Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
"Thank you for a little honesty. That church missed out on the wealth and diversity of the common man. People taught me more than I ever got out of sermons or classes in the college. Thanks for the plusses."
14 comments:
Anonymous
said...
My sound is on max and I can barely hear a word. If you make a video, make sure the sound is adequate!
I used to be in the RCG and whilst watching this video it checked all the boxes: one by one. David Pack and his ‘church’ are an exact copy of the WCG.. And I’ve experienced the exact same fear, guilt, abuse and loneliness as you describe in you video. Hearing you talk brought back too many not so fond memories, frustration, pain and anger. Glad you escaped it!
Keep posting things like this. Even if it will only wake up a few COG-members or prevent just one person from joining them, it will be worth it!
Well the nominations for "playing the part of the working guy" are in.
At best this guy is a millionaire like Bruce Springsteen. I get the distinct feeling he is a Harvard professor, a stock broker from Manhattan in his mancave or at worst eloquent BB having to much time on his hands during Covid times playing a prank. I enjoyed the ..............."Oops gass.......sorry", part very much.
I did not listen to all of it but was impressed by the speaker's delivery. It was slow, sometimes painstaking, but it was sincere and credible. In sharp and favorable contrast to the glib, Rush Limbaugh-like, insincere styling picked up at Ambassador College.
I have read many express the same things 12:02 did in his posting. I grew up in this since 1960 and just never experienced that to any degree ….. I believed all, accepted all and practiced all until the early 90's, (before UCGaia). Fear? Only a little concern over the Germans attacking January 1972, but no fear of any man. Guilt? Well maybe because I didn't have the faith of Gerald Waterhouse who KNEW for a fact and guaranteed that HWA would never die. Abuse? Maybe systemic, but not personally. Frustration? Yeah a lot of that when I started reading scripture for what it actually does say and does not say ….. now that took a while! Still working on that. Pain? Some in the pocketbook maybe, but that was willingly given even by coercion as I was a believer. Anger? Nah. Some good memories, but some disgust in latter years as I began to see more clearly. I have avoided the bitterness that so many express, but then my experiences may have been quite different. The toughest thing was to step away from all that controlling atmosphere when I realized it was just not according to clear scripture, and quit accepting 'interpretations' that always caused me to struggle with that 'understanding'. Learned a lot. Learned a lot of things that are not correct and learned to fall into those things again! LOL
No, Pack and his church are actually worse than WCG and not an "exact copy" . WCG was terrible in many ways. Pack is WCG "on steroids".
On the surface , Pack and his compound may have the illusion of being WCGish, in appearance and the like. Here is where Pack goes even further...
---Pack claims Christ like titles. HWA was bad enough with "Elijah", "Zerababel", "Apostle", etc. Pack goes further.
---Although HWA shook the brethren down hard about tithes and offerings, Pack asks for EVERTHING with his common.
--- HWA had just one basic sermon, that he repeated ad nauseam, about the two trees, and why the COG 7th Day was sardis, and that God gave him a unique calling, and that time is short. Pack , on the other hand has sermon series that are 150 parts or more long. HWA never did that.
There are more. Both guys were narcissistic sociopaths, this is agreed.
Is not a church defined by it’s members; their experiences, their hopes, their vision, and their joys?
I endured 13 years in the Worldwide Church of God. I heard the broadcasts of Herbert W and Garner Ted Armstrong; very mistakenly I thought they spoke the Biblical truth; which meant that all other churches were the real frauds.
During my time in that church, I, too, had very similar feelings and understandings. To attain salvation, one had to adhere to, keep precisely all of the portions of the Old Testament Mosaic Laws the Armstrongs said apply to us, today. Hour after hour of proof-texted sermons on what we had to do, followed by ominous stories of what will happen if we are found deficient in our law-keeping. “Correction” would have been the intended themes of those sermons.
But they were not. In fact, I soon discovered that try as hard as I might, my efforts at law-keeping were insufficient.
An issue that arose from time to time was the righteousness of purchasing and enjoying a meal at a restaurant on a Sabbath or Holy Day. On my first Holy Day, I as astonished to be invited by church members to go to a fancy restaurant and purchase a good meal after services. I didn’t know Scripture in detail, but I asked, “But aren’t employers obligated under the Law to give their employees rest on the Sabbath?” “Oh, that’s not for them, or for us, today. We can purchase food and pay for their services at our meal today because they don’t know any better. They will work on the Sabbath whether we are here or not. Let’s sit down and enjoy the meal. It’s a Holy Day, where we rejoice.”
I spent hours searching and contemplating all of the various, applicable Scriptures on this. I didn’t know much about how to properly “interpret” The Law. But it was patently obvious that to pay a waitress to serve a meal to me on the Sabbath was in absolute violation. The fact that she would have “worked” on that Sabbath had I not gone to the restaurant didn’t change the prohibition to pay people for work done in the Sabbath in any way.
In summary, what words best describe my experiences in the Worldwide Church of God? Fears and Tears. Words utterly absent? Hope and Joy.
Only the pastor, the deacons, and their families lived properly. The rest of us were law-keeping failures. But I was particularly suspect; my wife (intelligently) did not join. I was known to be “unequally-yoked” to a non-believer. Each week I feared that some New Truth would be imposed on us. “Headquarters now knows that members married to non-members must divorce; no longer live with and be so terribly influenced by a sinful non-member mate.”
That edict never materialized. But the thoughts in the minds of other members that there was simply something very wrong with my life, having and living with a non-believer mate, was painfully palpable. There were good, righteous members (a few), then the rest of us settled into our assigned ranks of law-keeping goodness. I was at the bottom of that perceived ranking.
Thankfully, I have returned to my Reformation mainline church, where I now so ever more recognize the true salvation Jesus Christ offers; not to those who first keep selected (but ominous) segments of The Law, but to those who follow the commands of Jesus Christ (of which Sabbath-keeping was never mentioned as a pre-condition).
Frequently, in my prayers, I utter thanks, that unlike other quasi-Christian cults, Armstrongism is slowly fading. It was a veritable curse on those who so needlessly and so harmfully sacrificed so much of their lives to “keep from being thrown into the Lake of Fire.”
I know. It just looks like a hollywood studio scripted production of the working man.
He lost my interest when this "working blue collar man" started whining about 24 hours of food intake suspension once a year, without realisation he is still in the worlds richest 10 percent group, foodwise.
Same goes for reading skills people obviously used in late stages.
Its a general attitude that puts me off, including repeating of cliches and heresay.
But I did listen a while to find nuggets in a personal history.
I found some when he started using basic skills in life vs being herded in spiritual laziness, a general trait in most complaints.
He did admit meeting a lot of nice people back in the day, so I guess he tried "to fit in", which was impossible for people curious enough to think once in a while.
Well done! I love this. It is always interesting to see how people's confessions on how life for them in the church was and how it irritates the hell out of people when they share the inner workings of the cult. Give us more!
14 comments:
My sound is on max and I can barely hear a word. If you make a video, make sure the sound is adequate!
Long video, but boy is it worth watching!
I used to be in the RCG and whilst watching this video it checked all the boxes: one by one. David Pack and his ‘church’ are an exact copy of the WCG.. And I’ve experienced the exact same fear, guilt, abuse and loneliness as you describe in you video.
Hearing you talk brought back too many not so fond memories, frustration, pain and anger. Glad you escaped it!
Keep posting things like this. Even if it will only wake up a few COG-members or prevent just one person from joining them, it will be worth it!
Well the nominations for "playing the part of the working guy" are in.
At best this guy is a millionaire like Bruce Springsteen.
I get the distinct feeling he is a Harvard professor, a stock broker from Manhattan in his mancave or at worst eloquent BB having to much time on his hands during Covid times playing a prank. I enjoyed the ..............."Oops gass.......sorry", part very much.
nck
I did not listen to all of it but was impressed by the speaker's delivery. It was slow, sometimes painstaking, but it was sincere and credible. In sharp and favorable contrast to the glib, Rush Limbaugh-like, insincere styling picked up at Ambassador College.
I have read many express the same things 12:02 did in his posting. I grew up in this since 1960 and just never experienced that to any degree ….. I believed all, accepted all and practiced all until the early 90's, (before UCGaia). Fear? Only a little concern over the Germans attacking January 1972, but no fear of any man. Guilt? Well maybe because I didn't have the faith of Gerald Waterhouse who KNEW for a fact and guaranteed that HWA would never die. Abuse? Maybe systemic, but not personally. Frustration? Yeah a lot of that when I started reading scripture for what it actually does say and does not say ….. now that took a while! Still working on that. Pain? Some in the pocketbook maybe, but that was willingly given even by coercion as I was a believer. Anger? Nah. Some good memories, but some disgust in latter years as I began to see more clearly. I have avoided the bitterness that so many express, but then my experiences may have been quite different. The toughest thing was to step away from all that controlling atmosphere when I realized it was just not according to clear scripture, and quit accepting 'interpretations' that always caused me to struggle with that 'understanding'. Learned a lot. Learned a lot of things that are not correct and learned to fall into those things again! LOL
Anon @ 12:02
No, Pack and his church are actually worse than WCG and not an "exact copy" . WCG was terrible in many ways. Pack is WCG "on steroids".
On the surface , Pack and his compound may have the illusion of being WCGish, in appearance and the like. Here is where Pack goes even further...
---Pack claims Christ like titles. HWA was bad enough with "Elijah", "Zerababel", "Apostle", etc. Pack goes further.
---Although HWA shook the brethren down hard about tithes and offerings, Pack asks for EVERTHING with his common.
--- HWA had just one basic sermon, that he repeated ad nauseam, about the two trees, and why the COG 7th Day was sardis, and that God gave him a unique calling, and that time is short. Pack , on the other hand has sermon series that are 150 parts or more long. HWA never did that.
There are more. Both guys were narcissistic sociopaths, this is agreed.
Is not a church defined by it’s members; their experiences, their hopes, their vision, and their joys?
I endured 13 years in the Worldwide Church of God. I heard the broadcasts of Herbert W and Garner Ted Armstrong; very mistakenly I thought they spoke the Biblical truth; which meant that all other churches were the real frauds.
During my time in that church, I, too, had very similar feelings and understandings. To attain salvation, one had to adhere to, keep precisely all of the portions of the Old Testament Mosaic Laws the Armstrongs said apply to us, today. Hour after hour of proof-texted sermons on what we had to do, followed by ominous stories of what will happen if we are found deficient in our law-keeping. “Correction” would have been the intended themes of those sermons.
But they were not. In fact, I soon discovered that try as hard as I might, my efforts at law-keeping were insufficient.
An issue that arose from time to time was the righteousness of purchasing and enjoying a meal at a restaurant on a Sabbath or Holy Day. On my first Holy Day, I as astonished to be invited by church members to go to a fancy restaurant and purchase a good meal after services. I didn’t know Scripture in detail, but I asked, “But aren’t employers obligated under the Law to give their employees rest on the Sabbath?” “Oh, that’s not for them, or for us, today. We can purchase food and pay for their services at our meal today because they don’t know any better. They will work on the Sabbath whether we are here or not. Let’s sit down and enjoy the meal. It’s a Holy Day, where we rejoice.”
I spent hours searching and contemplating all of the various, applicable Scriptures on this. I didn’t know much about how to properly “interpret” The Law. But it was patently obvious that to pay a waitress to serve a meal to me on the Sabbath was in absolute violation. The fact that she would have “worked” on that Sabbath had I not gone to the restaurant didn’t change the prohibition to pay people for work done in the Sabbath in any way.
In summary, what words best describe my experiences in the Worldwide Church of God? Fears and Tears. Words utterly absent? Hope and Joy.
Only the pastor, the deacons, and their families lived properly. The rest of us were law-keeping failures. But I was particularly suspect; my wife (intelligently) did not join. I was known to be “unequally-yoked” to a non-believer. Each week I feared that some New Truth would be imposed on us. “Headquarters now knows that members married to non-members must divorce; no longer live with and be so terribly influenced by a sinful non-member mate.”
That edict never materialized. But the thoughts in the minds of other members that there was simply something very wrong with my life, having and living with a non-believer mate, was painfully palpable. There were good, righteous members (a few), then the rest of us settled into our assigned ranks of law-keeping goodness. I was at the bottom of that perceived ranking.
Thankfully, I have returned to my Reformation mainline church, where I now so ever more recognize the true salvation Jesus Christ offers; not to those who first keep selected (but ominous) segments of The Law, but to those who follow the commands of Jesus Christ (of which Sabbath-keeping was never mentioned as a pre-condition).
Frequently, in my prayers, I utter thanks, that unlike other quasi-Christian cults, Armstrongism is slowly fading. It was a veritable curse on those who so needlessly and so harmfully sacrificed so much of their lives to “keep from being thrown into the Lake of Fire.”
My sound is just right. Just because you have an issue with the sound don't blame the author of the video.
His material is interesting, but it needs to be planned out and condensed.
That's not BB nck.
Don't believe the story Anon 10:57. Big gaping holes in it.
I know. It just looks like a hollywood studio scripted production of the working man.
He lost my interest when this "working blue collar man" started whining about 24 hours of food intake suspension once a year, without realisation he is still in the worlds richest 10 percent group, foodwise.
Same goes for reading skills people obviously used in late stages.
Its a general attitude that puts me off, including repeating of cliches and heresay.
But I did listen a while to find nuggets in a personal history.
I found some when he started using basic skills in life vs being herded in spiritual laziness, a general trait in most complaints.
He did admit meeting a lot of nice people back in the day, so I guess he tried "to fit in", which was impossible for people curious enough to think once in a while.
Nck
Well done! I love this. It is always interesting to see how people's confessions on how life for them in the church was and how it irritates the hell out of people when they share the inner workings of the cult. Give us more!
Nck commented,
"I know."= Full stop. Move on swiftly. No explanation. Delivered like an expert. Short, sharp response ever so slightly deadly.
"Frowned upon." Interesting kinda unique expression used by a minority.
Is nck all he`s supposed to be. I doubt it.
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