Thursday, June 4, 2020

UCG: Victor Kubik "I can declare with authority that we condemn racism."


With the tragic death of George Floyd at the hands of corrupt policemen, UCG has jumped on the bandwagon with their own take on the situation.

Nothing works better for a Church of God splinter group than taking advantage of some tragedy or world event in order to push their version of the Bible that they claim is right.
For my wife Bev and me, the news of the tragic murder of an African American in Minneapolis, Minnesota, by police officers really hit home. As many know, we both lived and served in Minnesota for many years. Minnesota was home to us. Just before going to Ambassador College in California, I first started attending church services near Lake Street and 1st Avenue South—less than two miles from the Powderhorn Park area where George Floyd was murdered. I saw many personally familiar landmarks in the television coverage, except this time they were marred by rioting people burning and destroying businesses and property.
The rage ignited in Minneapolis has since spread all over the United States and has set the country on fire. This is in the wake of a country exhausted by thousands of deaths, record unemployment, and economic catastrophe all fueled by COVID-19.
What should we be doing? What is our response?
Scott Ashley, the managing editor of Beyond Today, saw the importance of speaking out as quickly as possible on this searing issue. He rearranged the July-August lineup of articles accordingly to create space at the last minute before sending the magazine to the printer. I was given the task of providing an article. My column here contains excerpts from some of those thoughts, which were written for a more general audience—one that needs to hear our voice in these increasingly tumultuous times (Isaiah 58:1).
Kubik starts off by letting us all know he knows all about African American discrimination because his family was discriminated against when they fled from the advancing Russians in defeated Nazi Germany. Also, living a life of exceptional privilege since entering the COG ministry and still wallowing in that privilege, he knows all about discrimination that Blacks deal with in housing, jobs and daily life.
As we live in this world, awaiting the powerful return of our Savior in glory, we must recognize that the wrongful death of George Floyd represents a deadly serious, unresolved issue in America. As one familiar with oppression (many know of my background as an immigrant to the United States as a refugee fleeing advancing Russians in defeated Nazi Germany), I grieve when I hear the accounts of violence and discrimination against people of color.
Kubik's next statement is his "bold" stance that UCG does NOT discriminate and that UCG condemns "white-superiority" and racism.
To God—who is no respecter of persons (Romans 2:11)—skin color and cultural background don’t matter. All have full access to Him through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That is why—as the current president of the United Church of God, an International Association—I can declare with authority that we condemn racism. Make no mistake. As a Church and as a people called out by God, we condemn so-called “white superiority.” Neither has anything to do with God!
If this is true, then Kubik and the entire United Church of God need to IMMEDIATELY discard their belief in British Israelism. They still hold dear Herbert Armstrong's racist propaganda teaching that is the basic foundation of UCG and every single splinter group out there today masquerading as a true church.  UCG makes weak comments occasionally that the church does not follow those teachings, but they do.  Many high ranking evangelists and leaders believe it is 100% accurate.

Kubik then goes on to state that he and UCG know a "better way." He starts off by quoting Colossians 3:11. As long as he still keeps BI as a basic tenant of the UCG he CANNOT believe the following, because the scripture below totally invalidates BI and the teaching that in Herbert's world tomorrow races would be segregated in their own nations
As members of the body of Christ, we know firsthand what Paul meant when he stated in the first century: “It doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile [Greek], circumcised or uncircumcised, barbaric, uncivilized, slave, or free. Christ is all that matters, and he lives in all of us” (Colossians 3:11, New Living Translation, emphasis added throughout).
Ironically, in ancient times a “barbarian” or “being barbaric” was a cultural slur that referred to anyone who didn’t speak Greek, which essentially meant anyone outside the Mediterranean area—the rest of the world. Together with anti-Semitism, it represented an early form of racism.
What is our response? Simply put, we are called to a higher standard. We are called to live a better way.
Really? 
There is a better way.
So he quotes Rev. Martin Luther King...a man Herbert Armstrong and almost all ministers reject as a trouble maker and an adulterer.  Every time any posts King's words, some COG members whip themselves into a frenzy about King being an adulterer and of course, being a "so-called" Christian.
Let us take a moment to consider the words of Dr. Martin Luther King. In 1966, Dr. King remarked: “I’m concerned about a better world. I’m concerned about justice … and when one is concerned about that, he can never advocate violence. For through violence you may murder a murderer, but you can’t murder murder … Darkness cannot put out darkness; only light can do that.”
The answer, according to Dr. King? “Love is ultimately the only answer to humankind’s problems … I have seen too much hate … If you are seeking the highest good, I think you can find it through love.”
God defines and manifests this incomparable quality, and Paul urges us to “be imitators of God and live a life of love” (Ephesians 5:1-2NIV). There is no room for racism.
God’s great purpose marvelously focuses on “bringing many sons to glory” (Hebrews 2:10ESV). This includes men and women of all walks of life, being brought together in the coming future Kingdom of God.
Jesus gave us our focus: “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God” (Matthew 5:9ESV). Note this: first, Jesus didn’t say “blessed are the peace-lovers,” or those who simply wish for peace. Jesus said that God favors—blesses—those who pursue peace and live peace. Secondly, the Greek word translated here “sons” is anthropoi, referring to both men and women—all of humanity!
If we want to be peacemakers, we must understand that peace begins by peace with God. When we have peace with God, we have peace with all men and women, regardless of background.
Note this marvelous statement from the apostle Paul: “Christ himself has brought peace to us … our hostility toward each other was put to death” (Ephesians 2:1416 NLT).
If Kubik actually believes this then why does he continue to reject everything Jesus said and accomplished by his clinging to the law and forcing his followers to keep things no longer required of New Covenant Christians.
As we follow the living Leader of our Church, Jesus Christ, we must hold to high standards, being examples of the way He taught (Matthew 5:14). Let us pause and consider what God told the ancient Israelites: “You must not follow the crowd in doing wrong … do not be swayed by the crowd to twist justice” (Exodus 23:2NLT).
Kubik believes that UCG knows the way to peace, and yet this is the very church that actively worked to bring dissension and trouble to the Worldwide Church of God as he and his small group of men sat in the 360 Apartments on the Pasadena campus planning on how to take as many members and as much money with them as they could. Then a few years later they fought again over leadership positions and COGWA ruptured off taking well over half the ministry and members with them.

There is no justice in the path UCG is on and never has been.
This world desperately needs God’s truth. Tragically for many, “the way of peace they do not know, and there is no justice in their paths” (Isaiah 59:8ESV). Tough times are ahead. Given that this is a presidential election year, we can anticipate these issues will be inflamed for some time. We can be sure of what Jesus emphasized: “For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light” (Luke 8:17). We must be patient. And we must be faithful.
What are elements of this better way? “What does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?” (Micah 6:8).
This much I can agree with, if only he would do it and reject Herbert's teachings, including British Israelsim 
Let us live a better way! Reject racism. Make peace with God through Jesus Christ and let us all live a life of God-centered love, striving to be an example in these challenging times! 
Will Victor Kubik do what is right and set the example for all the other Churches of God and publicly denounce the racist myth of British Israelism?  Until he does, UCG will NEVER be the "better way."


62 comments:

Anonymous said...

UCG not racist?

HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA! HA HA!

Anonymous said...

Don’t forget Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! And Ha!

Anonymous said...

ALL COG’s are racist. I once befriended a sister that was a refugee from South Africa and was told by my minister that I ‘should not fellowship with her too much’.. (I’m female btw).
At that time I was in the RCG. I’ve also heard similar things from friends who went to the LCG: keep your distance. Disgusting. They want to keep things ‘pure’. And that got me really alarmed..

Did anybody ever notice that the hymnal ‘Glorious things of thee are spoken’ is the exact same music as the old Nazi party anthem? Look it up on the internet and compare them. They’re exactly the same.

Growing up in Europe and partially in Germany, and knowing all too well about Germany’s dark nazi history, it was a complete shock to me when I first heard that hymnal during services.

Sam said...

There are always going to be people of all colors who are racist against other colors. Real change only comes from each individuals effort to change their own heart and mind from a distorted way of thinking. That being said, there are always going to be people who are racist and this is why these riots and protests will do no good just as they have done no good in the past. If individuals are unwilling to change at the core (change themselves), then no amount of coercion, new laws, etc...will amount to anything but empty words. The only ones who gain from this are those who look at it for momentary gain. Politicians both black and white.

Anonymous said...

The COG and race.. Where to begin... Let's start with white Adam. White skin is a recessive trait. It wouldn't make sense to have a white Adam but my YES book only had good white characters. Herman Hoeh/HWA taught all the colors were on the ark but righteous and white Shem was blessed but black Canaan was cursed. White Israelites yadda yadda yadda and then white Jesus is crucified. The COG was founded on racist beliefs and through action and inaction has perpetuated them until this day. Some of the greatest hits are:

Racial purity- No interracial marriage unless your skin tones are close enough together

Racial Representation- How many ministers/leaders are black?

Civil Rights/Equal Rights- Jesus will fix it on his return

When I did go to church two issues always irritated me. One, was the banning of interracial marriage and the second was the attitude that our church was superior and more righteous than all the rest.

To all who still attend and believe your preaching and ushering in the kingdom, the world doesn't care about your message because it finds nothing in you that resembles Christ. You resemble Fox News paired with prophetic gloom and doom. You're hopeless, feckless, and doomed to be an irrelevant footnote in a future book on apocalyptic cults. But for humanity, that is "Good News"

Anonymous said...

Let's see, you call it a "tragic death" while Kubic calls it a "murder", who's the one messed up here?

Level n McMillen said...

11:53 Maybe you should educate yourself before making stupid comments. Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken is not an exclusively Armstrong song. No wonder you were once a member of RCG, not too intelligent!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Things_of_Thee_Are_Spoken

Anonymous said...

"Let's start with white Adam. White skin is a recessive trait."


Only if you believe in evolution. That's a lie presented by the "Out of Africa" crowd!

Since you mention Adam it's difficult to know if you believe the bible or evolution. The bible would indicate your statement being just as racist as those thinking Adam was white. No one knows, and who cares anyway!

Sam said...

June 5, 2020 at 12:45 AM. Why do you lump all of those who attend with the COG's as being bad? Can you read hearts and minds?

nck said...

11:53

For having lived in Germany you are displaying a SHOCKING AND HORRID lack of knowledge regarding that country and its anthem COMPLETELY devaluing the rest of your contribution.

In short..... you know nothing.

Nck

Anonymous said...

Herbert Armstrong is dead but his racist teachings continue today in the acog's.

Anonymous said...

Don't all humans, regardless of race, have about 99% the very same genes? If so, how can one race think that it is superior to another? Wouldn't that be like two billionaires arguing who is richer when one had 10 cents more than the other? The differences are miniscule. I think it's the same with Christian denominations in that what should unite us should overwhelm what details divide us, yet one church claims to the only true church. Why do we so often look at what can be used to divide rather than unite? We do this in our politics, also. We are American first, democrats, republicans, independents, second. Yet, if you don't agree with someone on a political issue . . . . watch out. Is an external threat of some sort going to be necessary for us to come together again?

Anonymous said...

Please, please, please offer proof of what is "no longer required of New Covenant Christians".
PLEASE! All I get is half-baked statements like "after the cross" and allusions to Hebrews and the Last Supper.

nck said...

"my YES book only had good white characters"

Is this why we always had to buy new coloring pencils while the black/darkish color was still as good as new????

nck

Anonymous said...

I note their unfortunate-US&B-prophecy-booklet is still listed oops!

Anonymous said...

Racism is stupid and wrong, but stupid comparisons only make matters worse. For instance:

Don't all humans, regardless of race, have about 99% the very same genes? If so, how can one race think that it is superior to another?

Let me offer you two drinks. They are 99% identical, containing 99 percent pure water. One of the glasses has 1 percent cyanide, while the other has 1 percent orange juice. Are the differences between the drinks "minuscule"? Yes. But are the differences a matter of life or death? Also yes.

Genetically, the bonobo is about equally close to chimpanzees as to human beings. Would you be morally outraged by a bonobo and chimpanzee mating? If not, you should be no more outraged by a bonobo and human being mating. Or you should let go of the idea that this 99% similarity resolves the problem of racism.

Tonto said...

UCG needs to denounce the racist belief that the Germans are the " Assyrians" and are an evil race that will be killing Americans and Brits of all colors.

BI and Assyrianism are both disproven, historically inaccurate and non-Biblical tenets that need to be canned. Although relegated to "dont ask, dont tell" status in general in UCG, it is not totally discarded in deference to the tithe paying membership and ministry that still adhere to the belief. It still receives a "hat tip" and nod, in publications on occasion.

HWA idolatry is generally not super public either in UCG, but still is acknowledged now and then by an article or speaker. It is obvious that these embarrassing remnants of the WCG still exist and no one really knows how to confront those issues publicly, and that the hope is that they just kind of fade away as older ministers and members die off.

It is sort of like the South in the 1960s. There may have been laws against official segregation, but there still existed a de-facto Jim Crow culture, that even now, is just slowly fading away.

wes white said...

UCG does not condone racism? I'd like to believe that, so please help me out here. Vic Kubic, can you please answer the following questions:
1) When a church teaches that interracial dating and interracial marriage go against the Bible, is that a racist teaching? Yes or no?
2) Was HWA's banning of interracial dating and interracial marriage wrong? Yes or no?
3) Has UCG publicly repudiated HWA's teachings on race? Yes or no?
Just give us yes or no answers to the above three questions so we can make the determination as to whether or not UCG promotes racism.
--Wes White

Anonymous said...

The racism inherent in Armstrongism (inherent to the point that if you remove this racism, Armstrongism is completely restructured in theology and practice) is an odd phenomenon and it requires some reflection to understand where Kubik's statements fit in this picture. My observations about racism in Armstrongism:

1. Centralized Racism: This is the doctrinal racism that is driven by British-Israelism. Armstrongists have never revised their views on this. Nobody in their leadership has ever renounced Hoeh, Blackwell or Waterhouse. This backdrop makes Kubik's Op-Ed sound hollow.

2. Decentralized Racism: This is the racism of the average Armstrongist lay member. It has been nurtured on the White supremacist memes that originated with British-Israelism. An ad hoc, conciliatory Op-Ed by Kubik will not reach into the durable and tradition bound heart of populist Armstrongism where this racism resides. Even if Kubik were to make a direct attack on Centralized Racism above, Decentralized Racism would likely survive intact.

3. Atypical Ethnocentrism: The Armstrongist view of race and race relations departs from traditional racism. It focuses not on White Supremacy but on the supremacy of Northwest Europeans. Germans, for example, though classically Caucasian, are demoted because of the bogus identification with Assyria in Armstrongism.

4. Denial: Most Armstrongists would deny that they are racists. To them, the supremacy of the Northwest European people is an act of great benevolence on the part of god (much promoted by Dean Blackwell). For eternity, Northwest Europeans will rule over the other peoples of the world and this is good because Northwest Europeans are the noble, advanced, superior people chosen of god. And critics like us just don't understand this wonderful truth. In my view, this is an open doorway to hypocrisy - what Christ refers to as a whited sepulcher.

When you view the structure of Armstrongist racism in this way, it provides a means to understand where Kubik's Op-Ed fits. It is a bit of transient moralizing that changes neither Centralized or Decentralized racism. It is thin, nearly invisible layer of varnish on a big ugly piece of furniture.

Note: I, too, struggle with some degree of racist thinking. But in my life it does not have the status of workable dogma but of regrettable error.

Anonymous said...

What evidence do you have HA! HA! Anon that UCG is racist?

Anonymous said...

@nck
A lesson in nazi-history for you:

"Horst-Wessel-Lied" (English: "Horst Wessel Song"; pronounced [hɔʁst ˈvɛsl̩ liːt]), also known by its opening words, "Die Fahne hoch" was used as the anthem of the Nazi Party (NSDAP) from 1930 to 1945. From 1933 to 1945 the Nazis made it the co-national anthem of Germany, along with the first stanza of the "Deutschlandlied".[1] Since the end of World War II, "Horst-Wessel-Lied" has been banned in Germany and Austria.”

That very same melody is now used for the hymnal ‘Glorious things for thee ...’

Anonymous said...

@Level ...
Clever and easy comment. Witch tells me two things about you: firstly, that you are extremely biased and second that you’re also resentful. Tsk, tsk, tsk..

Anonymous said...

Look at the official UCG logo and it tells a story. The church has the mistaken notion that the center of this Universe is the British Isles instead of Jerusalem, whereas God’s main interest is centered in Jerusalem. Here are the evidence:
2 Kings 21:4 . . . the Lord said, “In Jerusalem will I put My name.”
2 Kings 21:7 . . . the Lord said to David and to Solomon his son, “In this house and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all tribes of Israel, will I put My name for ever.

taken from a critique here
https://wulfstein.wordpress.com/2020/05/22/a-critique-of-ucgs-pentecost/

Anonymous said...

8:53am How so? Why would I resent anyone who followed Dave Pack? Biased? I guess so. Biased against anyone so stupid not to realize that God destroyed the WCG because of idolatry and anyone going from the frying pan of WCG into the fire of RCG can't be very intelligent imo.

Anonymous said...

8:49am There's a difference between lyrics and melody. The melody for that song is from an old Viennese folk tune from the 1800's. To link the melody with all things Nazi is just plain ignorant!

Tonto said...

The UCG "Council of Elders" , is 100% USA based , with all white ministry. Even the international regional representatives are home based in the USA.

Nearly half of the UCG membership lives AWAY from the USA, yet has no council representation of someone who lives there!

Thousands of black africans are in the UCG, yet not one council member who lives and works in Africa.

Baseball desegregated in 1947 with Jackie Robinson, but it was 30 years later before a black manager was seen in baseball (Frank Robinson). UCG , just like baseball, speaks out against racism, but the real proof will be when they allow empowerment in upper management at the Council level of a minority presence, and representative to the population numbers that are members of the UCG.

UCG , on the international basis, is still practicing a Colonial European plantation mentality to its own members.

Anonymous said...

A small town just south of where I live has an annual Italian festival, the Mexicans in my local community celebrate Cinco de Mayo, many Germans celebrate Oktoberfest, where the hell are you going to draw the line on your racist rhetoric? BI is only racist in your anti-WCG minds. You're all full of bullshit!

Anonymous said...

I've visited several Asia countries and was always treated as an outsider. I believe this to be natural, and not racism as some would label it. According to the parable of the talents, individuals and nations are different. Yet to acknowledge and honor these differences is often met with accusations of racism. And to marry into a very different culture or religion is unwise.
An Asian can never be an English gentleman. That's the way it is.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:30
I don’t think it’s a lack of intelligence. It’s probably more a case of people being gullible. Maybe because they’re vulnerable for some reason at that time in their lives. Cults prey on that, we all know that.
Don’t be so harsh on them.. Everyone deserves respect, regardless how ‘stupid’ they were.

nck said...

Just a big NO you fool.

I am not even going to take time to explain it. This is by far the most ignorant posting ever.

Nck

Anonymous said...

Tonto
You reason around the obvious that you know to push your own agenda. UCG used to have international non USA men on the UCG council of Elders but church wars ended up losing them. You know that already.

What do you want? You get what you want but are still not happy with the result. The cycle continues. What do you want the total destruction of UCG?
You know full well experienced non white,and non USA pastors left with various UCG wars. The pool of men to choose from is very small.

Many consider Victor Kubic to be doing a very good job as President. He is very popular with the UCG membership. He is very social media savvy. But rebels like to side swipe at the whole HQ concept. Why? You cut off the nose to spite the face. Then put the begging bowl out like Oliver Twist.

Anonymous said...

8:49am

I think you're the one desperately in need of a history lesson!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied


kev

Anonymous said...

Wow, the more that I research this the more ignorant our blog Nazi "expert" seems to be. Just listen to this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst-Wessel-Lied


Does that even sound like Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken? No. Because the German National anthem Deutschlandlied uses that melody.

Just listen:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied


See how easily "facts" get twisted when someone can make a false statement authoritatively without being questioned!

kev

the Ocelot said...

Add a couple hundred more "Ha"s for me I'm feeling's a bit lazy tonight and do feel like doin' myself

the Ocelot said...

What did the WCG think about the concept of the Mark of Cain being his skin colour?

the Ocelot said...

They even wanted
men to wear white shirts to services because they represented"purity"

R.L. said...

COGs seem to be changing their views on Dr. King. Jim Franks of COGWA have an Unleavened Bread message this spring that drew primarily from one of Dr. King's final sermons.

Interracial dating and marriage happen in UCG more than some people think. One couple has had two sons marry women of different races in the last two years.

Anonymous said...

The whole "HQ" concept is flawed, and frankly unbiblical. The "headquarters" concept implies that there is a single human organization or human head representing Jesus Christ on earth and is the offspring of the RCC pope notion. It seems that no matter how often we see this system fail we as humans are still attracted to it for some reason.

WCG is a prime example of this. As long as HWA was in place declaring himself "Pastor General" (Chief Shepherd, which should only be used to refer to Jesus Christ 1Peter 5:4), the official representative or "Ambassador of Christ"(Vicar of Christ means the same thing, and he came to view himself as third in line of authority,directly beneath Jesus and God the Father, which isn't any different than a pope), a "voice crying out in the wilderness",etc. then all was well, or so many thought.

The danger in this is that people who followed him came to view him as all these things too, and stopped "proving all things" if it happened to come out of his mouth. In the process they bought into some messed up thought processes because of their idolization of a man. He essentially became untouchable in his own organization because anyone who might openly question a teaching or doctrine he promoted or espoused was immediately silenced and viewed as rebelling against God's Apostle, which was seen as the same thing as rebellion against God Himself. What got lost in all this posturing for control was the growth of grace and knowledge among the brethren, because instead of the words of the prophets being weighed or judged by the other prophets in the room as we see is supposed to happen in 1Corinthians 14:29, one guy effectively declared himself the only prophet or person who was able to speak for God, and everyone else bought into this lie. The issue of whether he was actually right or not was beside the point.

The issues of Pentecost and makeup are prime if overused examples. Instead of these things being studied out and thought through by a multitude of counsel, official church doctrine blew in the wind this way or that way depending on the whim of the guy who resided as the "head" of "headquarters" which wasn't in heaven, where the actual head of the body of Christ resides, but on earth in a place called Pasadena.

The vehement ban on interracial marriage and in some cases even social mixing of Christians who were considered "Israelites" with those considered "Gentiles" is another example of wrong thinking that still circulates among the various COG groups today. Many of the younger people, as well as a few others who have actually studied the issue have renounced this idea, but it still hangs on with many in the older generation. In light of Biblical challenge, some have grudgingly admitted that such unions are not considered "sin", but still have issues with the idea based on some vague notion that "Israelites" shouldn't mix by blood with "Gentiles" even when it is pointed out to them that in accepting Jesus Christ all peoples become the seed of Abraham, effectively canceling out the idea of Gentile vs. Jew. Galatians 3:28-29 It could also be pointed out that this was the case in the Old Testament as well. Ruth's declaration to Naomi illustrates this..."Your people shall be my people, and your God, my God." Ruth1:16 This wrong headed and frankly racist policy among the COGs essentially cancels out the idea that if you are accepted by Christ, then you are family. It's interesting to note that Paul had to address this in the NT congregations as well, and he didn't hesitate to tell Peter to his face that he was wrong. So much for the idea of Peter being a pope. Galatians 2:11-13

Concerned Sister

nck said...

Ocelot.

Just in.
God edited the book of Revelation about those white clothes and saints thingy. Will be changed next edition.
On Mother Mary's intercession black seems to make look women slimmer and is all purpose.

Nck

Anonymous said...

Concerned Sister: I say AMEN to that!

Anonymous said...

Nck
The halo has slipped. Not as on the ball as one once was. Exposing yourself.
Not about the secret powers that influenced Herbert now are we.

Anonymous said...


With about 8+ fake names in the arsenal.
The all white fake name rebel Pastors gang, getting rankled over everything long gone.

Having verbal punch ups with anyone and everyone whilst pretending to be who they are not.

All white people married to all white people with all white decendants wanting to rewrite the church from behind their fake names. But never doing anything about it in real life. Opposite living. Achieving nothing.

What does God think ?

Anonymous said...

"The whole "HQ" concept is flawed, and frankly unbiblical. The "headquarters" concept implies that there is a single human organization or human head representing Jesus Christ on earth and is the offspring of the RCC pope notion. It seems that no matter how often we see this system fail we as humans are still attracted to it for some reason. "


There's a reason for this C.S.

Man is either wanting to rule or be ruled. Just look at civil governments.

Civil governments are the beast of Revelation, with a final world ruling government at the end of the age! Now can you guess what the image of the beast is?

Church government!!!!!!!!!


kev

Anonymous said...

Concerned Sister:

Thanks for the insightful comment. I want to throw my two cents in. I think that the WCG began to depart from adhering to some semblance of Biblical Christianity through the observance of the Holy Days. HWA retained the Holy Days as a practice required for salvation. But then he altered their observance - he "updated" them, if you will. So the modern Armstrongist FoT looks nothing like the FoT that Israel observed.

This administrative modification of something Biblical set a precedent for many other administrative modifications by the WCG over the years. It amounted to a wholesale forsaking of the Biblical foundation - notably a great shift away from the NT and towards the OT, away from Jesus and towards Moses. Gradually, HWA, through administrative decision making, became bigger than the Bible.

This all should have been recognized as a "Biblical crisis" by someone somewhere in history. Just as now we recognize that we have a brewing "Constitutional Crisis." We have a man who in office who wants, among many other attempted departures from the Constitution, to use the U.S. Military indiscriminately against protesting American Citizens - like the leader of some Banana Republic.

I do not believe the Holy Days are a requirement for salvation in the NT. But the way that they were handled in the early history of RCG/WCG was a bellwether for what we see in Armstrongism now - retooling the Bible without compunction.

nck said...

12:50
If you wish. I could return to the old ways.

Look, during the Cold War, gentile race equalled communist.

Remember that and read all the PT copies from 1960-1970.

The key to Revelation.

Nck

Anonymous said...

The Constitution protects peaceful protests, not what we're seeing in the blue cities and states today.

I hope Trump pulls the National Guard out and the police too, for their own safety. The Mayors and Governors don't want them, let them handle it! Let the blue states burn!

I'd love to see ANTIFA come to my Constitutional Carry state!


LET THE BLUE STATES BURN!!!!!!!

jim said...

NEO, i often like your comments; however, talk of Trump Moving away from the Constitution is absurd compared to his predecessor. Obama (I have a pen and a phone) was a tyrant making executive orders and creating agencies and departments that Do not legislate and are not subject to the people.
The constitution believed the legislature was most important and supreme. This is because it makes the government subject more closely to the people.

nck said...

12:50

Especially for you!

In response to the 11:42 racist I would respond that Armstrongism did not concern itself with the "black struggle for social justice unless it was about US dominination of the World economy through class struggle vs communism.

The very first PT's speak about" the yellow peril" rather thsn the black peril.

I have in the past explained how that "prophecy" ir rather clear and present danger worked out in 1942 abd was fulfilled by the attack on Santa Monica.

HOWEVER

Largely forgotten is how IN SYNC with the first massmedia attempts by hwa, FDR wrecked the Chinese Economy between 1933-1935 through control of the silver prices on behest of the superpower, the State of California, prices, went up, chinese exports imploded, the state finance collapsed........ and HWA went on in his spree to serve the Holy Grail........ Whom does it serve....

To your liking 12:50?

Look it up, and start following the trail from 1933.

After the Boxer rising all reparations from China to the West were paid through HSBC bank, virtually enslaving the Chinese people. ........ Yes the same bank that aquired Bricket Wood campus as its training Centre.

Coincidence.............?

Read your US&BiP and you know its all tied up.

One fool on this blog called Bricket Wood the Siberia of Armstrongworld.

It is there that judges of the Word Court of Justice or descendants of Muhammed presiding over the Temple Mount more than often lectured and garner ted prepared his radio show that sponsored the CIA pirate radio ships swaying the hearts and minds of the baby boom generation toward American capitalist music and culture.

The "black" issue was a side note in the bigger struggle.

Nck



nck said...

Look my friend.... while citizens are occupied bowing knees for wronged people of color, the larger issue at stake today is that USAFRICOM reports Russian Mig intercepts in Northern Africa tilting the balance of power in the Mediterranean.

Nck

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 5:17

The new covenant was made with different people. The laws didn't change. The peeps were the problem. If you rented a property you owned to someone, giving them a list of your property rules to follow for the lease and they then trashed your property, you would boot them out ... here comes new renters, same rules with a new contract ... hopefully the new renters won't be like the last ones. The only change was "the renters." Not hard to understand.

Anonymous said...

Could someone please tell me what's required for salvation? Growing up in the WCG I was always taught the only "requirement" for salvation was faith in Jesus Christ. Obedience was merely something that God expected, just like parents expect their kids to obey. I was never taught that obedience earned me a damn thing. Isn't the rewriting of facts amazing?

Anonymous said...

The New Covenant has no laws. The New Covenant in Jesus' blood was established to forgive law breaking. Laws are something required by our Creator, our God, covenants are irrelevant!

If the New Covenant in Jesus' blood required any kind of law keeping, just one instance of disobedience would break that covenant. Instead the NC in Jesus' blood forgives law breaking, it doesn't enforce law keeping. But God does enforce law keeping. The wages of sin is death!

It's not that difficult folks!!!

the Ocelot said...

I'm still waiting for a reply from Germany regarding my application for a job at the meat hook manufacturing plant

Anonymous said...

So UCG is jumping on the bandwagon of decrying the evils of racism? And Kubik is grieving over the abuses of a police officer? But he's not decrying the sins of the church (unless they're outside UCG) or grieving over the abuses of his elders against the sheep of God. How long have the elders had their knees on the necks of members who are waiting to come back? No wonder they had a feud where COGWA broke away.

Anonymous said...

Covenants are irrelevant?
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah" Jeremiah 31:31
There was forgiveness under the old covenant unless Psalm 51 is to be disregarded.

Anonymous said...

9:40pm Oh brother how small some minds are. Irrelevant because God's law exists outside of covenants. God can give us laws because he is our creator, not because he had to make an agreement with us.

Here's something that I tried to explain to a Hebrew Roots fella who said basically the same as you. Obviously he worships a covenant:

All parents have rules for their kids to live by, one such rule might be to clean your room. If the kid has a problem obeying that rule the parent might make a covenant with the kid. (All a covenant is is an agreement) If you clean your room I'll take you out for an ice cream cone. Does that promise of an ice cream cone make the rules any more important? If the kid doesn't clean his room, thereby making that promise void, does that end the parents rule of cleaning the room?

Also, are you telling me that the blood of bulls and goats forgave sin? You really need to study your bible!

nck said...

Blogger the Ocelot said...
I'm still waiting for a reply from Germany regarding my application for a job at the meat hook manufacturing plant


Now that we are approaching the 20th of june (plot to kill hitler) I will remember those that were actually hanged on meathooks.

I visited Ploetzensee prison back in the late eighties after chopping the Wall at Checkpoint Charlie, with the East German guards watching.
The meathooks at Ploetzensee look really gruesome and can be aproached after passing a few vases filled with the ashes of former concentration camp prisoners.

Anyway, that was quite an impressive visit in a time of turmoil when The World Tomorrow was broadcast from St Petersburg next from the office of an obscure civil servant who later came to prominence as Mr Putin.

nck

Anonymous said...

9:40pm The old Mt. Sinai covenant required animal sacrifices. A clear reading of Ps. 51 which you quoted explains that God doesn't desire sacrifice but a pure heart. David's forgiveness came from God himself, the covenants were irrelevant!

You fall into the same trap as the Hebrew Roots folk. You put too much emphasis on the covenants and the law rather than the covenant maker and the law giver!

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 9:40. The new covenant shows the sacrifices (certain ones) will be reinstituted after Christ's return. Read Ezekiel chapters 40-48.
A "clear reading" of Psalm 51 shows a repentant attitude, without which, sacrifice meant nothing. Of course forgiveness came from God, but an unrepentant, turning from God law breaker's prayer, someone not of the covenant, God would not hear.
Many Hebrew Roots followers have more right than those in the old WWCG movement. In regards to placing too much emphasis on the covenants and the law rather than the covenant maker, that's puzzling. How could there be a law or covenant without YHWH, the covenant maker. He is THEE reason followers desire to follow His covenant, just as a wife should desire to follow the covenant made with her husband at marriage. Oh but of course covenants don't matter, right? Such misguided notions some hold to.

Anonymous said...

4:31 So there is no marriage covenant between a husband and wife? If the wife or husband has a problem obeying a rule of marriage, THEN they make a covenant? Huh? Weird! If one of the people in the marriage doesn't follow one of the rules, or doesn't love her/his mate, doesnt show sorrow for improper actions, does that end the contract of the marriage? Yes. Does that end the rules of marriage? No, unless you're in agreement with infidelity while married, indulging in porn while married, ... A person DOESN'T do those wrong things if they love the one they're in covenant with. They don't love the covenant, they love the ONE they're in covenant with!! It's not that hard to understand.
I don't know who told you the blood of bulls and goats forgave sins. Seems you're adding words that no one said.
There is a covenant, sorry if you don't like that word (not really sorry).
I'm finished. After a certain point it's obvious people have blind spots.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, you're finished because you refuse to recognize that you're the one with the massive blind spot. I didn't say that I disliked covenants. I didn't say there are no covenants in the bible. I said that God's law exists outside of covenants. A covenant isn't what makes God's law binding upon us. The fact that He created us makes his law binding. You argue because your mind is too simplistic to understand. Hebrew Roots folk are like elementary school kids trying to understand college material. Psalm119 ministry is a joke yet so many former WCG people fall for their b.s.

As I said, you and they are blind to the fact that you worship the covenant and the law rather than the covenant maker and the law giver! Your denial of that is irrelevant!

It's sad when a person feels they must be under some kind of covenant before they'll obey God. Goodbye!

Anonymous said...

btw that New Covenant that you mention is with Israel and Judah exclusively!

I actually had a Hebrew Roots fella tell me that we're not under the New Covenant today. I asked him about what Jesus called the New Covenant in his blood, sounds like a New Covenant to me. The word means renewed, and no it's not a renewal of the Mt. Sinai covenant it's a renewal of the Everlasting covenant. Sinai was temporary according to Gal. 3.

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey, goodbye!