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Episode 39: End time prophecies? Memorizing the bible? Required church vacations your family can't afford? Snap Judgment host and creator Glynn Washington shares his experiences growing up in the apocalyptic religion the Worldwide Church of God. He tells the girls about believing the end of the world was imminent, the white supremacist roots of the group and how he was forbidden from dating outside of his race, and the book that began to change his thinking.
44 comments:
The feast of tabernacles is not a family vacation it is a commandment of God.
White supremacist? Why are people always playing the race card? The exaggerations are hysterical?
You've got to be joking, 3:47! What do you call it when someone teaches that the white Israelitish people are going to be first in God's pecking order for all eternity, and all the Gentiles will be sent back to where they came from?
The feast of tabernacles is not a family vacation it is a commandment of God.
Agreed. And if you do not for those Holy Days construct a temporary booth made of tree branches (which for a Christian memorialize the branches the people of Jerusalem waved when Jesus entered), you are breaking God's commandment and turning His sacred festival into a debased family vacation.
"The feast of tabernacles is not a family vacation it is a commandment of God."
In an ideal world, probably, but for any COG member with children, it was a vacation, plain and simple. People were just itching for services to be over so they could go do fun stuff. How many times can you listen to the same boring sermons and hear the Holy City or the Hallelujah Chorus sung? Other than being drug to the spanking tent what did the children of the church have to look forward to?
Besides that, the FOT was the COG version of Christmas. Presents and overindulgence with a few church services interspersed. It is still that way today in every single splinter group. Except maybe for UCG and LCG who have a separate Christmas Celebration every year on Winter Family Weekend.
Indeterminate Racial Classification policy...
He lost my respect when he said that he is now an agnostic. Walking away from a abusive cult is understandable, but walking away from God is not. Despite all of the WWCOG shortcomings, he was introduced to basic Christianity and the bible, which he now doesn't believe in. If any person puts out effort to live by the ten commandments, studies their bible and prayers for the well being of humanity, God will answer his or her prayers. He obviously did non of these. He's an apostate. He had a great opportunity, and he blew it. Just like our Dennis and others.
The FOT "booths" were temporary structures but did not have to be made out of tree stuff. Lev 23:40 does not command making a booth but to rejoice with tree parts. Can you imagine setting up and taking down a tree hut everyday when traveling in the wilderness - Lev 23:43? I suppose you could but moving a tent is easier. Hosea 12:9 is a prophecy: .....will yet make you to dwell in tents, as in the days of the solemn feast. Nehemiah 8 indicates booths must be tree stuff but the Hebrew word for "make" in verse 15 has many meanings and interpretations can run rampant.
Anon 6:50:00 PM PDT
Your comments are classical Armstrongism at its best.
'he was introduced to basic Christianity and the bible....If any person puts in the effort to live by the ten commandments, studies their bible and prays for the well being of humanity, God will answer his or her prayers'.
For so many of those who left Armstrongism the biggest issue was not coming into contact with basic Christianity. What they read and what they observed and experienced was the very opposite of what they plainly understood within scripture.It was not basic Christianity. Did he 'blow it'? The very words and gospel of Jesus Christ witness against your comments.
I will add that untold numbers of saints and martyers down through the ages have prayed studied and lived by the ten commandments and yet perished by flame sword and in death camps. Their prayers for deliverance were not heard.And they most certainly were not members of wwcog or it's ofshoots.
"The feast of tabernacles is not a family vacation it is a commandment of God."
And the commandment that Jesus kept says that you must appear before God (one of three holy days that require this). And appearing before God was at the Temple. In Second Temple Judaism this was the praxis. In Rabbinic Judaism, there was no Temple and this was not done as decided by the Academy of Jamnia post-70 AD. As in Rabbinic Judaism, Armstrongists do not do what Jesus did and do not appear in the Temple.
It is easy to say "this commandment must be kept" and it is quite another thing to actually understand its historical background and keep the commandment in a way that is consistent with the Judaic practice of Jesus. When it comes to keeping the law, for all the august pomp and circumstance, Armstrongists are dilettantes.
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Yes poor Glynn lost his chance to live forever with the likes of you 3:47 and 1:53. He’s really missing out. You enjoy HWA, Gerald Waterhouse,and Herman Hoeh for all eternity the rest of us will be just fine.
Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 4:35:00 PM PDT makes an excellent point.
I would add that the sacrifices should not be overlooked, they are also a commandment of god.
Numbers 29: 12-40
8.19 PM and 8.08 PM
You are both doing a straw man argument on my comment. I did not endorse Armstrongism. There was nothing stopping Glynn from studying his bible and establishing a relationship with God. Billions of people in countries like China, India etc would have loved to have had the opportunity that Glynn had, yet he blew it. His blood is on his own head.
1:17, How do you know that Glynn did not attempt these things, and did not receive any more energy or feedback from them than he did with Armstrongism? Armstrongism always taught the concept of "being called at this time". How do you know, aside from guessing, whether or not someone was called?
There are also people who felt so ripped off by false teachers that it completely left them empty and turned them off towards any sort of religion or spirituality. That's on the false teachers like Herbert W. Armstrong.
Back in the day, there were 2 services every day of the Feast. It was not much of a vacation, aside from maybe going to a place away from home, in a resort that you were assigned to. You had to "apply" to transfer, and the more exotic places were reserved for the members that were financially better off. I lived both sides, as a kid, sitting endlessly while the folks fellowshipped with friends they hadn't seen in a year, to being an adult shlepping my own kids alone since my husband was not in the church. I had little tithe to spend, so I'd sell heirlooms and all kinds of stuff because you were ordered to be there. I liked being away from home, but it was WORK, not a vacation.
Come on now...
Staying at the "OOH- LA-LA LODGE" in Fresno CA for the FOT 1978 definitely pictured the "Kingdom of God"!
"The construction of sukkot is an example of how Armstrongism has dealt with other OT laws."
I did not really explain the statement above in my last comment. So here it is. There is no Temple. It was destroyed in 70 AD. The Law of Moses was based on the idea of first a Tabernacle and later a Temple - a construction that centralized the worship of Israel.
Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses during the period of Second Temple Judaism when there was still a physical Temple. Nobody now can follow in the footsteps of Jesus in regard to keeping the Law of Moses within the Temple context. So the Armstrongist idea that Jesus retained the Law of Moses, exemplified it and magnified it in the sense of making it more restrictive just doesn't wash.
Because there ceased to be a Temple in 70 AD, the Jews re-packaged the Law of Moses to operate without a Temple at the Academy of Jamnia in the First Century. Armstrongists have done the same kind of repackaging. Both the Jews under Rabbinic Judaism and the Armstrongists have repackaged Sukkot - with the Armstrongists even altering its meaning - to use a non-Temple liturgy. There are other Laws of Moses that have similarly been re-packaged within Armstrongism. That is what I mean in the quoted sentence above.
If you make keeping the Law of Moses as Jesus kept it a requirement for salvation - you have doomed yourself to perdition. And the title of Hoeh's article "Which Old Testament Laws Should we Keep Today?" rests on a foundation of presumption.
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Anonymous 7:38
(I just had to correct some typos.)
The construction of sukkot is an example of how Armstrongism has dealt with other OT laws. I am not sure what the engineering design of the sukkah actually was. I am sure that it was not the Holiday Inn. The term sukkot implies a thicket. Nehemiah (in the Armstrongist spirit of letting the Bible interpret itself) says the branches gathered at this time were used for the construction of dwellings. Nehemiah describes dwelling in booths made of branches and has the chutzpah to tack on "as it is written." Clearly, this is what the scripture spoke to Nehemiah. But there may have been other construction materials used besides branches. Use of branches was likely based on traditional interpretation. The idea that the branches were gathered together in bouquet and waved is a later Rabbinic tradition. (See the Jewish Study Bible, 2nd edition, p. 253)
The point is, no matter what the precise materials and architecture, it is not what Armstrongist to do today. The Armstrongist rendition is to focus only on the temporary nature of the dwelling and ignores the rest of the commandment.
At the symbolic level, the Old Testament portrayal of Sukkot conflicts with the Armstrongist portrayal. The booths represent people in flight out of Egypt living under duress in less than desirable circumstances. Armstrongists converted this into the Hilton as a portrayal of the affluence of the Millennium. The fact is, the Bible says nothing about Sukkot being an enactment of the Millennium. There is a great deal of data in the Bible to substantiate the Trinity which Armstrongist deny and no data that connects Sukkot with the Millennium which Armstrongists avidly accept. This is about politics and not exegesis. Mrs. Evangelist is not going to stay eight days in a little hut ornamented with some tree branches. She is going to stay at the Hilton.
This is all fine. Just don't claim that this is the Law of Moses (Hoeh asserts that the Law of Moses is God's inviolable, eternal law) and that it is necessary for salvation. Armstrongists shoot themselves in the foot.
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Amen to that NEO. You're exactly right!
Zechariah 14:16.
I like John MacArthur's ministry a lot. Especially the sanctification work of the Holy Spirit, which I believe the COG's lack by focusing on other things, like apostolic succession, one true church, church eras, place of safety, etc. But his doctrine of God's Holy Days being eliminated by the atoning sacrifice of Christ, while the example of the apostles and Paul, plus this scripture are hard to ignore.
I totally agree with leaving any organization that is deceptive and abusive in any way. However, Paul taught that we should PROVE all things (for ourselves). Scripture also says that we must pursue our own salvation with fear and trembling. So, following man rather than God's word is done at your own peril. No excuses.
That said, what is even more sad, is that the majority of commenters here simply have an abusive and negative attitude of their own, seeming never to add anything positive and encouraging. It seems to be a fun game, mocking and scorning is their chief activity.
Anon 1:17:00
You seem very confident in your assumption that Glynn Washington has ‘blown it’.
And this when you have not walked in his shoes or walked the road that he has journeyed on, or experienced the issues he has had to confront and you pass withering judgment upon him.
Jesus had much to say about this as did the apostle Paul.
Glynn can be encouraged by the fact that he will stand and give account of his life before Jesus Christ and not mere mortals like yourself. For he can be assured of Christ’s love and compassion and understanding and forgiveness, something your comments frighteningly lack.
Yep, Neo. Armstrongists are not law keepers, but by their actions they subject themselves to the whole Law (acts 15), and they come up far short because they choose to ignore many laws and then they break other laws.
I know I’d rather be subject to Christ than to the law. There is salvation in Christ and no other.
The law brings condemnation.
So Glynn was a cult baby? His advise: Don't grow up in a cult! I was unfortunate enough to grow up in 2 cults, Jim Jones and the WCG. Guess which was worse Glynn?
WCG -Bible. / JIM JONES, no Bible
WCG, vacations / JJ, no vacations
WCG, no compound / JJ, compound
WCG, 2 services on holydays / JJ, services EVERY day of the week that last for hours!!
I'm sorry Glynn you were psychologically damaged because of no Christmas, birthdays, or not being allowed to date white chicks! Time to get over it. This whole world system is one big CULT! Get use to it.
BP8~ so, we shouldn't speak up against evils which have had a negative impact upon us, or attempt to improve the things which are broken around us? Just suck it up and endure it in silence? That doesn't work for me! And, no. The world is not just one big cult, there is normalcy and balance to be experienced if we can just find it. Had to laugh about your white chicks comment, because I enjoyed dating all over God's rainbow of ladies after leaving the Armstrong cult. That has made me a better and more understanding white guy. I've also been with white chicks who included black guys in their dating pool. Wake up! The new millennium started 22 years ago!
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Banned has been again been cited by Bob Thiel. This time it's about tithing, and the article about Harry Eisenberg that appeared in the Ambassador Report.
Bob again referred to Banned as an anti-COG site, although it is, IMHO, an open forum on COGs. Claiming this site is "anti-COG", again, IMHO, like a Spokesman's Club evaluator being called "anti-speech". No, both sites like Banned are what I've come to call "COG critique" sites. Read and learn, Bob, we're giving you free advice, and challenges to the veracity of Armstrongist doctrine and dogma.
Anonymous June 8, 4:33 PM said, "What do you call it when someone teaches that the white Israelitish people are going to be first in God's pecking order for all eternity, and all the Gentiles will be sent back to where they came from?"
MY COMMENT - Bull Shit!!!
I don't ever remember hearing such garbage being taught from the pulpit or from the R/WCG publications. We were taught Galatians 3:28 which reads, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus".
We were taught everyone regardless of race, gender, nationality, etc. had the same equal opportunity for eternal salvation reward in the First Resurrection, as well as for the rest of humanity in the Second Resurrection.
Anonymous 4:33 is confusing the teachings of the R/WCG regarding the NATIONAL inheritance of British Israelism in the Old Testament with the SPIRITUAL inheritance promised in the New Testament - both of which the R/WCG taught under Herbert Armstrong.
Hey, there is a lot of things the WCG taught and got wrong. There is no need to make stuff up.
Richard
7.01 AM
Unfortunately the world appears to be turning its back on the enlightenment and reverting back to the dark ages. The dark ages was cultish.
Hey, there is a lot of things the WCG taught and got wrong. There is no need to make stuff up.
Yeah, but who on here really cares about the truth? It's all about bashing the enemy with whatever works. That's what liberals always do.
Zippo, it's interesting to see that in all of Bob's abundance of words, he completely ignores the question: Who is qualified to receive the tithes that God commands?
Bob just assumes he can set up a church and automatically be eligible to receive what belongs to God. He's going to be shocked when he learns that God considers him a THIEF.
Again, the Herbie COGs teach the change (Heb 7:12) of the tithing law was a reversion to the "original" (or whatever word you want to use) tithing law that existed before Moses. So why can't I read it? Because it didn't exist! The change of the law was its removal.
Anon 701
So that's what you think Glynn is doing, speaking up against great evils (Christmas and birthdays), attempting to improve things that are broken, bringing normalcy and balance to the world IF HE CAN FIND IT? I think being a confessed agnostic disqualifies him in those endeavors! And YES, the WORLD is a cult! God set the orthodoxy and Adam rejected it. The whole world lies in wickedness. PERIOD!
Richard 7:34
You may well have been taught something different in your time. But there was a teaching that amounted to a kind of White Supremacy that was taught earlier. And there are people who remember that teaching who are still alive and some no doubt base their current beliefs on it. I remember it.
I wrote an article on this topic for this blog. The search engine is such that I am not likely to ever find it and give you a link so here are some excerpts:
"Back in the Seventies, Dean Blackwell, an evangelist in the Worldwide Church of God (WCG), was sent out to many congregations to present the official understanding of race then held by the WCG. I heard this special message in a large WCG congregation in the Midwest. To my knowledge, none of Blackwell’s material exists in official written form...
"While the WCG did believe in White Supremacy, it was not one of the traditional types of White Supremacy current in the USA. British-Israelism had to be accommodated..." (Only certain White nations were privileged.)
"Blackwell taught that Israel, principally Britain as Ephraim and the British-Americans as Manasseh, would rule over all other peoples throughout eternity...
"The momentum and pervasiveness of this belief in the WCG is illustrated by the following incident involving one of Blackwell’s sermons that I heard a few years later. Blackwell explained Isaiah 19:23-24 but altered its meaning even as members of the congregation were actually looking at the scripture in their open Bibles. He preached that the scripture stated that both Egypt and Assyria would be servants of Israel in the future. Whereas, from larger context, it is clear that the scripture refers to Israel, Egypt and Assyria all being one day servants of God together. And the status of the three is that of equality rather than a super-ordinate Israel with a subordinate Egypt and a subordinate Assyria. Blackwell’s mishandling of this scripture based on the already established WCG racial model provoked no reaction from the audience. (Large midwestern congregation: either the idea went over the audience's head or they passively agreed with it or they did not care. I am not sure which. I saw or heard no stirrings.)
"Blackwell based the supremacy of the British people on a scripture in Deuteronomy 32:8-9:
“When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel.”
This was interpreted by Blackwell to mean that God organized the nations in order to allocate them to the oversight of the “sons of Israel.” This was not just a transient, temporal plan but would extend into eternity."
I then show how this latter idea was based on a mis-translation. This may be totally new to you. If so, be thankful that you did not have the corroding exposure. If your window on Armstrongism is limited in time, which it is, I would not be hasty in concluding anything is B.S.
Note: I met with Dean Blackwell in his office at the Roy Hammer Library on the Big Sandy campus to ask him more about how this view was developed. I do not remember receiving a clear answer. He did say that WCG leaders did not want to relase Hoeh's Compendium of World History to the general WCG membership because they would not understand it. I think he was implying that I did not understand his racial theory and would not be likely to.
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Yes exactly. Not a family vacation. Those who call it that lack understanding
Richard @ 7:34 "Bull Shit!"
Sorry, Dude. I learned that in class at Amballador Cossage, and you said you never went!
Somehow miraculously the when the British descended peoples crossed the pond to America, they instantly become Manasseh. How does that work? It doesn't make any sense.
Anon 10:02:00 AM PDT
Your words need to be dissected and examined.
‘Who really cares about the truth’?
What ‘truth’ are you alluding too?
‘It’s about bashing your enemy with whatever works’.
Are those who expose the many malpractices and flaws within Armstrongism enemies, or merely whose who wish to see the hurt and harm caused by this movement minimised as a warning to all, especially ones who may be enticed by it.
‘That’s what liberals always do’.
You are painting a tag on those who on this blog and many others have clearly articulated their objections with well rounded arguments against Armstrongism and the label ‘liberals’ is intellectually sloppy at bless as a counter argument.
Anonymous 6:16
You are referring to one of the major fractures in the BI theory. There are families that span Britain, North America and Australia. My family is like that. Is part of our family of the tribe of Ephraim and part of Manasseh? This is a very simple and direct proof that BI is fantasy.
The idea that political boundaries map to biological populations (such as Norway is Benjamin) is absurd. Genetics will demonstrate the biological diversities within nations and similarities among nations. The naive believe that everyone in Norway is the same and the are all unlike, say, the Danes.
In effect, BI is like this. Some guy comes running up to you and tells you that he saw a dinosaur. You ask where and he takes you there. And you find yourself on a hill looking at a distant cloud that just happens to look a little like a brontosaurus. Suddenly you get the picture: "Right. A dinosaur. Just a overactive imagination. May be harmless, may be pathological. Poor guy."
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NEO,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my prior post. As usual, your posts reflect much thought.
When you state, “You may well have been taught something different in your time. But there was a teaching that amounted to a kind of White Supremacy that was taught earlier”, “your time” (my time) in the R/WCG is in the context of 1968 - 1976 which were the years I was in regular attendance and taking copious notes in my Sabbath Service notebooks. My Sabbath Service notebooks are the only things that are left of boxes and boxes of Plain Truths, Tomorrows World, Good News, co-worker letters, church publications and news clippings of the Church in newspapers – all of which I read and have subsequently trashed. Some of the Plain Truths dated back to the early 1950s which I inherited from my grandfather.
In that context, I again state I have never seen, read or heard spoken from the pulpit, and I quote, “…..that the white Israelitish people are going to be first in God's pecking order for all eternity, and all the Gentiles will be sent back to where they came from".
You state, “"Back in the Seventies, Dean Blackwell, an evangelist in the Worldwide Church of God (WCG), was sent out to many congregations to present the official understanding of race then held by the WCG. I heard this special message in a large WCG congregation in the Midwest. To my knowledge, none of Blackwell’s material exists in official written form...”, Unless it was after 1976, I am finding it curious that “many congregations” did not include the WCG congregations in the Delmarva region because that would have encompassed about 2,000 brethren. Nor do I ever remember hearing that Dean Blackwell had this special “Gerald Waterhouse” type commission traveling evangelist roll. You do remember the Church grapevine? Stuff in Pasadena and Big Sandy didn’t stay in Pasadena and Big Sandy very long. The only time I have documented hearing Dean Blackwell speak were at Feasts of Tabernacles on sermon subjects unrelated. One would think he would have stated this teaching before 8,000 or so brethren at the FOT (Please don’t get me wrong, I am NOT calling you a liar). I am just saying Blackwell not taking these opportunities to convey the Church’s “official understating of race” to larger audiences is odd to me. Perhaps it wasn’t “the official understanding”?
You mention a link and I noticed much of what you wrote I assume are from this link and that they are in quotes. Are these your quotes of what you previously wrote OR are these Blackwell’s quotes? When you write, “To my knowledge, none of Blackwell’s material exists in official written form...” Are you sure it was official? Heck, I once heard and recorded in my Sabbath Services notebook Vince Panella in a sermon say, “How do you handle a rebellious wife? YOU RAPE HER!” I hardly think that was an “official” statement of belief by the R/WCG. Not everything that comes out of a minister’s mouth is “official”. By the way, did you keep sermon notes of this sermon, because that would be the next nearest official written form?
Surely, you cannot be saying that the R/WCG didn’t teach Galatians 3:28? Because that is where I learned this verse. Mr. Ken Westby did an entire Bible Study over several weeks on Galatians alone in 1969. (Side note, if you read some of the comments here on Banned by what I will call “drive by” posters, one would think the R/WCG didn’t teach anything from the New Testament).
As I read the comment about what Blackwell taught, I couldn’t help thinking of the Black ministers we had in the Church during my time 1968 -1976 all of whom I heard speak from the pulpit and recorded in my sermon notes and what their reactions might be to these statements. People like Harold Jackson (who I understand was later elevated to evangelist rank after my time), Elbert Atlas, Abner Washington, Ben Wesley, Curtis May, Edwin Marrs. Did any of the Black ministers express any concerns or have any reactions?
Continued
Continued:
As you said NEO, “This may be totally new to you. If so, be thankful that you did not have the corroding exposure”. This may be true, but I would ask you which R/WCG publication/articles IN WRITING state “…..that the white Israelitish people are going to be first in God's pecking order for all eternity, and all the Gentiles will be sent back to where they came from". If the only written publication source is Herman Hoeh’s Compendium of World History, my understanding is that was Hoeh’s Doctoral dissertation was just that, HIS dissertation. It was never anything that I could write into Box 111 in Pasadena and request a copy of.
Richard
Anonymous 5:37 said, "Sorry, Dude. I learned that in class at Amballador Cossage, and you said you never went!"
MY COMMENT - I am an Ambassador College reject. I wear it like a badge of honor. Apparently spelling wasn't one of your strengths at Ambassador. I don't suppose you have any notes from that class.
Richard
Dude, I was deliberately being facetious and obtuse with my spelling mainly because the spaz attack you had over my earlier statement had caused you to appear to be an Armstrongite. This was quite shocking and incredible to me, and sometimes I respond to obtuseness with a dose of my own! You haven't suddenly gone back, have you?
As for my notes, periodically I go through the things which I've collected over the years and discard all worthless items. The only HWA/WCG/AC related materials I currently have are my Envoys, aptitude test results, and IQ test results. Everything else, like worthless notes, are most likely in old landfills currently beneath housing developments which were built on top of them. I hope the toxicity of the notes is not radiating upwards and causing bad karma, birth defects or insidious disease to the residents of the houses.
Richard, as a strong critic of wcg, I’ve still often questioned the racism accusations levied on wcg. I think in the wcg we so valued those in the wcg over all others that I believe race relations among the brethren were pretty good. I do believe blacks were viewed as fully first fruit as anyone.
But it was tough on black brethren. Their dating prospects were restricted beyond the rest of ours as whites, which were still limited too.
While at the time i just accepted that blacks were generally cursed in light of canaan’s sin who was of the black line as taught in wcg. But, that curse did not extend to black members of the church who were the elect.
Mystery of the ages teaches that in the millennium Noah will relocate all the races into separate areas of the planet. This is probably what Neo was referring to.
I left the WCG before Mystery of the Ages was ever published. I first learned of the relocations from a Gerald Waterhouse sermon perhaps in the early 1960s. I had an opportunity to discuss this in private conversations with some of the black brethren during the early 1970s, and I still remember some of the comments:
"I grew up, here in the USA! How are they going to send me back to somewhere I've never been?"
"How are they going to determine who goes where? In the world, if you have 1/10 Negro blood, you are considered to be a Negro. My father is white! Where am I going to go?"
I quickly learned that the situation is much more complex than the church doctrines could explain. They poisoned this further by invoking the mark of Cain, making Canaan black, their lionizing Nimrod, supposedly black. Didn't they also teach that Annanias and Saphira were black? My parents were shocked to hear GTA tell a black joke during a sermon at the Feast of Tabernacles in Texas in the late '50s in which he spoke with an Amos and Andy accent and used the "N" word! They cautioned us kids to never repeat that joke or we'd get whooped within an inch of our lives! He had the gall to justify this by saying that he had "tested" the joke by telling it to some of the colored brethren first, and they said it was funny!
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