is the Christ and have fruits are the anointed, anointed by the Holy Spirit. Things changed with the New Covenant. We are under Christ not men, though converted and gifted teachers and minister/servants are wonderful things. The COG hierarchy does not facilitate that.
8:35,
We have all killed Christ. The man sleeping with his stepmother in Corinth presumably wasn't doing something "close to what those men did to Jesus", but he was removed from the congregation. There are multiple admonitions to do this and even a method given in Matt. 18. It was a bad system that hurt people; it's wrong to teach that it cannot be criticized.
"It was a bad system" The "It" means the COG hierarchy.
Blogger The Painful Truth said...
Anonymous said...
Well Dennis, since you are given over to a reprobate mind I can always leave it up to you to blaspheme God’s Word.
November 22, 2019 at 6:56 AM
____________________
Can you prove that the bible is Gods word? I want proof! You people never give testimony that proves the bible is the word of God. You never address this question.
November 22, 2019 at 7:01 AM
What good would that do, painful GOOF?
you wouldn't believe anyways.
For those wanting a little more insight on how hierarchy and structure in the "church" is justified, it might be beneficial to read the Catholic Catechism on the sacrament of holy orders. A google search will bring this up. While the cogs would deny any link between them and Catholicism, I have found it instructive in researching some of this stuff to go to the horse's mouth so to speak. Many of the same scriptural justifications have been used by both institutions either directly or indirectly. Years ago a minister gave a bible study at the Feast in which he equated the ministry to the old testament priesthood and implied they had the authority of Aaron's rod. I have heard others refer to those in the O.T. priesthood as "ministers", thus indirectly equating the modern day cog ministry with the Old Testament priesthood without coming out and directly saying it. The reasoning being that the Old Testament priesthood was transferred to the priesthood of Melchizedek, which they represent.
And while we never had a "Pope", we did for many years have a "Pastor General". The root word for the English word pastor is from the Latin, meaning shepherd. The word "general" traces back to the Latin generalis, meaning "relating to all, of a whole class, generic"... and according to The Online Etymology Dictionary which is where I found this information, from the 14th century the word was used in forming titles with the sense "having general authority or jurisdiction, chief." So, in other words we gave the leader of our church, or rather he gave himself the title of "Chief Shepherd", which is blasphemous since we only have one "Chief Shepherd", which is Jesus Christ. (1Peter 5:4) Those who continue to so vehemently defend our system of church hierarchy would do well to dig a little deeper and do some research on these matters.
Concerned Sister
Anonymous Anonymous said...
...And while we never had a "Pope", we did for many years have a "Pastor General". The root word for the English word pastor is from the Latin, meaning shepherd. The word "general" traces back to the Latin generalis, meaning "relating to all, of a whole class, generic"... and according to The Online Etymology Dictionary which is where I found this information, from the 14th century the word was used in forming titles with the sense "having general authority or jurisdiction, chief." So, in other words we gave the leader of our church, or rather he gave himself the title of "Chief Shepherd", which is blasphemous since we only have one "Chief Shepherd", which is Jesus Christ. (1Peter 5:4) Those who continue to so vehemently defend our system of church hierarchy would do well to dig a little deeper and do some research on these matters.
Concerned Sister
November 22, 2019 at 3:44 PM
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I agree with you Concerned Sister and am glad you, like myself and others, are coming to a similar conclusion! I shared my research on the same issue on another blogpost of Banned by HWA! recently (see Adult Sabbath School: "And Yes Brethren...I am an Apostle"
11.42 AM/1.13 PM is a troll. He's been making similar comments for years.
Get a life 11.42!
The outrageous hypocrisy on here is shocking.
@1:15 ~ Who is being hypocritical, and howso?
BB
BB
For anyone harmed by a miniatet they should follow Jesus instructions in Matt 18.
Then there is the verses teachings against gossip.
Then there's the example of Jesus... Who didn't rail against the worst of the worst... Satan himself. But instead taught return good to those who do evil to you. Love your enemies and pray for them. He even said he does good for them.
I will repeat because I fell you are all thick headed and have hearts of stone.
Jesus said God is kind to ungrateful and evil men.
If you believe what you teach and agree that jesus' teachings are good then you must follow them.
Otherwise you are a hypocrite.
Anon 1:30,
Surely you know Jesus was not sio kind to the money changers. Surely you7 know he called various people serpents, lawless, Satan, hypocrites, whitened sepulchres, of your father the devil,etc.
Now, you are comfortable to call people hypocrites, thick headed, and having hearts of stone (unconverted) based on what seems to be your one-sided cherry picked beliefs on criticism.
It is all very peculiar.
This seems very peculiar to me.
OK, I think I understand where you are coming from, 1:30. Thanks for clarifying. And, if the original WCG had been a continuation of the first century Christian church, and if the splinters were continuing that, then everything you listed would apply. That would be the correct Christian way to handle them.
The problem is, that is not the case. So, we treat the teachers of Armstrongism as the false prophets and heretics that they are. We identify these people, and warn Christians and others against them so so that they realize that you should not submit to them or have your life ruined by following their insanity. In fact, it would be hypocritical for us to do otherwise. It's what you do in the case of anyone who is not what they claim to be.
I don't believe you are a hypocrite, either. I believe you are reacting in accordance with your perspective. As we are with ours.
BB
I deeply hope you're being sarcastic...
Why do you try to change the identity of someone to justify your evil behavior toward them?
There are no pharisees, money changers or tax collectors that are in gods church.
You want to treat these people bad. You want to hurt them. This is the evil in your hearts coming out plainly in your words.
I did not change their identity, I discerned it. You can call it gods church all you want (I see you used a lower case "g", which is actually appropriate). The fact is they are anything but God's Church. I could agree that there are some well intentioned people in that church who are sincere in wanting to serve God, but don't realize that they are deceived, and that God looks on the heart, and will one day show them a better way, but people like HWA, GTA, Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, and the others we discuss and hold accountable here are like the devil incarnate.
BB
Jesus loves evil people before they repent and wants them to change. Have you judged all these men incapable of repentence? Do you condemn them? If you don't preach the same as Jesus you are against Jesus.
A woman was caught in the very act of a sin. By Gods own instructions she was worthy of death.
You neither call for death from the law nor preach peace and forgiveness. Your words are full of deception.
Hey, some of my best friends are lesbians. It's not my job to judge or sentence people, and I'm not one of the guys who have called for all the ACOG ministers to go to hell. I do expose the hurt and the pain that those claiming to be "God's Ministers" have needlessly inflicted upon others, and still do. We've got ministers who post here regularly that actually have repented, yet everybody seems to want to throw peanuts at them!
I''ve even considered the possibility that HWA might have repented of his false teachings, and instructed Joe Tkach Sr. to make the changes, only to have the majority of the church either leave or rebel against the man annointed by HWA to be his successor.
I've often said that if God teaches HWA a lesson in humility in the Kingdom and has him polishing the Pope's sandals, I'll help him.
You've picked the wrong straw man.
Anon 1:25,
Who said anything about their ability to repent? Your responses are strange, but I suppose it is because you believe the ministry was specially anointed. I see no reason why you believe this and multiple reasons not to believe such a thing.
Your choice, I suppose...
Nevertheless, your responses are strange as I see you castigating those that criticize people who hurt others and ignoring those hurt by these men.
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