...the Bronze Age Weather God "Trying to tell them something"
Must not interfere in the lesson
In the major COG splits, splinters and slivers it is God who is doing this "trying" to get these especially evil sinners attention, so they can't send thoughts and prayers to the population as this is God's doing and could be seen as disloyal to the plan. Of course, it isn't since we don't actually have to fear the Bronze Age/OT concept of what weather actually is. If they could see it as Satan "trying to disrupt the Feast of Tabernacles along all the popular Gulf locations, then perhaps thoughts and prayers would be appropriate and called for. Otherwise, they just have take it as God canceling their feast plans for a higher cause.
That said, I know we wish all the Gulf Coast residents having to deal with the chaos and damage that Ida is about to inflict our loving hope for their personal safety.
I would hope for the same when the Juan De Fuca plate off the coast of Oregon and Washington slips us a 9 earthquake, which is also expected someday again as it has done with regularity of about every 350years in the past. The last time, however, in 1700 was before Seattle, Tacoma and Portland existed. Goes with the turf.
30 comments:
When Katrina struck in 2005, LifeNets had perhaps its finest hour - helping people who had to evacuate from Louisiana to Houston.
Will that happen again with Ida? The way LifeNets has been downplayed in recent years, I sadly doubt it. But may they prove me wrong.
Dennis,
Atheists always use this nonsense “the bronze age” as if that debunks the Scriptures. Sorry, it’s a childish statement.
If this “bronze age” deity, and or writers were so dumb, how come they described you and other atheists so well? And, how come none of you can break away from what you naturally do as per their descriptions, in 100’s of verses? And, the writings they did were composed and closed 1,000’s of years ago. They didn’t write about you yesterday.
Just sayin’.
Dennis wrote: "While the effectiveness of "Thoughts and Prayers" during a crisis that is both predictable, well understood as natural and part of living in harm's way is, to me, are of questionable and practical value, I am sure we all hope the Gulf Coast residents stay safe and are able to find shelter in the storm."
It is the existence of what you call the "Bronze Age Weather God" that removes the inconsistency from the statement above. On the one hand you point out that these events are natural (that is to say, godless) and on the other hand you express your sympathies. Atoms, molecules, gravity and quantum mechanics did not give you the sentiment of sympathy. If you believe that these materialistic objects and forces of physics are responsible for your mentation and emotion, the you should just admit that your feelings are the odd artifacts of the impersonal laws of physics, pardon yourself and continue on your android way.
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Sure NEO, whatever you say.
" Bob Petry, C. L. said...
Dennis,
"Atheists always use this nonsense “the bronze age” as if that debunks the Scriptures. Sorry, it’s a childish statement."
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I refer, as do other, to the Bronze Age (2500 -700 BCE) as the time in which the beliefs about origins of many things would not be considered intelligent or amazing today. Bad weather, drought and pestilence was caused by angry gods. Good weather and abundance by the same gods who were happy with mankind especially as they obeyed the gods appropriately.
While Job may have been challenged by his God to answer as to where the snow comes from or how how the Pleiades are held together, today any high school kid can answer those questions. The "answer me if you know" god of Job would not get far today. But it worked well in the ignorance of the Bronze Age. Not so much today.
The casting of lots in Acts we can credit to a more Iron Age ignorance in discerning the will of God in something they simply could have taken responsibility for and voted on who replaced Judas. In the Late Bronze age into theIron Age, oracles, idols, casting lots, bones and stones were very common in discerning the ever shrinking and hard to hear gods.
Finally, they give up and simply demand that if one wants to come to the gods, you simply must believe they exist and will reward you someday. Today it is called having faith which is hoping something is true based on absolutely no evidence that it is. Heb 11:1
I'm sick of people saying that their thoughts and prayers are with someone. How about actually doing something to help, instead or along with your thoughts and prayers. I think that for many the expression is little more than an excuse to do nothing. I'd like so see people be honest enough to say, "No thanks, I won't help you because, frankly, I don't really care about what you are doing."
Jesus said that where your heart is there will be your treasure. If you really care, your treasure (time and money) would follow. Don't tell me you care when you can't find any time or money to help. Just say, "Sorry, but I really don't give a crap."
"While Job may have been challenged by his God to answer as to where the snow comes from or how how the Pleiades are held together, today any high school kid can answer those questions."
The problem is that every time science answers a question, a dozen other new questions come up.
Dennis,
You speak atheist speak which is nothing but a smokescreen. Get real.
None of what you just wrote makes any sense as it is at best distorted assumption. You still are parroting a childish nonsense that has nothing to do with Scripture, how it was formed, or why. It is literally nothing but atheist fairy tales.
As to your distortion of faith and Heb. 11, you simply don’t know what you are talking about. It is also just your ignorant view and presentation of the atheist definition of faith.
Like it or not, you are the walking, talking living proof the bible is true, and that Elohim exists and controls you. For that I thank you.
So, shall we start with one verse at a time describing you, and see if you can break the habits that have been “fixed” in your character to see if you can defeat the Creator?
Number 1, written 2,000, years ago: Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is ***manifest in them;*** for God hath shewed it unto them.
Number 2, also written about 2,000, years ago: Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; ***so that they are without excuse:***
It gets better as we go, 100’s more to come, let’s see you defeat them, one by one.
Everyone in the splinter groups would do well to read the article at:
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2021/04/28/post-nar-traumatic-stress/
And again Bob calls out another would be prophet for his forecast of disaster, claiming he doesn't meet the criteria for a true prophet...
Bob, I have no interest in defeating your scriptures one by one. Thousands of scholars and scientists have done that already. Each to our own my friend.
And too Bob, you would not recognize a defeat no matter who explained what to you. You need belief preservation far more than understanding of how different it all might actually be compared to comforting myths and fairytales. It's a common need as we try to make sense of our world and purpose and you didn't invent it that's for sure.
Spiritual journeys and journeys of discover are private endeavors with each to their own. The moment you join a group or insist others follow the leader, the chance for personal spiritual growth, whatever that means to one, falls off precipitously.
Dennis,
Let’s present another. great description of atheism, written 2,000 years ago, and still as valid as the day written.
Number 3: Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their ***foolish heart was darkened***.
Number 4: Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, ***they became fools.***
Number 5: Psa 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, ***will not seek after God***: ***God is not in all his thoughts.***
The wonderful part is, the deeper one goes into these verses the more detailed they get. And the more atheists express these descriptions without knowing they are doing it.
Even so, atheists are a very important part of Yah’s plan for mankind. Atheists are not the enemy of the bible, they are the proof. And, we haven’t even gotten started yet.
Dennis,
As you will see, as we move through the verses, you are already presenting what the scriptures say you have to. Sometimes, even verbatim. You cannot do otherwise.
Here’s another one just to keep us going: Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Petry, the consummate know-it-all writes: "How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts."
I have seen more ungodly lusts from COG ministers and leaders than I ever have in the community around me or in the church I attend. The only mockers I have seen in the COG are its current leaders and its defenders which Include you with your YAH silliness.
YAH is the name of the Jewish/Egyptian moon god. Since so many seek to deny Christ in the COG they need another god they can follow that sounds close to the god Armstrongists grew up learning about.
http://yahwehism.com/yah.html
The cult of YHWH as god of metallurgy originated among semi-nomadic copper smelters between the Bronze and Iron Age, suggests biblical scholar: And he was not worshipped only by Jews
https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-jewish-god-yahweh-originated-in-canaanite-vulcan-says-new-theory-1.5992072
Begged, borrowed or stolen God of the Israelites
The Canaanite people predate the arrival of Israelites by roughly two millennia. The early Canaanites arose around 3,500 BC and settled in the Eastern Mediterranean in the region extending from the borders of Sinai until Turkey. Canaan was a region in the ancient Near East situated in the southern Levant. It had significant geopolitical importance in the Late Bronze Age. During the Amarna period, it became an area where the spheres of interest of the Egyptian, Hittite and Assyrian empires converged.
Knowledge of Canaan comes from archaeological sources. Specifically, exclusives from artefacts dated to the period in which the region existed under the hegemony of the new kingdom of Egypt. Since the Egyptian empire controlled this region during that time, much of our knowledge from archaeology comes from the Amarna letters and other documents of governance which record information from the time of Egyptian rule. Much of the primary source knowledge of Canaan stems from excavations in areas such as Tell Hazor, Tell Megiddo and Gezer
The Israelite religion is one which originated out of these Bronze Age polytheistic, ancient, Semitic religious traditions. Specifically, the Canaanite religion impacted Israelite religion with influential elements from Babylonian and Egyptian religions.
https://phoenicia.org/Canaanite-Origin-God-Israelites.html
Anonymous (9:52)
This is a common theory. It asserts that Israelites got their God from the Canaanites. But this theory essentially commits the error of Herman Hoeh. It pivots on linguistic deductions rather than events. Hoeh found great evidence of the Tribe of Dan in city names in Ireland because of the occurrence of the word Dan or Dun which in Gaelic meant "fort," as I recall.
In a similar way, the ancient Israelites used the northwest Semtic word "El" to refer to god. Does this mean the Israelites were worshipping the "El" of the Canaanites? There is a linguistic connection just like Hoeh's Dan and the Gaelic Dan. This may be stronger than Hoeh's surmise because El refers to a god in both the Israelite and the Canaanite contexts. But it remains a linguistic connection.
What the theory ignores is that in the Ugaritic texts the El of the Canaanites is nothing like the El of ancient Israel. The only similarity is that they are both referred to by the same name. El meant god. It is a northwest Semitic vocabulary word. Like we may use the term "god" to refer to what a group of pagan people worship who live on an island in the South Pacific. We say "That is their god." There are parallels that could be drawn I would imagine. But the vocabulary connection does not mean that the islanders are worshipping the Christian god.
The theory you propose also does not take into consideration the ministry of Melchizedik and the promulgation of some understanding about God in ancient Middle East. The Old Testament gives us an account of events not just language. Even God seemed to regard El is an accommodation:
"And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Yahweh: and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of El the almighty, but by my name Yahweh was I not known to them." (KJV, I rendered the names)
The theory you cite will always have a cheering peanut gallery. But it is not incontrovertible.
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Bob Petry-- wasn't that the name of the character played by Dick Van Dyke , as the husband to Mary Tyler Mooor, on the same named television show back in the early 60s. ??
Bob Petry (8:07)
You are barking up the wrong tree. Phrases borrowed from the Bible and given an epithetic turn do not engage atheism at its rational core. In a sense, you are begging the question. You are using the Bible to whack atheists who do not believe in the Bible. You assume what is to be proved. While that is Spokesman Club melodrama, it is not logical argument.
Further, you cannot prove that God exists even though the infrastructure of the universe may favor God's existence in many convincing ways. And most reasonable atheists know that they cannot prove that God does not exist. The debate has been stalemated from time immemorial and Armstrongism has not changed that picture - perhaps, has made it a little droll.
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7:25
Atheists fit the verses perfectly whether they believe or not. And, like you, they scoff, mock, etc. because they cannot stop doing what they are programmed to do, thus proving Yah is still in charge.
Plus, good old reasoning claimed as the hallmark of atheism:
What atheists don't grasp about "reason."
"Should the Highest speak with you in the language of reason? But how much can reason comprehend? Reason justified slavery, absolute monarchy, superstition. It made us cheer dictatorships and justify world wars, which were mass slaughters of innocent beings. Mephistopheles says of man, “He calls it reason and uses it only to be more animalistic than any animal.” Man must always rationalize, conceptualize, and intellectualize all things."
And, thus, we see how atheists use "reason?"
Tonto wrote:
Bob Petry-- wasn't that the name of the character played by Dick Van Dyke , as the husband to Mary Tyler Mooor, on the same named television show back in the early 60s. ??
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You got it toyota…. only it was Rob Petri.
Because of that we got free tickets to see them make the last show, and personally meet some of people.
Interesting, we almost didn’t get in. When we got to the door, with the crowd pressing behind us, they started closing the door, so I said can my wife and I just take a quick look at the set? The guy said yes, and as soon as we stepped in he closed the door behind us, and said, we have two seats open, but you won’t be able to sit together. After we told Carl Reiner who we were. Oh, you are the one saying how we caused you all that trouble using your name.
I asked how they came up with the name. He said, well Rob is my son’s first name, and one our writer’s last name is Petri.
So, now you know more than you asked for.
Here’s a goodie I found:
# What does this statement tell you?
"I used to be a Christian, and was taught by a great Christian teacher, but now I'm an atheist."
It simply says: I was too dumb to analyze and choose a proper religion. So, I chose something else, which seems correct NOW.
And, it says: If I was too dumb to choose correctly before, who knows if my atheist choice is also a dumb choice.
So, I must sooth myself by destroying the faith of others to have company. Otherwise, I will continue feeling ?????
Neo Therm wrote:
Further, you cannot prove that God exists even though the infrastructure of the universe may favor God's existence in many convincing ways. And most reasonable atheists know that they cannot prove that God does not exist.
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ATHEISTS CAN'T HANDLE THEIR OWN INSTRUCTIONS
Remember, in the methodology of science, we ordinarily need to
1. Observe
2. Induce general hypotheses or possible explanations for what we have observed
3. Deduce specific things that must also be true if our hypothesis is true
4. Test the hypothesis by checking out the deduced implications
So, what happens when we apply this to the Bible and atheists? Why, they just cannot grasp that THEY are predictable and TESTABLE to see if the Bible is accurate or not, AFTER over 2,000 years!! Well, they are, every time. They cannot change. Bible's descriptions don't change. Ergo, scientifically, they prove Bible true!
Atheism and It's GODDESS!
"The French Revolution marked a turning point for the ascendancy of atheism to a preeminent position as a cognitive and cultural stance against papal supremacy and the Holy Roman Empire across Europe and throughout the world. Now known as the** atheist Cult of Reason** ideology, established by Jacques Hébert, Pierre Gaspard Chaumette and their supporters and **intended as a replacement for Christianity**, and was replete with ceremonious destruction of Christian relics, conversion of churches into Temples of Reason and the personification of Reason **as a goddess***; it also held such festivities as the Festival of Reason (or Festival of Liberty), dated on November 10 (20 Brumaire) 1793. The Cult of Reason, which strongly advocated the destruction of Christian and theistic cultural influences by force, was opposed to Robespierre's Cult of the Supreme Being, which was considered a deistic cult which referred back to the theism of Christianity. The Cult of Reason was finally ended by Robespierre and the Committee of Public Safety through their execution of Hébert and several of his followers on March 24, 1794 having ascended just seven months earlier."
From Wikipedia article Irreligion in France
Bob Petry, you wrote: "Number 3: Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their ***foolish heart was darkened***."
I can play the game of special pleading as well. I would say that this refers not to atheists but to Armstrongists. HWA had access to the doctrine of God in that library back in Des Moines yet glorified him not as God nor was he thankful. Instead he fabricated his own god, a god that lived under constraint in spacetime, somewhere in the side of the north, who had a human-like body, who was of the White race. In fact, the God fabricated by HWA was contingent on his environment and the functioning of his body parts like a human. Herman Hoeh believed that God was not omniscient or omnipotent. The Armstrongist god had to do engineering models of various, progressively more complex hominids before he finally hit upon Adam. We find the remnants of his early experiments in the rock beds.
HWA and Hoeh emptied God of his glory, like a forced kenosis, and replaced him with a human-like personage that resembles the Gnostic idea of a demi-urge. And of course this has turned everything upside down. I believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent and you do not, yet paradoxically you accuse me of mockery and maintain you are a true worshipper.
But take heart, I will not bother you anymore. Your writings, though voluble, lack rationality. This speaks poorly for your denomination. But, say on. Every turning wheel deserves the chance to make its squeak.
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Neo Therm, your response doesn’t fit the context, but, be that as it may, bye. It was fun.
# Let's See -- Here is Atheisms Logic, Reason and Science??
Negative outlook on Bible, laugh at non-atheist, scorn, mock, discredit, ridicule, scoff, gang up on & overwhelm, despise, show contempt, disdain, arrogant attitude, lie, deride, flatter their own thinking that makes them winners, slander, blaspheme, use calumny, malign, revile, accuse, reproach, spurn, selfishness, disrespect, dishonor, disrepute, pride, insolent, rebel, boasting, enmity, discourteous, cursing, quarrelsome, and, that's just to start.
So, where can one find their claimed scientific presentation, logic, reasoning, enlightenment, etc.? What one actually finds are the above items which atheists CANNOT avoid using automatically, without thought. Why? Because Elohim programmed their minds & hearts to be that way. Why? Easy. To show the world they cannot NOT do & be what He set IN them. They cannot do otherwise, period. "...that which may be known about Elohim is plain IN them." They prove Him.
Psalm 10:5 “Bible in Basic English.” In speaking of the one whose thoughts are “There is no Elohim,” it says,
**“His ways are ever FIXED.”**
There is no escape for an a-theist. He/she has been “fixed” i.e. Programmed. That means that all an a-theist can do is spout negativity towards the Bible and his Creator. If an a-theist wants to disprove the Bible and the Creator, then he/she must do everything opposite to what the Bible says about them. And, they cannot do so. It is impossible to overrule the Father’s word about them.
Sorry to bring this up, but in rereading a post to me Neo Therm wrote some errors in understanding, possibly from assuming too much that is not real. Here is the post:
HWA and Hoeh emptied God of his glory, like a forced kenosis, and replaced him with a human-like personage that resembles the Gnostic idea of a demi-urge. And of course this has turned everything upside down. I believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent and you do not, yet paradoxically you accuse me of mockery and maintain you are a true worshipper.
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The above is simply not true, including the “I believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent and YOU DO NOT.” That is a blatant lie.
Neo:But take heart, I will not bother you anymore. Your writings, though voluble, lack rationality. This speaks poorly for your denomination.
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What in the world are you talking about? I have NO DENOMINATION.
Where are you getting this stuff from?
Have a wonderful day anyway.
I apologize for not catching this on first skimming.
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