Our favorite self-appointed Messiah to the nation of Africa had a meltdown the other day when we picked on his attendance figures. Nothing gets Bobiniah Thiel's goat more than being mocked by this bog. He expects COG members to roll over and lap his theological vomit up like pigs at the slop trough, but we will not. We are all supposed to be impressed by him.
Never has a COG leader been dreamed about more, been doubly blessed, come out as Joshua, Nehemiah, Zechariah, Zephaniah, Ezekiel, and eventually will be the end time witless witness where he will be killed and resurrected in the streets of Jerusalem.
We should all be standing in awe of him and joining his one true Philadelphian Church of God! Yet in spite of all the double blessings, fantastical self-appointments, and direct revelations from the god of this world, he has only been able to influence 99 American followers, out of 382 million Americans, into joining up with him.
Imagine being the most amazing Church of God in the 21st century with a leader that is doubly blessed, and yet, it can only gather 99 members in the entirety of the United States, 10 members in the entire nation of Canada, 2 members on the entire European continent, and 6 on the Asian continent. Imagine being such a weak and impotent Church of God as this. Herbert Armstrong would be so embarrassed! This has to be the most pathetic thing I have ever seen.
According to Bob Thiel, the Continuing Church of God now has 5,275 people, over 5,000 of whom are in Africa:
Australia 6,
Austria 1,
Canada 10,
Colombia 2,
Ethiopia 88,
Ghana 400,
Haiti 20,
India 80,
Ireland 1,
Kenya 3280,
Malawi 804,
Mozambique 281,
Netherlands 1,
New Zealand 6,
Philippines 12,
Serbia 6,
South Sudan 50,
Tanzania 65,
Trinidad & Tobago 1,
Uganda 8,
UK 4,
USA & Puerto Rico 99,
Zambia 50,
TOTAL 5275.
58 comments:
LOL! The shrinking church of god!
GDP per capita is around $30 a week in Kenya, where the bulk of Boobys followers live.
I hope that he is not insisting that they have to cough up potentially triple tithes and offerings to the "work of the Great Prophet Booby".
The $30 a week figure is the "average", meaning that 50% of the population is living on even less than that. They are living on a subsistence level, with very poor health care and educational abilities.
Does Thiel teach these people that they have to tithe on gross or net income in some fashion? How is the economics of Thiels "empire" handled with his impoverished third world following?
These days people prefer to support a 'Non-prophet Organization'
Well it's not like he's "going to lost sheep of the House of Israel". I mean for a guy that is Ephraim and Manasseh minded, he's missed the mark. Perhaps he should rename himself Shaman Shaka Zulu so as to be a better "all things to all men".
Big Bwana Bob...........Thou takes thyself FAR to seriously.
Learn to loosen up.......... and flush twice after you have been................
Canada: 10. And a few days ago we thought LCG's 874 members in Canada was insignificant!
An op-ed in the Wall Street Journal called for Dr Jill Biden to drop the "Dr" as it seemed to be a political statement. Does the Dr prefix and PhD suffix give Bobus any more credibility?
Although RCM bounced between use, abuse and unuse of his doctorate, the only WCG minister it seemed okay with was Dr Hoeh. And I don't recall either postscripting their names. I think Bobus should drop the pre and post doctorus.
Of course the most lampooned preacher who hung out his doctor's shingle is the YEC and former inmate Dr Kent Hovind. Unlike Bobus's PhD (yet apparently like his ThD) Kent's degree was from a diploma mill that ran from a trailer.
Why is it always a numbers game with most COG organizations? Is it that most of them really don't teach much of The Bible, and get people focused on membership numbers and doing "THE WQRK"? The work being whatever they think it is at any point and time.
The CCOG is supposedly doing "the final phase of the work". That proves it's only a work of a man or men. When does God's work ever end? The fact is that it doesn't.
“My God is bigger than your statistics!”
I feel a song coming on....
99 members in the USA! 99 members attend!
Football's on, so one more is gone....
98 members in the USA!
But seriously: if you're going to nitpick Dr. Thiel, can't you at least fix that misspelling of Jeremiah?
I do not see Jeremiah anywhere in the post above. What are you nitpicking about?
Serbia is in Europe, people. Correct your post numbers.
5:27 "Serbia is in Europe, people. Correct your post numbers."
Take a chill pill and relax dude! This does not negate the fact that Thiel's cult is the most pathetic COG to ever exist, well maybe except for the looneytunes in Pasadena that broke off and said the egrets were going to come alive and carry the sacred auditorium to Petra. But Thiel's membership numbers are pathetic, just like his beliefs. I guess that is why no one likes him.
Serbia is actually a landlocked land that is a mixture of European and Russian (asian) bloodlines, Christian and Muslim.
11.52 AM
In my view, only medical doctors should legally have a Dr. title before their name. Their contribution to others makes them worthy of that honor.
There are technical achievements in many areas of life where people have excelled, but are given no title. It seems that the men of letters have hijacked the system. Great musicans, film directors, tradesmen, military leaders etc, can go eat cake.
Bob recently posted 'no real member of the CCC celebrates Christmas'. So the numbers listed may not all be real members? Are some fake members? Some 'Christmas celebrating' fake members? Well apparently there are some among the SDAs.
a common error people make is in thinking that numbers = legitimacy....it seems to me that the larger the group, the less likely it is that the truth is being taught....just look at the mega-churches out there, it's clear from what they are teaching that they don't know God. (sure, they teach "peace love and group hugs", but they have their own definitions for "peace" and "love")
Jesus' flock is a little flock....groups of 2 0r 3 here, 6 or 7 there, scattered all over the planet make up His flock...and there could be larger groups in/near population centers..
to say that Dr. Bob doesn't have any true Church members associated with him would be rather presumptuous ....as would poking fun at him for having low numbers...
God puts people in the Church as He sees fit...how He does that is not known to me.
6.13 AM
Do parents put their kids in any old school, or do they try to pick the best for their children? If you believe that God would put people in Dave Packs church or Bob's church, you've a very mistaken.
The Church is not called a little flock. Jesus used that term one time speaking to his disciples in a small group...a little flock to whom he was speaking at that time, but not a "little flock" of the totality of believers.
Hate to burst your COG bubble Anon 6:13, but NONE of the COG’s are churches.. All of them are abusive Bible based cults. It is determined by what they teach, by how they treat the flock and by their minister’s behavior. Nothing Christian about it.
Calling the COG’s ‘Christian’ is a blasphemy.
thinking that numbers = legitimacy
True, it's just a head count. I've seen Protestant churches that put up a weekly attendance and total offering.
And yes, why would a "small flock" boast number of members? "The biggest little COG in Arroyo Grande!"
Does Thiel teach these people that they have to tithe on gross or net income in some fashion?
I think the old WCG only required tithe on gross for the USA. I recall a well-off Swede at the FOT in the UK who was exempt of all tithes as his income was said to be taxed at 90%. [of course he could have had a million dollar income...]
I imagine the poor members are recipients of donations, and some on 3rd tithe. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Bob lectured them on how he paid tithes while unemployed [which I believe the WCG considered exempt].
Along with the title "Doctor" comes a whopping big salary $$$,$$$.¢¢
...just like Dr Tkach's heart-stopping ginormous salary...
"Not many humans now are called
Into the Church of Bobus
Not any mighty informed ones
For you see your calling...
Sons of Bob, You are called
Not because of knowledge
You who are called make Bob feel good
Be glad he has no collllllege!"
:)
Some COG members seem to be proud of their ‘small flock’. Claiming that Christ talked about ‘a small flock’.
“No more than 700” if I recall David Pack’s words. For some it seems to be kind of an honorary title: the smallest flock in the COG’s.
jim said...
The Church is not called a little flock. Jesus used that term one time speaking to his disciples in a small group...a little flock to whom he was speaking at that time, but not a "little flock" of the totality of believers.
For years, the church of God has used this verse as an excuse for why they failed in the Matt 28:19 commission "Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples". The KJV says "teach all nations", but the verb "teach" is, in the Greek, the verb form of disciple. In other words, the commission is to "disciple-ize" all nations, a commission LCG has failed miserably at. RCM's plan was to teach the nations (mostly via television) and let God do the rest. LCG would then be there once they are called. (we in LCG don't want to do the nitty-gritty work of helping people transform their lives -- that's God's work) It got so bad that RCM more than once stated his intention to disobey Isaiah 58:1 "Cry aloud, spare not; Lift up your voice like a trumpet; Tell My people their transgression, And the house of Jacob their sins." saying "we in LCG can't speak out loudly against things like abortion and homosexuality, lest we be taken off the air." So, RCM was more interested in his own commission ("preach the gospel as a witness"), where his only accountability is TV viewers, than he was in doing God's will ("Cry aloud, spare not" and "make people followers and students of Jesus"). Fortunately, LCG has moved away (somewhat) from that erroneous RCM policy toward a more Biblical approach.
To the skeptic of "Jeremiah": please check the photo with this post.
Agree wholeheartedly 2:40.
Does anyone know how many people there are in ALL the splinters together? Is it roughly the amount that the old WWCG had? Way less? Or maybe more?
To me it seems that the numbers are coming down fast. Is it only because of age or also because of younger people leaving? And where do the younger ones go? Into ‘the world’ or to other splinters? And how many splinters are there by now? I’ve come across splinters of splinters..
Anyone?
" ...Matt 28:19 commission "Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples". "
make disciples FROM all nations....not convert the entire nation.....remember, until God calls, nothing preached to them will make any sense...
The Church takes the gospel to all nations, God calls whom He will into The Church.
LCG Expositor -- yes, all too right. The "little flock" verse is not cited in context, "making disciples" in all nations has been replaced by "shows a hit on our website", "cry aloud" is now "cry censorship". Making "disciples for Jesus" has always been "getting people on our mailing list". And on, and on...
There are perhaps about 25k to 30k total for all splinter groups combined.
WCG had upwards to 140k attending the FOT at its peak. Thus there has been about a 80% fall off.
Thanks, Feastgoer. Fixed it!
The meme maker doesn't spell-check.
Tonto wrote:
There are perhaps about 25k to 30k total for all splinter groups combined.
WCG had upwards to 140k attending the FOT at its peak. Thus there has been about a 80% fall off.
Comparing FOT attendance then and now isn't the best measure. Today, many brethren attend Feast sites of two or even three groups during one Feast of Tabernacles, which means they may be double-counted as part of two groups' total attendance. Forty years ago, people didn't attend both a WCG and a CGI site.
Also, as for the 144K or so who attended a WCG FOT site at its peak, remember that these included children and unconverted family members coming along for the vacation. Ordinary weekly Sabbath attendance of baptized WCG members was never much above 100K.
U.S. weekly Sabbath attendance of the major WCG splinters is under 15,000. Add the "living room church" people and the one-pastor, one-location groups and you might double that number.
I've heard that about half a million people were baptised into the WWCG. In the late 1970s when I joined, a long time member told me that only a third of members in his spokesmen club photo were still attending services. Which implies that the half a million figure is roughly right.
That half a million figure is what the church estimated had passed through its doors over the decades it was in existence. That estimate was made in the Mid 90's
This also means that the church has always had a HUGE attrition rate in members leaving over the decades, including the glory days of the 50's and 60's when so many think the church was perfect.
"HUGE attrition rate in members"
Once people find out it's constant arm twisting for more money, and oh how they wasted money: concerts for the rich, dumb glossy magazines, Epicurean dining expanding Herbert's waistline....
In reference to a comment about the title "Doctor" and the use of degree initials after one's name, Anon Dec. 15 at 2:40 says, "In my view, only medical doctors should legally have a Dr. title before their name. Their contribution to others makes them worthy of that honor."
Yes, this is one common understanding, and if we all understood and accepted it, everything would be fine. However, the history of the word reveals it has diverged into more than one usage, and this is only one of them. The root "doc/duc," as in "doc-tor" and "e-duc-ator" derives from the Latin "ducere," meaning to draw or lead. In the Middle ages the "doctor" form came to be applied to persons who had studied as far as one could go in a particular field of study. Such a person was thought to be qualified to teach (lead others through) the field. Medicine was not yet established as one of the fields. The title was only loosely associated with contributions to others. Doctor Faustus was an alchemist, for example.
In those days, bones were set and blood was let by barbers. The practice of medicine was a trade, comparable to making shoes or milling grain. Writings on medical topics had accumulated since ancient times, but medical practitioners were not required to study them. Even though medicine became a field of study in the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, medical doctors had trouble shaking off the impression they were glorified barbers. So they started emphasizing their credentials as doctors.
Gradually the meaning "credentialed medical practitioner" became more prominent than the "teacher" one. However, the Baptist and Methodist preachers where I grew who had doctoral degrees insisted on the "Doctor" honorific, to assure congregants this wasn't just some jackleg preacher. Also in the 2nd-tier college I attended, students were expected to address teachers with PhDs as "Doctor," but those with Master's degrees as "Mr.," "Miss," or "Mrs." In more prestigious (better funded) institutions where all teachers from Assistant Professor on up are simply assumed to have PhDs, hardly anybody bothers with honorifics and everybody uses plain names.
In any case, it looks like Bob Thiel wants everyone to think he is not merely some jack-leg preacher, in spite (because) of the fact that anybody who watches a few minutes of one of his videos can tell at once that he is.
Russians are European nation, even though much of their territory occupies Asian parts. They are Caucasian European, Slavic people, even in the Russian Federation there are also other ethnic groups, some of them Asian. Serbs do not have Asian bloodline, that's nonsense. I am not saying this because of some Nationalism or dislike of Asians. We are all God's creatures. But you are just talking nonsense. The same about the mixture of Christians and Muslims - ethnic Serbs are 94% Christians (mostly nominal, unfortunately), the rest are atheists. There is an ethnic minority, Bosniaks, who are Muslims. Also, most of the Gypsies are Muslim. Why do you feel called to talk about the things you know nothing about? It would be like me talking about Sri Lanka, for example.
And, by the way, I do not support Thiel or Armstrongism at all.
Retired Prof
Thank you for the history lesson. So a person with a doctorate in literature can have Doctor as part of his/her name, but a skilled musician who spent decades maturing his or her skill cannot. And no fancy name title for Steven Spielberg or George Lucas. I doubt that this will be permitted in the millennium.
It is amazing that given the numbers on how sparse they are, Flurry gets enough $$$ to pay himself, but a jet and run his "college"
Dec. 16 at 5:32, the situation is not so unfair as you suggest. The title "Doctor" is for us nerdy studious types. A skilled musician gets the honorific "Maestro"--a title appropriate to the flair that no mere literature or even physics teacher could ever hope to attain. No comparable honorific has yet been devised specifically for directorial geniuses such as Spielberg or Lucas, but somehow I doubt they suffer from the lack.
The subject reminds me of a story, if you can forgive a personal reference. When our daughter was maybe 3 or 4 years old, she came home from a medical checkup talking about her doctor. She was impressed. My wife said, "Your daddy's a doctor too. Did you know that?"
The daughter looked up wide-eyed and said, "Oh Dad, really?" I nodded modestly. "The kind that makes people feel better?"
I had just finished grading a set of tests. I said, "No, the kind that makes them feel worse."
Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Matthew 11:28-30 RSV
12.08 AM
We are not mind readers. What's your point?
the ACOG-PSALM
The Titheslaves are our Mealticket - we shall not want -
We live in great mansions that reach to the sky,
And tell them they too will be rich when they die.
We call ourselves 'doctors' & say that we dream,
And find there's no shortage of suckers to ream.
..surely Bristol Cream & Dom Perignon shall flow all our days..
"The situation is not as unfair as you suggest."
Prof, the title Maestro is not part of a person's legal name. The same with directorial genius. I'm sure that Steven Spielberg doesn't have the name "Directorial Genius Steven Spielberg" on his calling card. Why can't you admit that nerds have rigged the system in order to exalt themselves with a fancy pants title?
Calling someone Maestro reminds me of the Seinfeld episode The Maestro.
"a fancy pants title"
So how many have appropriated HWA's title, Pastor General? Did Bob ever use that title, or is he content being Overseer?
Words such as "Mister," "Mrs.", "Miss," "Doctor," "Justice," "Sergeant," "President," and so on, are not part of a person's legal name either. They are honorifics that precede the legal name.
99 members a year is a hell of a lot more than the PCG could even dream of getting.
For Bob Thiel to use the word "Overseer" as his title, is disgustingly offensive to Blacks in Africa. Overseers were the white landowners in the US and elsewhere that kept slaves captive and beat them for minor offenses. Overseer has horrific negative connotations, but Bob Thiel is too arrogant or too stupid to realize that and thus keeps using the racist title. He has to keep his blacks in Africa in line and obedient towards him. Big white Bwana is in charge!
Thiel has to be a bigger buffoon than Raymond McNair was. I bet if HWA were alive today he would call Theil, Buffy.
I find it funny that Thiel can only find 4 members in England. He has a horrible repution there with LCG members, the people he tried to collect members form.
David Pack walked away with the title Pastor General. Or sometimes he refers to himself as ‘the greatest prophet’.
For Bob Thiel to use the word "Overseer" as his title, is disgustingly offensive to Blacks in Africa.
You don't understand African poverty. Millions in Africa will happily call you "Overseer" if you send them a couple of modern laptop computers.
11:54 AM said...
So how many have appropriated HWA's title, Pastor General? Did Bob ever use that title, or is he content being Overseer?
CORRECTION HWA misappropriated Christ’s title as Pastor General and some of his have followed suit.
Prof
Why not go all the way by calling yourself:
Mighty Highness, HE-man, Retired Prof PhD.
2 members on the entire European continent? No, far more than that!
You do seem to be counting Austria and Netherlands, which are indeed in Europe.
It’s already been pointed out that Serbia is also in Europe - I should like to confirm that both Ireland and the UK are also in Europe. (The UK may not wish to be part of the EU, but cannot avoid being part of the European continent!).
On Bob’s figures that makes a total of 13. With this adjustment Bob’s European group has had sudden gigantic growth of 650%, from 2 to 13.
Anonymous Dec. 17 at 3:54 PM said:
"Prof
Why not go all the way by calling yourself:
Mighty Highness, HE-man, Retired Prof PhD."
It would damage my brand to refer to myself that way, that's why not. When people following current fashion ask me what pronoun to apply to me, I advise them to use the indefinite pronoun "No One." It means I am above the law.
However, in this case I will follow the example of Herbert W Armstrong. When one of his disciples declared that he was an apostle, he accepted the compliment and did not put a stop to the practice.
Until now I did not realize you were one of my disciples, but I happily accept the compliment. Go ahead and use that title. Lots of flair in it.
sudden gigantic growth of 650%, from 2 to 13
Statistics like that support Bob's claim to be the "fastest growing" COG. He's also probably basing his stats from the time when he had only a handful of members - let's see what annual growth is like in the next year.
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