Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Dave Pack Fails Again: What to do when my prophecies fail
28 comments:
TLA
said...
So - he clearly identifies himself as a false prophet. How does he squirm out of it? Of course, the other option is he was stoned - so now we are listening to the words of a stoned man. Then the question becomes is, what drugs is he on? I have read that some of the hallucinatory drugs are now available with a prescription.
Dave has a couple of fascinating and delusional talents. First of all projection. Dave can make what really is his own way of being, doing and saying sound like what others are doing. Secondly, Dave can actually have done what he rails against, openly, blatantly and more than just occasionally , such as failed predictions, as if he wasn't the one that was most guilty of it. Over and over, Dave invalidates himself publicly to those on the outside and openly week after week to his congregants, who again I say, must be brain dead by now and probably deserve, or at least can never say they didn't expect, what dis-illusionment and pain lies ahead for RCG
Dave would have been put to death long ago if he had been around during "Bible Times"
I believe that these folks are caught in a syndrome. They desperately need to believe that the Armstrong prophecy mold was correct and real, so they keep applying it to whatever they see around them, ever more vigorously as they age. The sheer volume of ridiculous sacrifices they have made for their church, and their acceptance of bogus authority over the minutest of personal matters has made this a psychological necessity. Thus, they have lapsed into the imaginary to the extent that the failures of their leaders either don't register, or are simply ignored.
When will Armstrongism have its William Miller moment? Or, will it be a David Koresh moment?
For the rest of the world, this current crisis will be a correction. Many lessons will be learned, which will be applied to all of our daily lives. This contagion is a game-changer. No doubt about it. These lessons involve how we interact socially, what is really important in life, the limitations and efficiency levels of different forms of government, the effect our normal lifestyle has on the environment, the effectiveness of and limitations of the healthcare system, flow of commodities in the supply chain, wants vs needs, attitudes towards the aged and those with preexisting medical conditions, and not the least of which will be the balance of personal rights vs survival of the herd.
The ACOG splinter groups are looking at yet another 1975 lesson. When all is said and done, unfortunately, most of the ministry and members will continue to believe that they are gifted with the understanding of prophecy, in spite of yet another big fail and probably some notable deaths. And if anything, these little cults may actually increase their level of control over the members.
A few hours before Passover I briefly was in contact with a member and ended my email with; have a desirous Passover. The response was with great excitement "we certainly will".
Little did I know after the failure of the predicted return of Christ just a few days earlier, the RCG members were again being stirred up unto excitement for the return of the "desire of all nations" that couldn't happen on any other day but Passover evening 2020.
Long gone are the days when the simplicity of the RCG was holding fast to what you were once taught. 90% of the membership of the RCG has no grasp of what actually is being taught. They hear and understand the highlight of the message, but the relevance and timing and the narrative becomes all new again and this happens over and over again so as to not let anyone, member or minister settle in their mind what they are even to hold onto.
The membership of the RCG are on the most thrilling and exciting rollercoaster ever. No other COG is offering anything close to what the RCG is offering now. It is Jesus Christ coming now unto them only, it is exsousia (power) now, it is ruling over cities now, it is escorting Jesus Christ unto Jerusalem and living in mansions now, it is defeating the man of sin and all enemies of Jesus Christ now. It is receiving and greeting the resurrected bodies of their dead members and HWA and the apostles and other big names now.
There is no getting away from what is now burned into their minds right now. We see from time to time right here minds that wont let go, can't let go and exhibit without shame that which is beyond absurd.
If Dave Pack was present right now he would just repeat what he told his congregation in 2014. He said; "Peter got it all wrong and Paul got it all wrong, why isn't anyone cutting me a break"? So he now believes in his mind there is no accountability to being wrong. Those that believe there is no accountability to being wrong become Charles Manson, Adolf Hitler, jim Jones or David Koresh.
With this mindset as others have said; it ain't going to end well for all concerned.
If your description of the RCG in paragraph 4 is accurate, then the membership is in the final mental frame, totally prepared for a Jim Jones or David Koresh scale disaster. The word intoxication comes to mind, and as we all know, alcohol or chemical substances are not required to produce intoxication. There are no words to describe how sad this is in terms of all its implications.
Your quote of Daviid Pack in paragraph 6 exposes one of his logical fallacies. If Peter got it wrong, and Paul got it wrong, isn't it possible or probable that John got it wrong? (Revelation). Also, Dave has essentially confessed that he himself is at best unreliable, meaning what's the point in following him? People do not follow charismatic leaders for logical reasons. They do cut them abundant slack!
We are in what is known as a stressor right now. It is an international one. Unfortunately, this stressor could act as a catalyst for some of these groups, finally pushing them over the edge, especially as they are in an euphoric state produced by their holy days. Bears further scrutiny.
The sad fact is that some people who may have sincerely wanted to support the very best splinter group around ended up supporting one of the very worst splinter groups around.
Some former Worldwide Church of God people went with David C. Pack and his Restored Church to try to hold on to what Herbert W. Armstrong had taught at the time of his death in 1986. Now, however, David Pack has turned out to be an extremely bad false prophet. David Pack deceived, robbed, and betrayed his followers, and left them destitute. His victims had to cut their huge losses and get away from him.
Those who continue to support David Pack are the accomplices of a false prophet and are guilty of helping him to lie and steal and harm other people. David Pack has infected them with one of the worst cases of prediction addiction around.
Anon. 2:09 said: If Peter got it wrong, and Paul got it wrong, isn't it possible or probable that John got it wrong? (Revelation). Also, Dave has essentially confessed that he himself is at best unreliable, meaning what's the point in following him?
Dave Pack's quote stating that Peter and Paul got it all wrong was specific to timing. But he then went much deeper in bringing Peter and Paul and the rest of the apostles into deeper ignorance. Running parallel to this narrative was the declaration that he himself now understood what was never given unto them (apostles) and as well believe it or not, he understood what Jesus Christ doesn't know now and never knew or understood for some 60 years.
Dave Pack explained that Jesus Christ in the book of John I believe, had given the apostles all things that his Father had revealed unto him. He now moved to Rev. 1:1 where it states this is the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him. So he concluded that Jesus Christ had to wait 60 years to get this revelation because he already said he had given the apostles everything and revelation wasn't known by any of them in 30 AD.
Now it gets deeper and the apostles get lowered some more and Dave Pack elevates himself higher. He now went to Acts 1:7 where Jesus said it was not for you to know the times or seasons. So if you are keeping track, the apostles had no knowledge or for John no understanding of the book of Revelation. Jesus Christ had no knowledge of the book of Revelation for 60 years and now Dave Pack claimed that he and he only as Elijah That Prophet completely understood all things Christ spoke about and the book of Revelation and he now had the power to understand the times and seasons which ...... Jesus Christ doesn't have and a I guess we can conclude the Father no longer has it in his own power.
So 2:09, you are right on by stating that he is unreliable to be followed. As you can see this is much deeper than a failed prediction. This is a failure of judgment, this is a failure of understanding, this is a failure of interpretation and a failure of obeisance.
It is actually quite astonishing to see all the evil people that came out of the Worldwide Church of God and set themselves up as religious leaders and prophets.
If the so-called COGs ever do get in trouble with the world, it might not be over their so-called commandment keeping. Rather, it might be due to the evil behavior of Satan's false prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack.
You don’t get how crazy things are inside the RCG.. David Pack thinks that almost the entire Bible is wrong and that HE DAVID, and HE alone is appointed to explain to people what is true and what it REALLY means.
AKA, David Pack will start rewriting the Bible soon.That’s my prophecy..
There’s about 1,500. Probably even a bit less. I overheard a conversation between ministers during the feast last year. They were talking about feast sites and saying that they even had to close some of the feast sites because of the dropping numbers. Some feast sites apparently didn’t even have more than fifty people going there.
* Packie has a buyer for his estate (maybe Giant Eagle wants to expand) * He puts on these antics to alienate members * There aren't enough tithe dollars to keep the place going * "Sorry, we'll have to sell the Campus" * "See ya..."
Yeah I kind of wonder who gets the loot when he has to close up shop and sell the property. Davey boy may be looking at a sweet retirement when his little kingdom comes crashing down. Hopefully he'll owe so much that the bank and lawyers will grab the cash before he gets to it. But as with any conman I'm sure he has a few bucks stashed away somewhere.
You don’t get how crazy things are inside the RCG.. David Pack thinks that almost the entire Bible is wrong and that HE DAVID, and HE alone is appointed to explain to people what is true and what it REALLY means.
AKA, David Pack will start rewriting the Bible soon.That’s my prophecy..
You are then an official true prophet for the 6 plus year Greatest Story Never Told starring guess who as the name your biblical character man is the official rewrite of the bible.
Hang in there yourself, you are doing a good work!
I've been wondering, who's the real failure? Dozens of you guys were once ministers in the WCG, now several of you don't even believe in God. What if? What if? What if, Dave no longer believes in God either? He'd be smarter than all of you since he's been living the life of a multi-billionaire.
If there's no God, who cares? There's no one to hold you morally accountable.
Is Pack really the fool you all make him out to be? Or does the real fool look back at you in the mirror?
I didn't pronounce a prophecy. Anon. 12:36 am Predicted that Dave Pack would rewrite the bible.
I declared this person a true prophet because Dave Pack has already rewritten the bible in oral form with his 6 1/2 year "Greatest Story Never Told" sermon series.
In this series he has declared himself indispensable and irreplaceable to all future prophetic events. He also has assumed the names or actions of almost all of the future biblical characters.
I declared 12:36 a.m. a true prophet (in jest) already because the oral law in the OT carried as much weight as the written law.
I know what you were saying was in jest, just as I made the silly getting stoned statement, I was not being serious either as I know that you were not literally prophesying. As for Dave Pack, I have to agree with everyone on this blog that he sounds like a real nutter.
5.47 AM Your comment assumes that there is no God. That point has been endlessly debated on this site. If there is a God, and Dave ends up in the lake of fire, who is the fool? If there is a God, do you think that He can't punish Dave before throwing him into the lake of fire? Again, who is the fool. If I end up in the kingdom, and you don't, who is the fool?
4:35am Can you not read? The assumption that there is no God was pointed out in the beginning of my post.
"Dozens of you guys were once ministers in the WCG, now several of you don't even believe in God. What if? What if? What if, Dave no longer believes in God either?"
I wasn't writing to anyone who still believes in God.
28 comments:
So - he clearly identifies himself as a false prophet. How does he squirm out of it?
Of course, the other option is he was stoned - so now we are listening to the words of a stoned man. Then the question becomes is, what drugs is he on?
I have read that some of the hallucinatory drugs are now available with a prescription.
Dave has a couple of fascinating and delusional talents. First of all projection. Dave can make what really is his own way of being, doing and saying sound like what others are doing. Secondly, Dave can actually have done what he rails against, openly, blatantly and more than just occasionally , such as failed predictions, as if he wasn't the one that was most guilty of it. Over and over, Dave invalidates himself publicly to those on the outside and openly week after week to his congregants, who again I say, must be brain dead by now and probably deserve, or at least can never say they didn't expect, what dis-illusionment and pain lies ahead for RCG
Dave would have been put to death long ago if he had been around during "Bible Times"
I believe that these folks are caught in a syndrome. They desperately need to believe that the Armstrong prophecy mold was correct and real, so they keep applying it to whatever they see around them, ever more vigorously as they age. The sheer volume of ridiculous sacrifices they have made for their church, and their acceptance of bogus authority over the minutest of personal matters has made this a psychological necessity. Thus, they have lapsed into the imaginary to the extent that the failures of their leaders either don't register, or are simply ignored.
When will Armstrongism have its William Miller moment? Or, will it be a David Koresh moment?
For the rest of the world, this current crisis will be a correction. Many lessons will be learned, which will be applied to all of our daily lives. This contagion is a game-changer. No doubt about it. These lessons involve how we interact socially, what is really important in life, the limitations and efficiency levels of different forms of government, the effect our normal lifestyle has on the environment, the effectiveness of and limitations of the healthcare system, flow of commodities in the supply chain, wants vs needs, attitudes towards the aged and those with preexisting medical conditions, and not the least of which will be the balance of personal rights vs survival of the herd.
The ACOG splinter groups are looking at yet another 1975 lesson. When all is said and done, unfortunately, most of the ministry and members will continue to believe that they are gifted with the understanding of prophecy, in spite of yet another big fail and probably some notable deaths. And if anything, these little cults may actually increase their level of control over the members.
BB
A few hours before Passover I briefly was in contact with a member and ended my email with; have a desirous Passover. The response was with great excitement "we certainly will".
Little did I know after the failure of the predicted return of Christ just a few days earlier, the RCG members were again being stirred up unto excitement for the return of the "desire of all nations" that couldn't happen on any other day but Passover evening 2020.
Long gone are the days when the simplicity of the RCG was holding fast to what you were once taught. 90% of the membership of the RCG has no grasp of what actually is being taught. They hear and understand the highlight of the message, but the relevance and timing and the narrative becomes all new again and this happens over and over again so as to not let anyone, member or minister settle in their mind what they are even to hold onto.
The membership of the RCG are on the most thrilling and exciting rollercoaster ever. No other COG is offering anything close to what the RCG is offering now. It is Jesus Christ coming now unto them only, it is exsousia (power) now, it is ruling over cities now, it is escorting Jesus Christ unto Jerusalem and living in mansions now, it is defeating the man of sin and all enemies of Jesus Christ now. It is receiving and greeting the resurrected bodies of their dead members and HWA and the apostles and other big names now.
There is no getting away from what is now burned into their minds right now. We see from time to time right here minds that wont let go, can't let go and exhibit without shame that which is beyond absurd.
If Dave Pack was present right now he would just repeat what he told his congregation in 2014. He said; "Peter got it all wrong and Paul got it all wrong, why isn't anyone cutting me a break"? So he now believes in his mind there is no accountability to being wrong. Those that believe there is no accountability to being wrong become Charles Manson, Adolf Hitler, jim Jones or David Koresh.
With this mindset as others have said; it ain't going to end well for all concerned.
The RCG and the ret of the acog landscape only know one thing. That is Herbert W. Armstrong crucified.
WATT: Thank you for an insightful post.
If your description of the RCG in paragraph 4 is accurate, then the membership is in the final mental frame, totally prepared for a Jim Jones or David Koresh scale disaster. The word intoxication comes to mind, and as we all know, alcohol or chemical substances are not required to produce intoxication. There are no words to describe how sad this is in terms of all its implications.
Your quote of Daviid Pack in paragraph 6 exposes one of his logical fallacies. If Peter got it wrong, and Paul got it wrong, isn't it possible or probable that John got it wrong? (Revelation). Also, Dave has essentially confessed that he himself is at best unreliable, meaning what's the point in following him? People do not follow charismatic leaders for logical reasons. They do cut them abundant slack!
We are in what is known as a stressor right now. It is an international one. Unfortunately, this stressor could act as a catalyst for some of these groups, finally pushing them over the edge, especially as they are in an euphoric state produced by their holy days. Bears further scrutiny.
The sad fact is that some people who may have sincerely wanted to support the very best splinter group around ended up supporting one of the very worst splinter groups around.
Some former Worldwide Church of God people went with David C. Pack and his Restored Church to try to hold on to what Herbert W. Armstrong had taught at the time of his death in 1986. Now, however, David Pack has turned out to be an extremely bad false prophet. David Pack deceived, robbed, and betrayed his followers, and left them destitute. His victims had to cut their huge losses and get away from him.
Those who continue to support David Pack are the accomplices of a false prophet and are guilty of helping him to lie and steal and harm other people. David Pack has infected them with one of the worst cases of prediction addiction around.
WATT How many members do you think RCG still has?
km
Anon. 2:09 said: If Peter got it wrong, and Paul got it wrong, isn't it possible or probable that John got it wrong? (Revelation). Also, Dave has essentially confessed that he himself is at best unreliable, meaning what's the point in following him?
Dave Pack's quote stating that Peter and Paul got it all wrong was specific to timing. But he then went much deeper in bringing Peter and Paul and the rest of the apostles into deeper ignorance. Running parallel to this narrative was the declaration that he himself now understood what was never given unto them (apostles) and as well believe it or not, he understood what Jesus Christ doesn't know now and never knew or understood for some 60 years.
Dave Pack explained that Jesus Christ in the book of John I believe, had given the apostles all things that his Father had revealed unto him. He now moved to Rev. 1:1 where it states this is the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him. So he concluded that Jesus Christ had to wait 60 years to get this revelation because he already said he had given the apostles everything and revelation wasn't known by any of them in 30 AD.
Now it gets deeper and the apostles get lowered some more and Dave Pack elevates himself higher. He now went to Acts 1:7 where Jesus said it was not for you to know the times or seasons. So if you are keeping track, the apostles had no knowledge or for John no understanding of the book of Revelation. Jesus Christ had no knowledge of the book of Revelation for 60 years and now Dave Pack claimed that he and he only as Elijah That Prophet completely understood all things Christ spoke about and the book of Revelation and he now had the power to understand the times and seasons which ...... Jesus Christ doesn't have and a I guess we can conclude the Father no longer has it in his own power.
So 2:09, you are right on by stating that he is unreliable to be followed. As you can see this is much deeper than a failed prediction. This is a failure of judgment, this is a failure of understanding, this is a failure of interpretation and a failure of obeisance.
WATT How many members do you think RCG still has?
km
Kevin,
There was someone commenting here recently that attends and they heard a minister say 1500.
I would say that would be the baptized total. Add in the kids and maybe it is 2000.
It is actually quite astonishing to see all the evil people that came out of the Worldwide Church of God and set themselves up as religious leaders and prophets.
If the so-called COGs ever do get in trouble with the world, it might not be over their so-called commandment keeping. Rather, it might be due to the evil behavior of Satan's false prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack.
@WATT
You don’t get how crazy things are inside the RCG.. David Pack thinks that almost the entire Bible is wrong and that HE DAVID, and HE alone is appointed to explain to people what is true and what it REALLY means.
AKA, David Pack will start rewriting the Bible soon.That’s my prophecy..
@anon 4:51PM
There’s about 1,500. Probably even a bit less. I overheard a conversation between ministers during the feast last year. They were talking about feast sites and saying that they even had to close some of the feast sites because of the dropping numbers. Some feast sites apparently didn’t even have more than fifty people going there.
Thanks for the info WATT.
km
Mirror mirror on the wall, whose the best liar of them all?
Another wild theory:
* Packie has a buyer for his estate (maybe Giant Eagle wants to expand)
* He puts on these antics to alienate members
* There aren't enough tithe dollars to keep the place going
* "Sorry, we'll have to sell the Campus"
* "See ya..."
@10:25 am,
Yeah I kind of wonder who gets the loot when he has to close up shop and sell the property. Davey boy may be looking at a sweet retirement when his little kingdom comes crashing down. Hopefully he'll owe so much that the bank and lawyers will grab the cash before he gets to it. But as with any conman I'm sure he has a few bucks stashed away somewhere.
Craig
Daves campus is like a giant doll house.
Satan's home: Inside Gerald Flurry's head.
Satan's second home: Inside David Pack's head.
You don’t get how crazy things are inside the RCG.. David Pack thinks that almost the entire Bible is wrong and that HE DAVID, and HE alone is appointed to explain to people what is true and what it REALLY means.
AKA, David Pack will start rewriting the Bible soon.That’s my prophecy..
You are then an official true prophet for the 6 plus year Greatest Story Never Told starring guess who as the name your biblical character man is the official rewrite of the bible.
Hang in there yourself, you are doing a good work!
@ 2:43 pm WHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH said
"David Pack will start rewriting the Bible soon.That’s my prophecy.."
Hey buddy don't prophecy as you know what the punishment is if you get it wrong. False prophets have to smoke joints until they get stoned.
Craig
They work like this WATT.
I've been wondering, who's the real failure? Dozens of you guys were once ministers in the WCG, now several of you don't even believe in God. What if? What if? What if, Dave no longer believes in God either? He'd be smarter than all of you since he's been living the life of a multi-billionaire.
If there's no God, who cares? There's no one to hold you morally accountable.
Is Pack really the fool you all make him out to be? Or does the real fool look back at you in the mirror?
Craig,
I didn't pronounce a prophecy. Anon. 12:36 am
Predicted that Dave Pack would rewrite the bible.
I declared this person a true prophet because Dave Pack has already rewritten the bible in oral form with his 6 1/2 year "Greatest Story Never Told" sermon series.
In this series he has declared himself indispensable and irreplaceable to all future prophetic events. He also has assumed the names or actions of almost all of the future biblical characters.
I declared 12:36 a.m. a true prophet (in jest) already because the oral law in the OT carried as much weight as the written law.
He also has assumed the names or actions of almost all of the future biblical characters.
Except one, which is his true persona. That is the animal that Balaam rode upon!I
Well, I guess you did say future, but...
km
@ WHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH,
I know what you were saying was in jest, just as I made the silly getting stoned statement, I was not being serious either as I know that you were not literally prophesying. As for Dave Pack, I have to agree with everyone on this blog that he sounds like a real nutter.
Craig
5.47 AM
Your comment assumes that there is no God. That point has been endlessly debated on this site. If there is a God, and Dave ends up in the lake of fire, who is the fool?
If there is a God, do you think that He can't punish Dave before throwing him into the lake of fire? Again, who is the fool. If I end up in the kingdom, and you don't, who is the fool?
4:35am Can you not read? The assumption that there is no God was pointed out in the beginning of my post.
"Dozens of you guys were once ministers in the WCG, now several of you don't even believe in God. What if? What if? What if, Dave no longer believes in God either?"
I wasn't writing to anyone who still believes in God.
Learn to read!
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