Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
When you are on the dole, having lost your livelihood, on what planet or in what alternative reality is a $1,200 relief check actually "increase"?
People without a source of income are going to need that $120 for food, for gasoline to get to interviews, and perhaps even for their Covid 19 medications.
The ACOGs should be disbursing Third Tithe relief to their unemployed members!
The stimulus check is not agricultural. It is also not increase - it represents an attempt to mitigate a loss. To tithe on it would be like tithing on third tithe. Not a good principle.
I must ask do these money grubbers with their hands out ever do what they want brethren to do? Do they take a cut in salary, NO they don't. Do they ever stop their world hopping vacations oh wait they are visiting the members. The leaders never ever approach the scripture Amos 8:11 the famine of the word. That would mean their unending money train would come to a holt.
Its not income, wages or increase of ant kind. Its free money or an advance on tax return money from next year. (Who knowd which)
Therfore its against Gods commanded tithes to give any of it as a tithe. Feel free to give whatever you want but you are sinning if you declare it a tithe for God.
If your income goes down this year as I suspect it will unless you are selling gold, you should call your ACOG leader, explain your predicament, and demand 10% of your gross decrease as compared to last year's increase, an anti-tithe if you will. The math is really simple. Let's say you earned $75,000 last year utilizing the skill set with which God has blessed you. This year, you are going to receive perhaps 1/3 of that (or $25,000) due to the coronavirus curse. So your decrease will be $50,000. If you've been tithing to Dave Pack, Jerry Flurry, or Bob Thiel, you should put in an official request for 10% of that $50,000 decrease, or $5,000! After all, if you are really a member of "God's True Church", and enthusiastically observant of all the Armstrong doctrines, and never have any thing negative, rebellious, or critical to say about your spiritual leader, then you should be receiving only blessings, increase and no decrease. Either that, or a new tithe algorithm should be applied to take the fiscal ups and downs of your employment history into account, so that you are tithing on the running average of your annual income over a 7 year cycle, much the same as is used to calculate the social security benefits which you are accruing.
Remember, your minister is responsible for guiding you into spiritual and hence financial prosperity! If one or the other is lacking, then he is not properly fulfilling the responsibilities of his job description. He should receive increase on your increase, and share in the decreases which you suffer because of his personal ineptness!
The above diatribe is a presentation brought to you courtesy of Anheiser Busch, brewers of fine Budweiser beer, and the National Broadcorping Castration!
Bob said he tithed (to LCG) when he was out of work. I don't know what he tithed on, perhaps his unemployment payment. But... if you tithed on gross income, and unemployment tax has been deducted, you're getting money back that's been tithed on already! It's like some share dividends - your dividend is from money that has already been taxed, and at a corporate rate. Pre-taxed income, pre-tithed unemployment payment.
The RCG is doing the exact same thing.. Although not openly. This is what they’ve posted in the members part of their website:
Economic Impact Payment Donations
Many members that are U.S. residents have already received or are expecting an Economic Impact payment from the IRS. Those of you who are employed, able and wish to make a special offering to the Work with these funds should please indicate so when making a contribution. Designating it as “special” will help us distinguish it from regular tithes and offerings, including spring Holy Day contributions, when processed in the Business and Accounting Office. Your generosity will help offset the impact of members affected by the pandemic and who are currently unable to give as normal due to economic hardship. We thank you in advance.
_________ And don’t be fooled. The ‘Your generosity will help offset the impact of members affected‘ doesn’t mean unemployed members can ask the RCG for help or the RCG will offer a helping hand in any shape or form.
"Therfore its against Gods commanded tithes to give any of it as a tithe. Feel free to give whatever you want but you are sinning if you declare it a tithe for God.
You are giving to God when you take care of the needs of your family. Those checks are meant to help you do that. I doubt that any COG member is hurting because they can't go to church services but they are because they can't work right now. We can all function fine with-out attending church services so let these controling church orgs. do with-out your tithes. They can find a way to get by with less. We all have to do just that!
BB and NEO are absolutely right - there is no way to justify making someone tithe on this money! Unfortunately, most of the sheep will do exactly that - as soon as the money has been deposited into their accounts. And Armstongites aren't the only ones who will be doing this - try to imagine the windfall that this will entail for Protestant Evangelical ministries! Trump knows his constituency! I wonder how much of this "stimulus" money will make it back to his reelection effort?
In an earlier response I stated my view that the Stimulus Payment does not meet the Old Testament criteria to be tithe-able. While Armstrongism is excessively juridical, there is abundant precedent for church administrators to prescribe legal policy extra biblia. So I don't think the Bible is going to stop anyone in the offshoot churches from proclaiming the Payment subject to tithing. It is a case study in how the Bible can be manipulated.
There's absolutely no way to justify paying tithes to any church organization no matter what circumstances.
The tithe is God's. He gave it to the Levites.
I'd love for anyone to prove that a commanded tithe existed before God gave it to the Levites.
Abram freely gave God a tenth of the spoils of war. It says nothing about him giving tithes on anything else.
Jacob even cut a deal with God, "If you bless me then I will give you a tithe of all". If tithing was a law what do you think that God would do with that request? What if Jacob had said, "If you bless me, then I won't murder, rape or steal"?
That right there should be enough to prove that tithing wasn't a law before Sinai.
"I wonder how much of this "stimulus" money will make it back to his reelection effort?"
Such one sided bullshit. I guess that only conservatives are getting a check. That would be the only way to keep any of the stimulus going to the Democrats.
I'm amazed (not really) how blind someone can be when they have an agenda.
Pero esos $120.00 hay que multiplicarlos por tres (3) si es tu año del tercer diezmo para que los ministros decoren sus casas. A eso hay que agregarle las ofrendas de amor... !!!
km is right about the tithe. There is nothing in the New Testament that remotely suggests Christians are obligated to tithe. Likewise, the Levitical priesthood is made EXTINCT by the New Covenant - EXTINCT! NOTHING to transfer to a Christian ministry. And, even if you could demonstrate that tithing does apply to Christians, the application of the Old Testament principles surrounding tithing is inconsistent with the way these folks teach it. It was CLEARLY based on increase NOT gross income. Biblical tithing has been turned into a way to exploit people and maximize church income - The tithing that these folks practice has NOTHING to do with "giving to God what is God's."
Anonymous 4/18 @ 8:24, Sounds like I hit a nerve! My comments were meant to imply that all of the "tithe" on the stimulus checks that ends up in the hands of these churches will enhance their ability to support their favorite "president" (Trump). I don't have any agenda, but most of these churches clearly do! Surely you can see that as a real possibility?
Something that I wrote to a friend of mine asking about Paul, the Corinthians and tithes.
*****************************
I assume you mean muzzling the ox. I have no problem giving to a ministry if a person feels they are doing them a service, but they do not have the right to demand the tithe. Malachi was written to Israel, not the church. Priests received the tithe, they didn't pay it. We are a Royal Priesthood, we don't tithe. Some will try to claim that Levites paid tithe to the son's of Aaron but that's not true. The son's of Levi received all the tithe, the son's of Aaron were also son's of Levi, God gave the son's of Aaron 10% of all the tithe, the rest went to the other Levites to share. There was no paying tithe involved, it was just how it was divided up among the Levites.
I've told people that if they still feel convicted to tithe the best way to actually give to God is to heed Jesus' words. I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink.
So if one wants to tithe I'd say give to St. Jude, give to Tunnels to Towers, or any other good charity, by helping those truly in need you're giving to Jesus.
HWA's Ambassador trained clergy class has gotten rich off the backs of people wanting to obey God and the bible is full of condemnation of "shepherds" feeding themselves instead of the flock.
@anon6:52: Which they do! They keep a close eye on what you ‘give’ to the church..
You even get an annual statement from them with your ‘gifts’ on it. I think in some countries you can use that statement for a tax refund or tax deduction.
10.31 AM So the poster expects ALL the readers to CONSTANTLY use Google translate to understand his comments. Shouldn't he be doing the translating? Who is being lazy? And doesn't Google translate need to know the language being translated? I refuse to jump through his loops.
You need to get off your self righteous highhorse. Its not like he posts here a lot. Either ignore his posts or use our fingers and use Google Translate.
11:23am You are a self righteous jerk. You are the one patronizing, guess what, it doesn't work with the written word, especially when others are able to go back and see who the real patronizing idiot is.
You are the first, and only one that I've ever seen bitch about someone posting in another language. No wonder we in the U.S. are thought of as arrogant by the world when a fool like you thinks a blog that's read throughout the world must only be in english.
Come on! Pedro is one of the good guys! If you take the time to click on his name and read his profile, you'll find that he's got his own dissident blog for our Spanish-speaking compadres.
A stranger is often a friend that you just haven't yet met!
And to extend what km and Miller Jones wrote re Abraham giving a tithe to the king-priest of Salem and Jacob tithing to God. I believe the former was a one time event of animals and food not money. And the latter (Jacob) would’ve given God the same in tithes via burning them up in sacrifice to God.
2.26 PM If we were talking to me face to face, you would probably have me on the defensive. And if you yelled loud enough, you might have succeeded in knocking out my mental defences. But such verbal attacks on the mind is murder. It is murder since the human mind is man's tool of survival. I suggest you stop "cheating" with your pathological verbal attacks, and play by the civil rules of using persuasion. It's what Christ did!
This stuff gets rooted deep. Xenophobia was always a part of Armstrongism, partially due to the British Israelism which was one of the anchors to which the cult was tethered. It even ran deeper than prejudice against the so-called "non-Israelites". I once heard a story regarding a man who was known to have many of his children attend and graduate from AC. A daughter was accepted at Bricket Wood. His parting words to her were "Don't you dare marry one of those Limeys!"
My experience with these Chowder Heads started on my return from a tour of duty in Vietnam as an Army Helicopter Pilot. That was October of 1970 and all I could dream of was my beautiful wife and The Holidays with my family up in Pennsylvania. The reality was that she had fallen under the spell of a teenage girl who was the wife of a Flight School classmate. As insidious as a snake the well meaning mother of this girl indoctrinated my lovely wife and her Vivacious daughter slowly informed them that they should be changing to a healthy diet and that Christmas was no less pagan than Halloween. I'm sure the Armstrong's Minions gave no thought to the devastation this better life had on thousands of families. Well I tried to see the attraction but another soldier whose wife had found the "Truth" some years back told me they are brainwashed. He said "your wife will hide this from you as long as she is skeptical but when she is afraid not to believe you will have to decide if you're willing to every weekend the rest of you time on this planet ruined by people who think they entitled to tell you what to do with every aspect of your daily life. What I noticed was even after they see these charlatans for what they are the victims have a hard time turning away from what blinded them so long ago. I remember a prominent builder in Dallas asked the what his 3rd Tithe portion would be for a year. Folks in Pasadena thought and prayed about it and asked him to build them 3 houses to completion and deed the property to WWCOG. I could write a book but it is all I can do to keep from hating the whole train wreck Garner Ted and Herbert W Armstrong created. Worse than Drugs. Rocket J
43 comments:
Who's the hippie?
When you are on the dole, having lost your livelihood, on what planet or in what alternative reality is a $1,200 relief check actually "increase"?
People without a source of income are going to need that $120 for food, for gasoline to get to interviews, and perhaps even for their Covid 19 medications.
The ACOGs should be disbursing Third Tithe relief to their unemployed members!
BB
The stimulus check is not agricultural. It is also not increase - it represents an attempt to mitigate a loss. To tithe on it would be like tithing on third tithe. Not a good principle.
I must ask do these money grubbers with their hands out ever do what they want brethren to do? Do they take a cut in salary, NO they don't. Do they ever stop their world hopping vacations oh wait they are visiting the members. The leaders never ever approach the scripture Amos 8:11
the famine of the word. That would mean their unending money train would come to a holt.
Its not income, wages or increase of ant kind. Its free money or an advance on tax return money from next year. (Who knowd which)
Therfore its against Gods commanded tithes to give any of it as a tithe. Feel free to give whatever you want but you are sinning if you declare it a tithe for God.
"Who's the hippie?"
Looks like Bob Thiel after he stops taking his homeopathic pills.
If your income goes down this year as I suspect it will unless you are selling gold, you should call your ACOG leader, explain your predicament, and demand 10% of your gross decrease as compared to last year's increase, an anti-tithe if you will. The math is really simple.
Let's say you earned $75,000 last year utilizing the skill set with which God has blessed you. This year, you are going to receive perhaps 1/3 of that (or $25,000) due to the coronavirus curse. So your decrease will be $50,000. If you've been tithing to Dave Pack, Jerry Flurry, or Bob Thiel, you should put in an official request for 10% of that $50,000 decrease, or $5,000! After all, if you are really a member of "God's True Church", and enthusiastically observant of all the Armstrong doctrines, and never have any thing negative, rebellious, or critical to say about your spiritual leader, then you should be receiving only blessings, increase and no decrease. Either that, or a new tithe algorithm should be applied to take the fiscal ups and downs of your employment history into account, so that you are tithing on the running average of your annual income over a 7 year cycle, much the same as is used to calculate the social security benefits which you are accruing.
Remember, your minister is responsible for guiding you into spiritual and hence financial prosperity! If one or the other is lacking, then he is not properly fulfilling the responsibilities of his job description. He should receive increase on your increase, and share in the decreases which you suffer because of his personal ineptness!
The above diatribe is a presentation brought to you courtesy of Anheiser Busch, brewers of fine Budweiser beer, and the National Broadcorping Castration!
BB
Looks like Bob Thiel
Bob said he tithed (to LCG) when he was out of work. I don't know what he tithed on, perhaps his unemployment payment. But... if you tithed on gross income, and unemployment tax has been deducted, you're getting money back that's been tithed on already!
It's like some share dividends - your dividend is from money that has already been taxed, and at a corporate rate. Pre-taxed income, pre-tithed unemployment payment.
#8:42AM
The RCG is doing the exact same thing.. Although not openly. This is what they’ve posted in the members part of their website:
Economic Impact Payment Donations
Many members that are U.S. residents have already received or are expecting an Economic Impact payment from the IRS. Those of you who are employed, able and wish to make a special offering to the Work with these funds should please indicate so when making a contribution. Designating it as “special” will help us distinguish it from regular tithes and offerings, including spring Holy Day contributions, when processed in the Business and Accounting Office.
Your generosity will help offset the impact of members affected by the pandemic and who are currently unable to give as normal due to economic hardship. We thank you in advance.
_________
And don’t be fooled. The ‘Your generosity will help offset the impact of members affected‘ doesn’t mean unemployed members can ask the RCG for help or the RCG will offer a helping hand in any shape or form.
"Therfore its against Gods commanded tithes to give any of it as a tithe. Feel free to give whatever you want but you are sinning if you declare it a tithe for God.
April 17, 2020 at 6:39 PM"
Please elaborate on "God's commanded tithes".
Thanks in advance.
km
You are giving to God when you take care of the needs of your family. Those checks are meant to help you do that. I doubt that any COG member is hurting because they can't go to church services but they are because they can't work right now. We can all function fine with-out attending church services so let these controling church orgs. do with-out your tithes. They can find a way to get by with less. We all have to do just that!
No mercy, no love, no outgoing concern and absolutely no, how can I help you? Strictly a one way street.
the so called "stimulus check" is a refundable tax credit....the return of tax money you've paid to the government...
if you tithe on the gross, that money has already been tithed on...
get the word out to the leaders.....
And don't forget second tithe! And is it your third tithe year?
BB and NEO are absolutely right - there is no way to justify making someone tithe on this money! Unfortunately, most of the sheep will do exactly that - as soon as the money has been deposited into their accounts. And Armstongites aren't the only ones who will be doing this - try to imagine the windfall that this will entail for Protestant Evangelical ministries! Trump knows his constituency! I wonder how much of this "stimulus" money will make it back to his reelection effort?
Pack has decided to use "Common Core" math, which comes out to be $1700 tithe for your $1200 check!
In an earlier response I stated my view that the Stimulus Payment does not meet the Old Testament criteria to be tithe-able. While Armstrongism is excessively juridical, there is abundant precedent for church administrators to prescribe legal policy extra biblia. So I don't think the Bible is going to stop anyone in the offshoot churches from proclaiming the Payment subject to tithing. It is a case study in how the Bible can be manipulated.
There's absolutely no way to justify paying tithes to any church organization no matter what circumstances.
The tithe is God's. He gave it to the Levites.
I'd love for anyone to prove that a commanded tithe existed before God gave it to the Levites.
Abram freely gave God a tenth of the spoils of war. It says nothing about him giving tithes on anything else.
Jacob even cut a deal with God, "If you bless me then I will give you a tithe of all". If tithing was a law what do you think that God would do with that request? What if Jacob had said, "If you bless me, then I won't murder, rape or steal"?
That right there should be enough to prove that tithing wasn't a law before Sinai.
km
"I wonder how much of this "stimulus" money will make it back to his reelection effort?"
Such one sided bullshit. I guess that only conservatives are getting a check. That would be the only way to keep any of the stimulus going to the Democrats.
I'm amazed (not really) how blind someone can be when they have an agenda.
UCG's official position is that the stimulus check does not need to be tithed on.
Pero esos $120.00 hay que multiplicarlos por tres (3) si es tu año del tercer diezmo para que los ministros decoren sus casas. A eso hay que agregarle las ofrendas de amor... !!!
6:11, the world would be a far better place if more people imitated that particular hippie!
BB
km is right about the tithe. There is nothing in the New Testament that remotely suggests Christians are obligated to tithe. Likewise, the Levitical priesthood is made EXTINCT by the New Covenant - EXTINCT! NOTHING to transfer to a Christian ministry. And, even if you could demonstrate that tithing does apply to Christians, the application of the Old Testament principles surrounding tithing is inconsistent with the way these folks teach it. It was CLEARLY based on increase NOT gross income. Biblical tithing has been turned into a way to exploit people and maximize church income - The tithing that these folks practice has NOTHING to do with "giving to God what is God's."
Anonymous 4/18 @ 8:24,
Sounds like I hit a nerve! My comments were meant to imply that all of the "tithe" on the stimulus checks that ends up in the hands of these churches will enhance their ability to support their favorite "president" (Trump). I don't have any agenda, but most of these churches clearly do! Surely you can see that as a real possibility?
Pedro
Not everyone can speak Italian, so please post in English. Enjoy your spaghetti.
Something that I wrote to a friend of mine asking about Paul, the Corinthians and tithes.
*****************************
I assume you mean muzzling the ox. I have no problem giving to a ministry if a person feels they are doing them a service, but they do not have the right to demand the tithe. Malachi was written to Israel, not the church. Priests received the tithe, they didn't pay it. We are a Royal Priesthood, we don't tithe. Some will try to claim that Levites paid tithe to the son's of Aaron but that's not true. The son's of Levi received all the tithe, the son's of Aaron were also son's of Levi, God gave the son's of Aaron 10% of all the tithe, the rest went to the other Levites to share. There was no paying tithe involved, it was just how it was divided up among the Levites.
I've told people that if they still feel convicted to tithe the best way to actually give to God is to heed Jesus' words. I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink.
So if one wants to tithe I'd say give to St. Jude, give to Tunnels to Towers, or any other good charity, by helping those truly in need you're giving to Jesus.
HWA's Ambassador trained clergy class has gotten rich off the backs of people wanting to obey God and the bible is full of condemnation of "shepherds" feeding themselves instead of the flock.
km
It makes no sense for the RCG to ask members to mark their contributions "special" unless they keep records of members tithing history.
@anon6:52: Which they do! They keep a close eye on what you ‘give’ to the church..
You even get an annual statement from them with your ‘gifts’ on it. I think in some countries you can use that statement for a tax refund or tax deduction.
Italian????????????????? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
I guess you are too lazy to use google translate. His response is perfect!
10.31 AM
So the poster expects ALL the readers to CONSTANTLY use Google translate to understand his comments. Shouldn't he be doing the translating? Who is being lazy? And doesn't Google translate need to know the language being translated?
I refuse to jump through his loops.
You need to get off your self righteous highhorse. Its not like he posts here a lot. Either ignore his posts or use our fingers and use Google Translate.
12.21 PM
Your patronizing might psych people out in real life, but it doesn't work with the written word.
11:23am You are a self righteous jerk. You are the one patronizing, guess what, it doesn't work with the written word, especially when others are able to go back and see who the real patronizing idiot is.
You are the first, and only one that I've ever seen bitch about someone posting in another language. No wonder we in the U.S. are thought of as arrogant by the world when a fool like you thinks a blog that's read throughout the world must only be in english.
Amazing stupidity!
Come on! Pedro is one of the good guys! If you take the time to click on his name and read his profile, you'll find that he's got his own dissident blog for our Spanish-speaking compadres.
A stranger is often a friend that you just haven't yet met!
BB
Gary you never cease to amaze me. You don't post many of my more benign comments, yet you post my comment at 2:26pm.
You're a strange one indeed.
km
And to extend what km and Miller Jones wrote re Abraham giving a tithe to the king-priest of Salem and Jacob tithing to God. I believe the former was a one time event of animals and food not money. And the latter (Jacob) would’ve given God the same in tithes via burning them up in sacrifice to God.
2.26 PM
If we were talking to me face to face, you would probably have me on the defensive. And if you yelled loud enough, you might have succeeded in knocking out my mental defences. But such verbal attacks on the mind is murder. It is murder since the human mind is man's tool of survival. I suggest you stop "cheating" with your pathological verbal attacks, and play by the civil rules of using persuasion. It's what Christ did!
11:25pm Can everyone say mental disorder taking place in real time?
Many km ? Many thanks to Gary...
Many km ? Many thanks to Gary...
This stuff gets rooted deep. Xenophobia was always a part of Armstrongism, partially due to the British Israelism which was one of the anchors to which the cult was tethered. It even ran deeper than prejudice against the so-called "non-Israelites". I once heard a story regarding a man who was known to have many of his children attend and graduate from AC. A daughter was accepted at Bricket Wood. His parting words to her were "Don't you dare marry one of those Limeys!"
BB
"Anonymous said...
Many km ? Many thanks to Gary...
April 20, 2020 at 4:57 AM
My advice to the COG is to IMMEDIATELY ORDER and BUY American oil.
You get 40 dollars, the oil and a free barrel that is worth more than the oil.
Historic........... and non prophecies........
. besides the "peak oil" theories.
Nck
My experience with these Chowder Heads started on my return from a tour of duty in Vietnam as an Army Helicopter Pilot. That was October of 1970 and all I could dream of was my beautiful wife and The Holidays with my family up in Pennsylvania. The reality was that she had fallen under the spell of a teenage girl who was the wife of a Flight School classmate. As insidious as a snake the well meaning mother of this girl indoctrinated my lovely wife and her Vivacious daughter slowly informed them that they should be changing to a healthy diet and that Christmas was no less pagan than Halloween. I'm sure the Armstrong's Minions gave no thought to the devastation this better life had on thousands of families. Well I tried to see the attraction but another soldier whose wife had found the "Truth" some years back told me they are brainwashed. He said "your wife will hide this from you as long as she is skeptical but when she is afraid not to believe you will have to decide if you're willing to every weekend the rest of you time on this planet ruined by people who think they entitled to tell you what to do with every aspect of your daily life. What I noticed was even after they see these charlatans for what they are the victims have a hard time turning away from what blinded them so long ago. I remember a prominent builder in Dallas asked the what his 3rd Tithe portion would be for a year. Folks in Pasadena thought and prayed about it and asked him to build them 3 houses to completion and deed the property to WWCOG. I could write a book but it is all I can do to keep from hating the whole train wreck Garner Ted and Herbert W Armstrong created. Worse than Drugs. Rocket J
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