Here we go again. LCG members cannot do ANYTHING right anymore. They are castigated each and every week for some minute issue they are always getting wrong.
LCG members need to stop questioning doctrinal issues in the church. After all, God speaks directly through Gerald Weston and the boys in Charlotte, and when they say something is a doctrine you MUST NEVER question it!
Also, stop being like the rest of the world, worrying about your political leaders who are failing you in every way imaginable (just like the church leaders do).
LCG members must stay focused upon the bigger picture. They are in training to be priests and kings when they arrive in Petra where they will be taught by Bob Thiel. Thiel will have arrived there before LCG does. Remember, while Bob knows the proper time to flee, LCG leaders do not. He will be there first and will have the
Where Is Your Focus? The cares and worries of this life tend to keep our focus on the here and now and what is happening to us as individuals. This is especially true in the midst of a global pandemic with all of its uncertainties. However, Jesus admonished His disciples to “seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness” (Matthews 6:33). Jesus also warned that “the cares of this world” can choke the truth and cause us to become unfruitful (Matthew 13:22). Are your thoughts and efforts really focused on the Big Picture—of doing God’s Work and building the character necessary to function as kings and priests (leaders and teachers) in the soon-coming Kingdom of God? The Apostle Paul urged Christians to “walk circumspectly” (live purposefully) and make the most of our time “because the days are evil” (Ephesians 5:15–16). Paul also instructed Christians to treat each other with love and respect and to avoid bickering and divisive arguments over doctrinal and political issues that can shift our focus away from the Big Picture (Romans 12:9–12; 14:20; 1 Corinthians 1:10). In good times and in times of turmoil, we need to periodically evaluate what dominates our lives and our thinking, how we use our time, and what we are really trying to accomplish. Are we following the biblical admonition to focus our minds and efforts on what is true, noble, just, and pure (Philippians 4:8) so we rise above the concerns of this world and become productive members of God’s family? Let’s all strive to stay focused on the Big Picture.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
45 comments:
LCG leaders are cultivating mushrooms, not future sons of God.
Old Jerry Weston was so excited on his livestream last Sabbath, bragging that his COVID-19 telecast got more than 6,000 responses. He doesn't seem to remember that ten years ago Rod Meredith was bragging about getting an average of 6,000 responses every week. He was even getting some weekly responses above 8,000.
Will anybody in LCG bother to question this? Will anyone ask why Rod Meredith took money away from LCG's TV stations while spending lavishly on his sons' expense accounts? LCG has gone backwards in its preaching the gospel in the last decade. But I guess that isn't part of the Big Picture. The Big Picture in LCG is a picture of a mushroom.
Winnail wrote:
The Apostle Paul urged Christians to “walk circumspectly” (live purposefully) and make the most of our time “because the days are evil” (Ephesians 5:15–16).
Do you see what he did? He does this a lot. If you bother to use your Strong's Concordance you'll see that Dougie is just making stuff up. The Greek words used here cannot reasonably be stretched to mean "live purposefully." Paul is telling the Ephesians that in an evil world, we must proceed with caution and diligence and "accuracy." In context, this means accurately obeying God.
Satan has a purpose. So did Charles Manson. We can "live purposefully" while having very bad purposes. Paul is telling the Ephesians to live "carefully" and "accurately." He is telling them to be faithful in the small things, not to ignore small things and hope that a bunch of small sins and mistakes and problems don't ruin the Big Picture.
Winnail is basically trying to twist this scripture to mean the opposite of what it truly means. And yet, he says that Christians will build character by doing things his way instead of the way Paul advises. I don't know about you, but if Paul and Doug disagree about how I should build character, I'm going to take Paul's advice over Doug's every time!
The cares of this life can choke the truth?
It's more like the lies of religion divert your focus from doing something productive that actually HELPS real people in the real world. So get a job and work hard and do something people value so much that they will PAY you for it. Then you know you are doing good!
When a church turns to poop, only the pigs will stay there.
Ha!
-he doesn't know what circumspect means! And they pay him $150,000 salary?
Your tithes >> executive salaries, perks, mansions...
-he doesn't know what circumspect means! And they pay him $150,000 salary?
OF COURSE he knows what circumspect means. He's trusting that you don't know, and that even if you do know you'll turn off your brain and accept him at his word. just like in Orwell's 1984. That's why he's worth $150,000 to LCG.
Living purposefully (or at least writing about it) made Rick Warren a very wealthy minister. Probably far above $150K.
How dare any of them ask questions, like the Bereans did. You are allowed to ask questions before you become a member. After that, they must remember, "Once a decision has been made, the thinking has been done." Now, go sit down, shut up and write us another check. Have a profitable Sabbath.
The whole bible is fake. It's all myths, many of them stolen from pagans. A lot of time is wasted on this fake book. It was written to keep the dumb masses occupied with fables while those "in the know" concerned themselves with what they thought was too precious to be shared with the stupid masses. The Rabbis are making a mockery of you clowns who believe their lies.
Oh look, the anti-semite is back. There are a lot of dumb comments here at times, but this one takes the cake! hilarious
7.57 PM
Your point of view is shared by millions. But then again, billions of Muslims and Catholics disagree with one another. So numbers prove nothing.
Does LCG publish their top executive salaries?
Would be very interesting...
Anon 656 wrote You are allowed to ask questions before you become a member.
I remember a discussion about that over a Sabbath dinner back in the late 1970s. I had just read a WN article in which HWA stated that the "don't trust me, trust your Bible" line was the message for "the world". Once one "accepts the Truth" and becomes a baptized WCG member, that's over! From then on, you have to accept what "the church" (HWA) says...
I don't find any sinister or twisted views here expressed by Dr Winnail. It's just a common and expected perspective from anyone in a Christian context, minister or member, who find themselves able to be overwhelmed by the times at a cost to the faith and one's priorities.
12:00 You are being overly anal-ytical of Dr Winnail's point in this. The moment someone says "if you bother to use your Strong's Concordance you'll see that Dougie is just making stuff up" it brings up a myriad of times I personally spent listening to people's use of Strong's Concordance to argue the hell out of some pet view they had as if they knew. Useless endeavor and shallow as hell in the pursuit of "the truth". Calling someone "Dougie" belies your own attitude, projections and rancor whatever your background is.
Dr Winnail is simply stating the obvious priority for the Church as every church I know of would do using the scriptures to encourage those priorities. There does not have to be some sinister plot behind doing that as a church.
These are more than difficult times. Most regular folk are under a lot of mental, emotional, financial and personal spirituality stress. Some go to church for comfort. Some go play golf. I sit out on clear evenings looking at galaxies and star clusters to keep perspective in times such as these.
Kindness, understanding, compassion and making every effort to keep one's perspective however they choose to do so or according to their personal faith is how we get through. I know Dr Winnail. While he may not be Mr Dynamic , he's sincere in his use of scripture to encourage those in his circle of responsibility and common belief and their hopes. It's just what those of faith do, try to do, do badly or do very well to get through.
The NT has much to say one's relationship to the society they are stuck in and I didn't find Dr Winnail expressing it any less sincerely than any person of faith would and encourage others to do so.
Acts 15....sounds like doctrine is very important.
we don't do things "just because the minister says so".
Dennis
I don't agree with your complaint of calling someone "Dougie." In ACOG culture, the ministers exalt themselves over members using a variety of ploys, such as destructive criticism, cruel fault finding, verbally beating members down, and point blank tearing members down by attacking their self image.
I suggest you spend time looking at member complaints rather than your galaxies and star clusters. Most ministers deserve a lot, lot more than being called Dougie or similar.
Negative labels has the positive effect of knocking these ministers off their pedestals in members minds. Christ called Judas a devil. You probably think He was wrong.
I agree with Dennis Diehl. On the surface, there is nothing wrong with this statement from Winnail. To those who know Armstrongism the text will likely take on a sinister quality. And the unsuspecting would wonder what all he hubbub is about. Anthony Bourdain (rest his soul) and a cannibal might both say "Let's get something to eat!!" But you might want to look a little deeper before you go along.
This is Douglas Winnail
Dennis, I'm touched by your defence of me. I always appreciate it when people kiss my ring. Yep, you're still one of us, part of the old boys network. We still think of you as one of our own. So don't hesitate to contact me if you want your old job back. Err, and there'II be no more talk to members of your rock collection and similar. Welcome back Dennis!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Dennis
I don't agree with your complaint of calling someone "Dougie." In ACOG culture, the ministers exalt themselves over members using a variety of ploys, such as destructive criticism, cruel fault finding, verbally beating members down, and point blank tearing members down by attacking their self image."
A little defensive there aren't you 508? Also, I didn't complain about it. I just quoted you in a bigger context but now that you mention it...
I understand that you obviously have had a lot of bad experiences along way. At least from the projection going on here. You don't need to suggest anything to me about how I should spend my time. I have been out of the loop for 23 years and don't have a need to knock anyone down off real or imagined pedestals. I'm well aware of the complaints of others having spend a decade here on Banned, 26 years endeavoring to be the change the church needed and being really nice to folk through all and their thick and thins along the way in the Wildworld Church of God.
You really should invest in a telescope...
I know Doug Winnail and his son Scott, spoke with them privately for years. They think very highly of themselves but falsely act humble. They are blind servants leading the blind into a deep ditch. Lcg is a corrupt cancer of a church and its leaders are politians disguised as men of God.
Dennis
Doug is the head of a abusive cult. They rob their members of their lives by treating them as rightless children. Yet you only harp on the label Dougie and shoot the messengers with accusations of projection and similar. You've obviously thrown us (former)members under the bus and sided with your former minister pals.
Why post here if you are not on our side?
There is no scripture that says ministers should be called "Mister". Paul was not called Mr. Paul or Rabbi Paul. In the ACOGs, "Mister" basically means "Rabbi" since it is applied only to the teachers in the ministry. So calling them "Mister" is not just non-biblical, it is anti-biblical. It is a sin.
The anti-semite is back? Numerous great thinkers were "anti-semites" who warned about the Jews. Writing about the "Jewish Question" or "Jewish Problem" was standard fare in philosophical circles. These were the most rational and educated people.
The claim that the bible is largely myth is not an assumption. It is based on a great deal of research comparing bible stories to pagan stories. In a great many cases it is clear that the pagan stories came first. That is just historical fact. The Jews did what lots of other people's did. Copy stories from other religions. Those who want to brush it all aside as just an opinion have their nose stuck in the bible and will not look at anything outside the bible. So they cannot see the connections between paganism and the bible. That's why they remain in the dark.
Labelling people "anti-semites" is just childish name-calling. It would be more intelligent to do some research and find out why so many people recognise that having the self-appointed "God's chosen" among them is dangerous. "God's chosen" feel they have the right to dominate, abuse, and enslave the rest of mankind, and have often done so. Have you forgotten the commands in the old testament to genocide the inhabitants of Cannan?
Yes
I do think "the pagans" like the Scythians and Vikings were the truest believers in an afterlife.
I mean, who needs 100 horses, servants, gold, maidens and ones wife buried with him.
Only someone believing he's going to need that "real soon in the resurrection."
Nck
Anon 7:47 AM, you've got it wrong. Dennis is to be commended for his loyalty, which Winnail does not return when the subject of Banned comes up in his presence.
Anon (11:24)
The idea that the Bible is derived from pagan writings is an old and unconvincing saw. A favorite is to compare the Epic of Gilgamesh to Genesis. The Epic even has a Great Flood. Utnapishtim is thought to be the pagan Noah. But a cursory reading of he surrounding context would convince any reasonable mind that any connection between the Akkadian mythology and the Biblical account (also mythicized) is minimal, particularly in spiritual principle.
If you know of a pagan account that closely parallels the Bible in historical provenance, content, characterization and in spiritual principle I would like to know what that is and verify it myself. After all the wandering mind on a lazy afternoon can draw frivolous connections even between Bugs Bunny cartoons and various Biblical accounts.
11:27
That is so true.
Trump knows he is regarded as "the chosen one" in many different religious denominations and all you said rings true.
It just occurred to ne that Trump resembles Jonah refusing to yield to the paganites, while in reality the Jonah figure is causing the curses.
Trump is like Jonah sitting under the fig tree refusing to yield, while more and more of the fascist assyrian police forces all over the nation are in repent mide and using the Kaepernick knee bow to yield themselves toward reconciluation.
I believe Trump like Jonah will come to see the power of this gesture and the leaders of the fascist police force call for "repentance" and reconcilliation.
I have to figure out who is playing the part of the whale in all this.
I hope it is Melania, giving him hell at night "at the redecorated home", to make him adress "the Assyrians" as is his assigned mission.
She has seen her former homeland embroiled in civil war and destruction by stubborn self appointed "chosen ones."
And I love to call her a whale as a, symbol of an agent of change, so women reading this blog must agree with me in the wierdest of twists I ever produced on this blog.
Nck
"Dennis
Doug is the head of a abusive cult. They rob their members of their lives by treating them as rightless children. Yet you only harp on the label Dougie and shoot the messengers with accusations of projection and similar. You've obviously thrown us (former)members under the bus and sided with your former minister pals.
Why post here if you are not on our side?"
I'll say this once more. I had NO comment, made no comment and did not focus on the term "Dougie" I merely quoted the posters statement which included it to make another point. Secondly, Doug is not the head, Gerald Weston is. Thirdly, I was merely observing that any pastor of any church during these times would and could say the very same thing to any group of church folk during these rather confusing and tulmultuous times where it is very east to get off whatever track a particular religious view, in this case, one man in LCG might have in an effor to simply encourage people with scripture. That's what ministers and churches are supposed to do right????
I have not thrown you under the bus and am not siding with anyone against anyone else.
You prove to me I was "harping" on the term "Dougie" The CONTEXT, out of which you have taken your view of my view was more on the classic "if you look up the word ______ in the Strong's Concordance" etc as if that is the be all and end all way of proving something. It was a very common way practice back in the day and you or whoever said it reminded me of how often I sat through arguments on "if you look up the word in Strong's..." What word don't you understand?
I have no minister buddies. I haven't for over 30 years and back in the day I was cautious of being around lots of them myself.
So yes, I consider all those personal evaluations as to what you or whoever thinks my observation about Dr Winnail's comments projections of your own bad experiences on to others. It's very common.
So please don't fuck with me as to who you think what side of what I am on. Don't torture yourself with the asinine view that if I point out something that to me seems not as bad, even if done by "the other side" as being made out to be for whatever reasons, somehow I'm on "the other side." What a stupid way to think and conclusion to draw.
Read the books by people who study the pagan myths. There is a pile of evidence that the bible is a collection of myths. Of course, a bible fanatic will never admit to this. There is none so blind as he who will not see.
"If you know of a pagan account that closely parallels the Bible in historical provenance,"
That question for proof has been asked many times of our "the bible stems from myths" forum participant with total silence always following.
It's so easy to make the claims, "there's millions of ancient proofs", yet more difficult when it's time to just provide one.
The silence continues to be deafening!
"Anonymous said...
Read the books by people who study the pagan myths."
There lies your problem, you believe what they say. They don't have any proof. Their footnotes are full of writings of others who claim biblical mythological origins without proof.
If I wrote a book stating the moon was made of swiss cheese, and someone else wrote a book quoting me, and another wrote one quoting the two previous, eventually you'll have a lot of unsubstantiated "proof" that the moon is made of cheese, and in all likelihood people such as yourself will believe it. Thinking they have proof.
Oh how the gullible are so funny!
Anon 7:14 AM, you've identified the problem.
Herbists take Hislop's Two Babylons as the truth, though it is rife with errors, even while they express skepticism about authors who agree with Hislop but also find paganism rife in Judaism's history and pre-history.
So, let's get away from books for a moment.
Archaeologists have documented that Judaism was a very diverse faith tradition before AD 70. So diverse, in fact, that monotheism wasn't a majority position within Judaism until sometime after the Babylonian captivity. Pre-Exilic Judaism was a nationalist religion of monolatry, and in many quarters YHVH was worshipped alongside a female consort, as was standard in so many other religions of that time period.
But let's get back to the original topic of this thread. As a longtime friend of Dr. Michael Germano, Dr. Douglas Winnail knows the archaeological truth, but he and his friend need to keep teaching British Israelism in order to keep earning a paycheck (and soon a retirement income) from LCG.
"If I wrote a book stating the moon was made of swiss cheese, and someone else wrote a book quoting me, and another wrote one quoting the two previous, eventually you'll have a lot of unsubstantiated "proof" that the moon is made of cheese, and in all likelihood people such as yourself will believe it. Thinking they have proof."
exactly!
I had the occasion to attend a Baptist funeral, and the preacher quoted only a couple of verses from the bible....most of his references were to "great Baptist theologians" and the books they've written and their proclamations (none of which were biblical).
I was thinking.....my goodness what confusion
but, he proved in his own mind what was true to him, and a willing congregation.
"Archaeologists have documented that Judaism was a very diverse faith tradition before AD 70."
Most likely as diverse a Christianity today, which proves nothing!
"Hislop's Two Babylons as the truth, though it is rife with errors"
I keep hearing that claim, but just like the claim that the bible stems from myth, where's the proof?
Is there really any way of knowing history or how it's been rewritten? I seriously doubt it!
1:18
We know something "can" be rewritten in a source AFTER an EARLIER source.
Armstrongism used a funny tool by claiming that "satan" REWROTE christianity and gods plan through nimrod BEFORE the "originals", since he had been privy to the planning process.
That is trickery and wizzardry even the Babylonian and Egyptian priests would have frowned at and would have resorted to keep changing staffs into snakes.
A trick Moses also performed as snakes were an important part in his religion too, like horned effigies.
Nck
Doug Winnail is telling others what to do... and how to be godly? What a joke! When one of Rod Meredith's sons was sexually harassing and assaulting women at LCG hq... and DSW was told about it, and more, in detail... what did HE do? He made excuses, and was primarily concerned with keeping his job and position, and hiding the truth. He didn't demand justice... he didn't put his job on the line to protect anyone... he allowed it to continue and kept driving his luxury car and going to fancy restaurants. Anybody listening to this false minister is very naive or just very uninformed. DSW is a very worldly man, and has no business whatsoever preaching to anyone... about anything! His Living University was ridiculous... I was told in person by a male 18 year old LU student, that he (the 18 yr. old LU student) received a FULL body massage--while wearing only a towel at a private residence, from a never married 50+ year old man who worked at LCG hq in a somewhat prominent position. I bet that wasn't discussed or mentioned to the young student's parents! Did people know that their sons or daughters could be dealing with such disgusting behavior while attending LU in Charlotte? THIS, along with women being sexually harassed and assaulted is LCG's legacy and LU's as well. And again, people actually listen to this fake and his fellow false ministers at LCG? What a sad joke!!! Wake up people... please WAKE UP!!!
What a curious post nck.
June 3, 2020 at 7:07 AM wrote:"That question for proof has been asked many times of our "the bible stems from myths" forum participant with total silence always following."
Although the book, "Hamlet's Mill: An Essay Investigating the Origins of Human Knowledge And Its Transmission Through Myth", doesn't directly focus on the Bible, it is a great introduction to archeo-astronomy.
DBP
Could someone please tell me why we should believe Lester L Grabbe over Alexander Hislop?
Does anyone know of any connection between Grabbe and the RCC that might influence his views?
Does no one else find it curious that Ralph Woodrow "changed his mind" at about the same time that the WCG was changing?
Pressure from the Black Pope perhaps? The head of the Jesuits.
What a curious post nck.
June 4, 2020 at 1:45 AM
I apologize, if you are al lady.
nck
"Does no one else find it curious that Ralph Woodrow "changed his mind" at about the same time that the WCG was changing?"
No this was the same time many cults transitioned, like the soviet union, apartheid south africa etc etc etc, The mission was completed, the Cold War had ended.
Most remarkable however for our case was that the SDA transitioned from a cult into a real protestant church and became part of the World Council of Churches also.
Of course this move resulted in many split offs too. But the organization structure of the SDA prevented a complete fracturing, unlike the totalitarian (bylaws of the) WCG organizational structure.
nck
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