Several years ago during the LCG summer camp season, some of our teens were told that their ministers were the main authority over them, not their parents. We immediately checked to confirm this and the ministry did confirm it, and then we simply picked up the kids and took them away, and reassured them that it was NOT these LCG ministers' right. Several families from here have not attended LCG since.
Sheldon Monson, that weakling hireling was aware of it and he himself waffled several times on it. I think he did know better from the Bible, but he had already made some serious compromises to remain in LCG as a fatcat paid minister, so he did not take the position he should have. Let's see how he and his staff handle things.
I'm sure the LCG ministers will put a church speak spin on it if it comes up, just like they did on the tragic death of the young lady from Australia in the water skiing accident. I've been water skiing countless times, and I say that at the very least criminal negligence was involved. One minister named Dave Campbell who was trained with UCG and was with LCG for a short time now has his own group. Well, his answer, without God and without heart about why the girl was killed was: "Oh, that's a simple answer. Time and chance as the Bible says in Ecclesiastes 9." How vile and cruel!
When pressed, these ministers cannot handle being held to account. Remember, they are either at your throat, or they're at your feet. the worst they can do is to throw you out of their group. Contrary to what they might say, they can never take your name from the lamb's book of life.
33 comments:
The ministers are guilty of avarice, defined as "excessive desire for wealth or gain."
The authoritarian structure of the COGs have always attracted a certain type of personality who crave power, get a sick pleasure out of meddling in the lives of others, and feel entitled to a respect that they could never actually earn on their own merits. And they'll never stop using the threat of "Do everything I say or God is gonna git ya and you'll be sorry!" as their bludgeon.
Control over others goes on in all the groups. The authoritarian groups are more outspoken about it. But don't be deceived the liberal ones too want to completely control lives. They are simply more subtle about control.
That practically all ministers use cult tactics must mean that they are given under the table instruction on there use. Ploys such as "doctrine over person" and "dispensing of existence" etc, wouldn't work unless universally applied.
It makes one wonder what really goes on in these so called minister "refresher programs."
Using faux authority in a setting when children are separated from their parents to tell them the ministry is above their parents sounds like something a cesspool of pedophiles would do.
An aspect that may be in play here is that being a minister or even in a non-employed roll and sent on weekly assignments by the COG as I was can be lucrative. The great mileage and meal reimbursement is enough to make a monthly car payment. When I left I definitely had to adjust my budget due to the lost cash that I had grown accustomed to, and I think some of the recipients of such reimbursements are reticent to stand up because of the risk of losing the reimbursements.
In the end, if you are not the "authority" of your own life, and need someone to "hold your hand" and "be your Daddy", about the things of life, then you need to reevaluate yourself and why you are so dependent.
There is a time, when you are maturing, when mentoring and coaching are valuable. For it too have any permanence, one must make the habits and disciplines of life become ones own, without the need of the external force to motivate.
That which is not derived from the internal enlightenment, is thus dependent on outsider stimulus and pressure in order to function. It will always result in dependency, and forever remaining a child, and without self actualization.
They were incredibly boring and nothing like this was ever taught at the. The topics were mundane and shallow. I got up in one session and went to a rock and gem show instead.
Anon 7:07 AM
Talking about mileage and meal reimbursementm these ministers must suffer now!!! With the pandemic, many of them spent half of this year stuck at home. No visits, no services.
Maybe that's why field ministers want to restart visits in person and services asap (more money in their pocket), while HQ wants to push for online visits (less spendings) and is not rushing to restart services in some areas.
Dennis
All churches try to protect themselves from possible legal action, so overt teaching of immoral ploys will be shunned. It's like the mafia who use code words to give themselves plausible deniability. I've caught ministers using identical non biblical abusive wording, so informal instruction among the ministers must be present.
I assume this is the reason for the non disclosure agreement that ministers must sign in order to get their termination payout.
They were incredibly boring
says Dennis, forgetting the infamous refresher at which Pasadena leadership very nearly lost the entire French church had they not backed down on a ruling about married couples sharing oral sex.
That wasn't my personal experience 923. If I got schooled in it, I missed it in my naivete'. I don't recall signing a non-disclosure agreement but it may have been imbedded in all the other BS paperwork.
I have told this before but when I showed my termination papers to a lawyer just to be sure I understood it and had only 10 days to sign it or else loose any severance, they returned it to me and said..."This is a church? You better sign. You're fucked"
Tonto
Using biblical wording, being the "authority" of your own life means building ones house on a rock. By contrast, child like dependence on ministers is building ones house on sand. And we all know how those who built their house on sand fared when new Daddy Joe Tkach came along.
It's independence, not dependence that's a virtue.
As far as the RCG conferences, there is little ministerial material covered. It is a lot of updates about their HQ departments (which has nothing to do with field ministering) and a lot of Dave Packs prophecy nonsense. There are usually a couple ministerial lectures but they are really non-specific and basically a 60 minute sermon. The ladies cover better material. You would think they would make better use of the time but they don't. It's probably just an opportunity for Dave to see all his ministers in person.
No paedophiles do the opposite stoned Stephen. Paedophiles are well known to try and befriend children's parents rather than set themselves up in rival authority.
Overheard the next conversation a few years ago during fellowshipping.
Young woman #1: ‘I would love to go to the theatre and see it’ (talking about a stage play in our local theatre).
Young women #2: ‘Mr X (our minister) would never allow it!’
Young woman #1: ‘I know.. It sucks.’
And she never went to see that play, BECAUSE our minister didn’t allow it. That is the level of control in the COG’s.
Agree 10:37
@12:25
by hook or by crook
Tonto's comments hit the nail on the head. Whatever authority these folks think that they have only becomes real when other folks accept the notion that they have such authority! Scripture lists many duties and responsibilities for ministers (servants), but denies them any right to lord it over their flocks. If one covets power and authority, they shouldn't even be in God's Church (and there are plenty of opportunities for both outside of it)! As Tonto implied, each one of God's saints is expected to pursue God's will and follow it when no one else is looking and should be focused only on what God thinks of their performance. We always get into trouble when we surrender our will to ANYONE other than God. Righteousness and unity are inspired by the Holy Spirit and originate within each heart - they can't be imposed on us by another human.
Yes, Anonymous of December 9, 2020 at 9:56 AM, I recall the great oral sex scare. However, I do not remember which minister told me about the crisis.
Evidently, we have Dibar Apartian to thank for saving oral sex; reportedly he stuck to his guns and warned that if the churched banned it, the entire French church would leave.
The entire crisis occurred because of the WCG’s butchery of the Bible. Herbie and Spanky never knew when to take verses literally or figuratively, so when they read "let us not love in tongue" in 1 John 3:18, they saw an opportunity to exact cruel punishment and power over the people.
It's hard to distinguish whether the repressed sexuality led to the over-baring, authoritarian government, or the other way around. However, you can always depend on the COGs to mangle scripture.
Well, as a salute to the French church members and I am one, the Bible does speak of the gift of tongues.
Hi, I quit lcg in 2017 finally got the nerve to tell my parents how as a child I thought satan would take me over if I had "ANY" bad thought or feelings as a child victim of armstrongism. When I told them that they say...
I should have taught you God's word better I tell them I could not believe them cuz the minister outranked them LOL shame it took until almost 40 but while I still practice some of the acog ways I will not be told what to think, what god to worship (the one they teach is not the true loving God of the bible from what I've seen) nor that a calendar 1500 years out of date shall be followed even tho even the Jews say we know it's not right but until there's a sanhedrin what can you do :shrug: ?
I'm glad someone messed up and used plain words instead of the cultic code words that acog has been using for decades.
Good luck to the children trapped in any of the acog Bible based,fear induction, thought reforming separatist, bigoted cults cuz they sure will need it.
I am off to order a free refurbished laptop for blind people and who knows maybe find a pro at mind fixing that was a cult member (my current councilor while good (his brother was in "the way") he cannot get some of what armstrongism does to people's minds
Stephen :) 👨🦯
"Several years ago during the LCG summer camp season, some of our teens were told that their ministers were the main authority over them, not their parents."
These fools mimic the worldly government in that they declare they 'own' your children. Perhaps they want to open a pedophilia club for due paying ministers. The question is, who's playing the role of Epstein in this scheme?
Concerning the oral sex scare.
It was during a refresher session in Pasadena. Raymond McNair was the speaker. During his talk, the subject of oral sex came up. Raymond commented he found it distasteful. Who knows if he meant the subject or the act. Raymond was called Buffy for a reason. Anyway Carn Catherwood made the comment that the whole French church would leave if oral sex was banned. Anyway between what Raymond said and Carn’s comment the whole class broke up laughing. That pretty much ended Raymond’s talk.
Jim-AZ
God bless the French.
There was a scary weirdo on the staff of one of the teen SEP camps in Alaska way back in the WCG days who would get this gleam in his eyes when he told the campers about most of them were very far away from their homes and he didn't mind giving spankings. To other people's teenagers. He may be long dead by now and I can't remember his name, but he was the one of the guys in charge of the riflery activities.
A little attention paid to personal hygiene will take care of the “distasteful” problem.
The only remedy for the COGs’ intrusion into your private affairs is to extricate your whole family from their authority by leaving and not looking back.
Personally I agree with McNair and prefer not to engage in oral or anal sex with my partner. I believe the penis is for the vagina and vice versa. Like someone else said on this blog a while back re anal sex, “I don’t want poopoo on my peepee.” But, if others want to have oral or anal sex that’s between them and their sex partner. Is oral or anal sex a sin? Idk and again if both husband and wife choose to engage in that activity that’s between them and God. Some have interpreted various passages in Songs I think as alluding to oral sex. Anyway it’s like masturbation to me. I recall HWA condemned solo masturbation, but mutual masturbation was fine. When I learned later how the former and latter aren’t even mentioned in the Bible I realized the contradiction in HWA’s doctrine and so have changed my view re masturbation ie it’s not a sin period and up to the individual or couple who choose the sexual activity appropriate for them🤷♂️
The COG’s are full of scary weirdos on the staff and ministry..
LCG reveals itself to be a cult by trying to control the sex lives and children of members.
Agree 11:27.
The only way these FALSE PROPHETS can hold on to members (money) is by using LIES, SCARE TACTICS, and CONTROL! New lipstick on the same old pig!! The BLIND continue to lead the BLIND and it is only a matter of time before the BOTH fall in the ditch!! These FALSE prophets are all PAWNS of Satan!!
Absolutely false! While there are many in the COG ministry that feel it their responsibility to “teach” others children, that is NOT the culture promoted by Sheldon Monson. The ministry should be there as a support system for parents and their children. But it is 100% the responsibility of the child’s parent to raise their own children in the way they should go.
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