Jim O'Brien (Church of God, Cincinnati) says that as Christian people we need to understand we are at war. The world is reeling around us and the United States is in election turmoil, unlike any other election we have seen. Society and church members are depressed. COVID has wreaked havoc on society, businesses, and churches. As usual, the gays are behind a lot of the problems O'Brien sees in the world.
So where does O'Brien turn to? Does he look to Jesus for comfort and ways to cope in this weird world? Nope! He looks back at the law, Moses, Nehemiah, and fasting. Fasting in the old covenant was a time of lamentation and the visible presence of sackcloth and ashes. Contrast that with the new covenant where Jesus is the focus and the focus is upon joy and feasting:
...in the Old Testament individual and corporate lamentations were often accompanied by fasting. Likewise, in the only legislated fast, the people of Israel afflicted themselves on the day of atonement (see Lev. 16:29–31; 23:27–32). In short, because of God’s absence, the people of Israel fasted. This would also explain why the disciples of John the Baptist fasted. He was, in Jesus’s words, the greatest son born under the old covenant (Matthew 11:11), but now that the bridegroom has come, fasting has been replaced with feasting. This is exactly the point of Matthew 9:14–15,
Then the disciples of John came to him, saying, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?” And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.
Just as John the Baptist himself said: Jesus is the bridegroom, John is the friend of the bridegroom, the one who prepares the way for the groom to receive his bride (John 3:25–30). Hence, the relationship between John and Jesus—and the difference between John’s fasting and Jesus’s feasting, is eschatological and covenantal. It is not simply a matter of personal ministry styles.
Accordingly, when Jesus answers the question about fasting, he reveals an important truth—his presence means the cessation of fasting. A New Covenant Perspective on Fasting
Armstrongism has always placed its emphasis upon old covenant laws and rules, all easily laid out in plain view as a schoolmaster writing on a chalkboard. Perhaps, during difficult times, the focus can be made upon the good and joyful things in life that are always present, even in the darkest of times. Those little epiphanies display the grandeur of God far more than bemoaning the evils in the world and actually lift people out of their depressed state of being where they dwell in negativity.
Jim O'Brien writes:
Hi Friend,
During the past few months the world we live in has changed dramatically. Formerly we were accustomed to living in a country with freedom to worship God, where leaders invoked the Bible, the name of God, and revered the God of the Bible. All those freedoms are now being threatened.
Sociologists declare that we live in a post-Christian world. The Bible is ridiculed, and Christians are accused of using hate speech for advocating a moral lifestyle. As a result, marriage is threatened, the family is undermined, and parental rights are rapidly diminishing. The state is the new parent.
Many churches are closed. There can be severe fines and even jail sentences for attending a funeral, celebrating marriage or just attending church and singing hymns to God.
We are watching American cities being burned and innocent people attacked.
As spiritual people we understand that this is a religious war and we need to use spiritual weapons to combat the enemy. This war may be new to us, but it is not new to the people of God. The Apostle Paul wrote, “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” (Ephesians 6:12)
After church this past weekend, I reflected on several comments about a spirit of depression that is covering the world. For this reason, I decided to read the Book of Nehemiah, the Prophet who faced depression after the destruction of Jerusalem.
Nehemiah’s solution was to fast and pray. His prayer is recorded for us.
“Lord, the God of heaven, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with those who love him and keep his commandments, let your ear be attentive and your eyes open to hear the prayer your servant is praying before you day and night for your servants, the people of Israel. I confess the sins we Israelites, including myself and my father’s family, have committed against you. We have acted very wickedly toward you. We have not obeyed the commands, decrees and laws you gave your servant Moses.
“Remember the instruction you gave your servant Moses, saying, ‘If you are unfaithful, I will scatter you among the nations, but if you return to me and obey my commands, then even if your exiled people are at the farthest horizon, I will gather them from there and bring them to the place I have chosen as a dwelling for my Name.’
“They are your servants and your people, whom you redeemed by your great strength and your mighty hand. Lord, let your ear be attentive to the prayer of this your servant and to the prayer of your servants who delight in revering your name.” (Nehemiah 1:5-11)
Nehemiah did not simply point the finger at other people. Remember, he said that not only had Israel sinned, but the sins “myself and my father’s family, have committed against you.”
Let us, who believe in the God who led Israel out of slavery—the God who founded America—confess our sins before God and believe that He will hear our prayers and protect the “elect” that He has chosen.
When Solomon dedicated the temple to God, he knew man would sin. Solomon prayed to God before all the people, “When [your people] sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to a land far away or near; and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their captivity and say, ‘We have sinned, we have done wrong and acted wickedly’; and if they turn back to you with all their heart and soul in the land of their captivity where they were taken, and pray toward the land you gave their ancestors, toward the city you have chosen and toward the temple I have built for your Name; then from heaven, your dwelling place, hear their prayer and their pleas, and uphold their cause. And forgive your people, who have sinned against you.” (2 Chronicles 6:36-39)
God has blessed us with the freest country ever to exist in which to live. We have lived in wealth without threat from foreign enemies. We have been blessed with justice. Therefore, we take wealth and justice as a natural part of life—we take them for granted without considering the urgent need to “cry out to God” as Moses and the Prophets did.Now these blessings are threatened. Many of us feel that we are becoming captives in our own country. It is time for us to seek God in urgent prayer. Let us do what Solomon said, turn back to God “with all of our heart and soul.”For this reason many of us have agreed to join together in fasting and prayer to seek God. Let us confess our sins, recognize the flaws we have as individuals, as a nation and as a church.Let us commit ourselves to repentance asking God to restore the church, His people, to a place of worship that honors the God who gave us life and blesses His people with liberty.We have set aside this Sunday, January 17 to fast and pray. Thank you for joining with many brethren across the nation as we look to God for our salvation.Warmest regards to each of you,Jim O’BrienHere is a partial list of congregations and groups participating in this fast.Atlanta Independent Church of GodBible Home Fellowship Jonesboro, ARBible Sabbath AssociationCana Christian Fellowship VirginiaCelebration Church of God IdahoChristian Church of God Jackson, MSChristian Educational MinistriesChurch of God Beth El NashvilleChurch of God Big SandyChurch of God Central PAChurch of God CincinnatiChurch of God InternationalCGI Dallas Ft. WorthCGI Tyler TexasCGI AtlantaChurch of God Kansas CityChurch of God Parkersburg, WVChurch of God Rocky Mount NCChurch of God Southern CaliforniaCommon Ground Christian MinistriesFellowship of the Word Flatrock, NCHungry Hearts Fellowship Jackson, TNIndependent Church of God Fellowship Portsmouth, OHFairview Texas Church of GodKaty Christian Fellowship Katy TexasLexington Church of GodLifeResource MinistriesLiving God Ministries MontgomeryNorth Texas FellowshipOur Father’s House SacramentoOutreach Ministries Scotts Bluff, NEPleasant Hills Church of GodSeventh Day Christian Assembly—Knoxville, TNTerre Haute Church of GodWest Tennessee Sabbath Ministries
27 comments:
You are right that these guys see no joy in life. Everything is doom and goom to them. The more evil things they can find the more excited they get. They want their kingdom to come but live present lives as miserable people who find no joy and beauty around them. If they are miserable now why do they think they will be happy in their kingdom?
Were gays behind the burning of American cities when Americans lived in teepees and ate meat (bison) for breakfast instead of adventist battle creek corn flakes?
Asking for a friend from the former Midwest Kansas congregation.
Nck
I don't recall ever, in my WCG/COG experience, that fasting ever changed a thing or got the attention, appreciation and intervention from the Deity.
"myself and my father's family" have also sinned is a common statement made in prayers. It's true, but is basically diplomacy. Otherwise Nehemiah would not be making the prayer or have it answered by God.
The fast is typical of religious people and similar to the approach of conservatives who are asking good people to speak up against the tide of censorship and increasing government tyranny. But it misses the mark. What Christ did in Matthew 11:20-24 was denounce the cities that refused to repent. That is, the problem is the wicked. They need to repent. It's common for people, such as work bosses or governments to make things "work" by asking the responsible to jump through loop to accommodate the irresponsible. It's not justice and not the "solution" God is looking for.
The solution is for the wicked to repent rather than the responsible throwing themselves under the bus by rebuking these fools.
All of them suffer from what is commonly known as ‘the rescue syndrome’: my life is crappy, but one day I’ll win the lottery, Prince Charming will come and rescue me, I’ll rule in the Kingdom..
The crappier their lives, the more they get ensnared in this trap. Because they feel powerless and the COG’s do everything to make sure they keep feeling like that.
The solution is simple. Walk away! Take the power back!
I think at times the Armstrong Churches were/ have been so focused on gloom and doom that they cannot bring themselves to see the positive benefits of believing in Christ. There are always going to be bad things in the society in which one lives. It seems like every time you look around some of these HWA wannabes are proclaiming another fast. Maybe Hans Josef Strauss is gonna invade Edmond Oklahoma.
HWA calling fasts for "special needs" was ironic. Although Jesus said his disciples wouldn't fast like John's disciples while He was there, they would when he was gone. Both Jesus and Paul instruct, "When you fast" -- but fasting was more about humility rather than a petition.
The other irony of HWA's calls to fast was when -- when I was in the WCG, they were always in the Sabbath -- wrong!! Fasting on the Sabbath did not have Biblical precedent. The early Catholic Church had fasts on the seventh day, but it was an "in your face" to remaining Sabbath keepers. Ironic that HWA (and splinter COGs) call for "Catholic" Sabbath fasting!
nck said...
Were gays behind the burning of American cities when Americans lived in teepees and ate meat (bison) for breakfast instead of Adventist battle creek corn flakes?
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And let's not forget Post Grape Nuts and The Graham Cracker meant to lower libido.
Personally my Crack Cocaine is a box of Graham Crackers and a quart of milk! Addiction only causes gain weight. Nothing is lowered! :)
There is nothing wrong with fasting and praying but does it treat the essential problem? I see two unyielding barriers.
First, in the Armstrongist domain, fasting is intended to aid in drawing near to God. It assumes a distancing event for some reason has occurred. As an outside observer and recovering Armstrongist, my view is that the distancing that has occurred in Splinterdom is not a matter of just an isolated instance of sin that requires a course correction which will lead to a return to a normative relationship with god. Rather, Armstrongism possesses a stable infrastructure of theology and practice that maintains a separation from God. Paul stated (ESV):
"You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace." (Galatians 5)
This was written to the Circumcision Party that hybridized Christian soteriology with OT observance.
Second, just as Trump should not get away with impunity, why should his morally bankrupt evangelical supporters get away with impunity? For this argument, I would lump Armstrongists who supported Trump in with the evangelicals. Maybe some in the Splinterdom should fast about their inexplicable support of The Donald. Ignoring this issue can subvert any fast. Ed Stetzer at the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College says it well:
https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/13/955801878/how-did-we-get-here-a-call-for-an-evangelical-reckoning-on-trump
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Oh man Dennis.
Graham Crackers again when she says you're like the brother I never had and a really good friend. :-)
nck
Fasting is in the NT, and we are certainly called Christian soldiers in 2 Timothy 2:3 : “Thou shalt endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.”
Fasting is to be used as a form of repentance and humbling on a personal level, and certainly is NOT a way to try to force the hand of God.
The worse use of fasting that I have seen is what I call "celebrity" fasts. The ones where a high ranking official in the orgs is going thru a trial or illness and we are to fast for them. Meanwhile, literally multitudes of "lay members" go thru all kinds and manners of trials, and no such fast is ever called for them.
Loma Armstrong had such a fast called for her, and even David Hulme's first wife Robin , had a fast called for her while in terminal condition during Hulmes tenure as President of the UCG. She did not recover, freeing Hulme to marry a girl, in her early 20s, and a contemporary of his own daughter!
NEO - thanks for the NPR link - interesting analysis.
Also the allure of the Circumcision Party was likely the "other Gospel" that Paul was attacking in Galatians, not the "Gospel about Christ" HWA claimed.
Tonto
I noticed the same with prayer requests. Ministers and their boot lickers hijacked this "service." For instance, a elder asked members to pray for his daughters petty medical problem while ignored older members were in constant severe pain, and others were struggling not be be mentally crushed by persecution.
I basically stopped responding to prayer requests when this became obvious.
Partial List of REBEL GROUPS and OTHER LOSERS
Atlanta Independent Church of God
Bible Home Fellowship Jonesboro, AR
Bible Sabbath Association
Cana Christian Fellowship Virginia
Celebration Church of God Idaho
Christian Church of God Jackson, MS
Christian Educational Ministries
Church of God Beth El Nashville
Church of God Big Sandy
Church of God Central PA
Church of God Cincinnati
Church of God International
CGI Dallas Ft. Worth
CGI Tyler Texas
CGI Atlanta
Church of God Kansas City
Church of God Parkersburg, WV
Church of God Rocky Mount NC
Church of God Southern California
Common Ground Christian Ministries
Fellowship of the Word Flatrock, NC
Hungry Hearts Fellowship Jackson, TN
Independent Church of God Fellowship Portsmouth, OH
Fairview Texas Church of God
Katy Christian Fellowship Katy Texas
Lexington Church of God
LifeResource Ministries
Living God Ministries Montgomery
North Texas Fellowship
Our Father’s House Sacramento
Outreach Ministries Scotts Bluff, NE
Pleasant Hills Church of God
Seventh Day Christian Assembly—Knoxville, TN
Terre Haute Church of God
West Tennessee Sabbath Ministries
Dennis, January 13, 2021 at 11:18 PM, wrote:
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I don't recall ever, in my WCG/COG experience, that fasting ever changed a thing or got the attention, appreciation and intervention from the Deity.
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Dennis, why did you experience that? There may be a very good reason for that, as virtually all fasts are about SELF, and SELF pleading to ask (beg?) God to change something and do things his/her way, no matter what God's will may/may not be in his/her life at the time of their fast. Perhaps, there is more to the subject to fasting, than what most have been taught. Will O'Brian et al, in their self-righteousness just experience more vanity and go through a similar exercise in futility? Time is telling...
The xcog hirelings (e.g. of former WCG) do similar things when they put a budget together and then fasting for God to provide for their budgeted increases of mammon for SELF and/or their organization, association, etc. But if God were doing something with their organization, what if God's will for them to have a decrease in spending in that budget? Of course, most likely, God has nothing to do with those organizations, although He claims to know who is "of Him."
Now, Jim O'Brian is fasting and seeking for self, but is God involved in any of it?
Some fast for political leaders. Some are for God keeping Trump in office; some are for God getting Trump out, and they may pray and fast towards that "end," but how do they know if God has any involvement in it?
Now, if that one Trump is really such a consideration, what are the people going to pray and ask for then the 7 Trumps (mentioned in Revelation) come? Just how much choice do people think they have in influencing or controlling some God to do his/her will?
Jim O'Brian cites several verses relative to fasting: Nehemiah 1:5-11, and 2 Chron 636-39, but so what? Did God command those fasts? No. Does God have something to say about some Day of Atonement? Yes, one day/year. King David fasted a whole week while his son was dying. God never asked for any of that. The individuals were only interested in things of SELF.
Jim's involvement with other "blind" xcog hirelings are asking others to fast, but for the wrong intent. They will all fast contrary to the following advice God inspired Isaiah to tell us:
"Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as [ye do this] day, to make your voice to be heard on high." Isaiah 58:4
Is God listening? Will He listen to any of those voices, or will He continue to work out His own will to eventually benefit all humans with salvation, and subsequent destruction of Satan and his angels (Jim did mention Eph 6:12 for whatever that was worth)?
If any of these people want to strive for accomplishing an acceptable fast to God, then why not consider more of the context of Isaiah's words of Isaiah 58:5-10?
And even if they did do that, will things still turn out to be: "Thy Will be done?" Is there, are there ways that seem so right in our eyes?
Time will tell...
John
Fasting did get Herbie more money on April 4, 1970. I think I gave 10 or 20 bucks. Damn!
I've attended COG-Cincinnati a couple of times in recent years. This fast sounds much like the one Gerald Flurry has called - a response to the 2020 election.
COG-Cincinnati struck me as a "Church of Trump." Speakers were quick to reference the outgoing President during messages. And Jim O'Brien read a stack of right-wing social media posts before his sermon (and video recording) began - including several things which either were outdated by several years or disprovable with a Snopes check.
Yet COG-Cincinnati has female worship leaders. Hard to explain that.
John
The command is to love your neighbor AS YOUR SELF. So self love is commanded. I feel confident that you post here in order to satisfy your SELF.
So please, no Catholic anti self love clap trap.
These COG's are fasting because their buddy Trump has been so badly mistweeted by Twitter- he's on his way out and now faces a trial in the Senate. Maybe Trump can learn a thing or two about trials and tribulations from Ron Weinland!
Meanwhile, those evil Democrats are plotting a way to steal internet bandwidth from Bobiniah
and give it public schools to augment virtual classrooms.
Quite a long list of churches. It must add up to about 100 people in all.
Regarding the opening post here, before the comments, are you really this blind as to not be able to read and understand what is being said here in this passage that you quoted? "Then the disciples of John came to him, saying, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?” And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast." Messiah died and the kingdom did not come as His disciples thought it would. Their Messiah died and was taken from them. They were still going to fast until the Kingdom comes, and YES the Kingdom will rule with old covenant wonderful laws to guide the people, even though many hate those laws currently. Thus we have the mess on our hands in the USA, and globally, that we are experiencing in rejecting those guiding laws. Abortion, homosexuality, socialism, adultery, trangenderism are rampant. When God's Kingdom returns then great feasting will happen. Of course there is feasting and much joy amongst God's people now. There's a shared meal coming up soon with brethren on the Sabbath with a larger crowd.
Gary, you're full of shit!
"Anonymous said...
Quite a long list of churches. It must add up to about 100 people in all.
January 15, 2021 at 11:57 AM"
You'd be surprised if you actually looked into that. A lot more than 100.
9:27 said: "Gary, you're full of shit!"
Welcome back cupcake! LMAO!
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Cupcake? Wow, you are intelligent!
Anon, January 14, 2021 at 2:32 PM, said:
"...John
The command is to love your neighbor AS YOUR SELF. So self love is commanded. I feel confident that you post here in order to satisfy your SELF.
So please, no Catholic anti self love clap trap."
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So, Anon, today it is Monday 4 Oct 2021. The title of this thread is: "Jim O'Brien (Church of God Cincinnati) says we are in a spiritual war and has declared a fast"
Please cite some "good fruit" of all that fasting.
Those of God's Church already knew Ephesians 6:12 was/is true.
How did people going without food/drink accomplish anything? It didn't even prevent Jim and his wife from contacting COVID.
Did time, since 13 January 2021, teach anyone anything? Did the world get better?
Or, did many people just go without food/liquid for 24 hours?
What has time told us? Did something happen that encouraged you to fast more often? Fast even once again?
Time will tell...
John
Anon, January 14, 2021 at 2:32 PM, said:
"...John
The command is to love your neighbor AS YOUR SELF. So self love is commanded. I feel confident that you post here in order to satisfy your SELF.
So please, no Catholic anti self love clap trap."
******
Anon,
I just had some "second thoughts" about that command to love your neighbor AS YOUR SELF. It would really work, but have you ever personally done that?
The Bible cites that thought to love neighbor as yourself numerous times; here are a few of them as mentioned by Jesus Christ:
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mark 12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
No flesh hates itself, so we all love ourselves very much; don't we?
And I can imagine if you could go out today and begin to love everyone that you have contact with, just love them half as much as you love yourSELF, guess what? They might just begin to think it's "heaven on earth!"
When have you ever done such a thing? Will you do such a thing? I'm not asking you to do what Jesus said; I'm just asking you to do just one half: love others half as much as you love yourSELF. I suspect you will do it someday, but...
Time will tell...
John
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