“The Chicago Heavy”
Kenneth M. Orel was raised on the “tough side” of Chicago, Illinois. He was my first Restored Church of God minister in 2012 when I still lived in Northern California.
Years later, he became the Headquarters Pastor here in Wadsworth, Ohio. So, when I tried to resign from RCG for the first time in March of 2021, Bradford G. Schleifer offered to let me stay if I counseled with him. I agreed because I did want to stay and Mr. Orel was my friend. Yes, I know that ministers are not allowed to be friends with lay members, but I always felt a close connection with him. We were "huggy" and I respected him greatly.
The day I resigned the second time on March 23rd of 2021, he called me. I told him that I could no longer support what David C. Pack was doing. The Restored Church of God was no longer the church I moved here for.
That was the last time I heard from him. He was my minister in California and then here in Ohio. He was my “friend.” And he never once contacted me again. No follow-up emails. No phone calls. Nothing.
After about six months, I wondered why he did not check in to see how I was doing. If he was a shepherd, was he not at all concerned about “the sheep that wandered off”? Did he not think that if he threw me a lifeline or walked the walk rather than talking the talk of a “minister,” that he could have helped me come back?
We will never know because he never tried.
I was planning on talking to him about this when I attended the funeral of a friend, Kory North. Kory was a wonderful guy with an interesting life, very likable. His laugh was a signature presence at Headquarters. Kory had major health issues and died some months after I left.
Mr. Orel was not at that funeral. I heard that he and others had contracted COVID. So I never got to ask him, "Mr. Orel, why didn't you check in on me? I thought you were my friend."
Flash forward to the spring of 2022. A good friend of mine left RCG with his entire family. I'll paraphrase him, "I used to love Mr. Orel's messages. But something changed. By the time I left, I could not stand the sound of his voice.”
This was shocking for me to hear considering how close Mr. Orel and I were over the years.
Then, I listened to his recent sermon, "Psalm 119: Transform Your Prayers." This message was given during the RCG Summer Picnic Weekend. You remember, the one where some went home with a parting gift of COVID.
This sounded like a useful Christian-living sermon about getting enough prayer in your daily life to stay close to God. In the beginning, he sounded like the Mr. Orel I knew for about nine years. He was making jokes and keeping things light with his down-to-earth delivery that I always enjoyed. He was the Mr. Orel who "played Switzerland" by not mentioning the prophetic nonsense in his messages. The Mr. Orel who told me in our last counseling session that he “doesn’t worry about” the Prophecy Series or the dates that come and go. “Who cares?” he asked. Then I said, “I care, Mr. Orel. That’s why we’re talking.”
Yes, the sermon began that way. Then it started turning sour around 44 minutes in.
You will need to watch* this to fully appreciate the “loving” tone of his delivery.
*Brad apologizes for the quality of the audio. Things have been going south technically inside RCG since the Willards left in April.
@ 44:43 You get away from brethren or at least most of the brethren and you gossip among ‘em. Or you don’t agree with certain things that are going on in the church. Certain judgments that were made. Or certain doctrines. “I just don’t know about that.” Or prophecy. Oh, I don’t really agree with it.
It is hard to see my former friend, Mr. Ken. Orel, become an enabler inside RCG.
Gossip—Brethren inside RCG have always been leery of speaking their minds openly with each other, but mainly about David C.raptacular Pack’s Never Ending Prophesy Series. It has grown to be so convoluted, that there are brethren who want to talk about it just so they can understand it. But they are afraid to. This is fear-based control.
According to Ken, if you express your concerns to others, you are gossiping. Nobody expresses outright "disagreement" with what the church does. Those who "gossip" ask logical questions about how something can fail and yet be of God.
Judgments—I wonder what exactly he is referring to here. Perhaps one judgment from Headquarters could be that a lay member is told he cannot marry a woman “significantly” younger than him. BUT a minister is allowed to marry a woman “significantly” younger than him.
Maybe how third tithe and “surplus” AYC funds are spent. Offerings are collected and not spent on preaching the gospel but used on the campus.
Those types of judgments?
Doctrines—Like Jesus Christ is not That Prophet? Or the Father comes to earth first? “Prove all things” is for the ministers now, but only applies to brethren before they join RCG, not after? That Common is even real?
Prophecy—Like that Mr. Pack is Elijah, is not Elijah, will be Elijah, has already been Elijah, is not Elijah the Prophet? Or maybe May 15, May 30, Pentecost, June 15, June 28, August 4, and August 7 is the date when God’s Kingdom arrives? Pentecost is a count “to the wrong Holy Day” and God instructs the church to count 50-days to Trumpets?
Yeah, what could there possibly be inside RCG to give anyone with God’s Spirit cause for concern? But all that talk is just gossip.
I personally know three people who all got reprimanded for the same issue: Bringing up the concept of a false prophet and David C. Pack in the same paragraph. Word association gets you thrown out. Why? Because it is completely baseless and there are no scriptural grounds for concern?
People I know never got the chance to defend themselves against an accusation. When the “instrument of enforcement” called them, they let that person explain their side, but it was only a courtesy. Headquarters had already rendered judgment before they talked to them.
If only there was a place in the Bible about answering a matter before you hear it. Or the concept of listening to both sides because if you only hear the first, that will sound right.
When an oppressive regime rises, what do they do first to destroy the freedoms of the civilians? They stop communication. They punish those harshly who speak words that are perceived to be a threat to the establishment.
The people still inside The Restored Church of God are fearful and confused. Some doubt their own intelligence and how close they really are to God. They do not understand what Dave is preaching and yet sincerely want to. How can “all the ministers agree” perpetually?
Attention folks: You cannot understand it because it is biblical fraud. It is not from the mind of God. When you see Bible verses exposing what David C. Pack is and what he is preaching, you are not imagining it. God put those words there for a reason.
@ 45:04 And instead of just dealing with that in their head or maybe reaching out for help, they're gonna start talking amongst each other and spreading division.
Members do “deal with that” in their heads and on their knees long long long before they ever dare talk to anyone. When there is an avalanche of evidence that screams that something is wrong, some have reached out to their local ministers. And guess what? Those men do not have the answers because they do not understand what the hell is going on either.
The field ministers cannot make heads nor tails of this prophecy business. It changes day by day, week by week. It is not possible for anyone, even those who want to understand, to grasp it. By the time you try to review one message from yesterday to get a better handle on it, a new updated message is then posted with “immediacy” that changes what you just heard.
Asking your ministers about the concerns you have is like knocking on a door that has no knob. The person on the other side wants to help you, but cannot. Their answers to your questions have a lot of words, but no solutions that achieve peace of mind.
@ 45:16 Is if that’s anyone, you’re a liar. You don’t come here and act this way. Why don'tcha act the way you normally act?...If you wanna gossip, if you wanna talk against the ministry, God’s servant, of doctrine, traditions. Why don’t you just say it in front of everybody? Liar! You go home and gotta do that stuff.
When you express concern about obvious error inside the church, you are now also a liar if you do not stand on your chair and shout it to the whole congregation. No wonder people do not come forward. No wonder people are reluctant to approach their minister. They are a gossip and a liar before they walk in the door.
Ken does not understand that his words and his tone create “gossip” because brethren have no other option but to quietly and carefully approach other members to gain perspective.
Those still attending who have concerns about The Restored Church of God and David C. Pack are not alone. You are not alone! Your numbers are far greater than you can know.
The Bible shows you that your worry is justified. Your eyes and ears are not lying to you, despite what Ken and other enablers may thunder from the lectern.
“Talk against God’s servant” is code for David C.raptacular Pack. Ken has learned how to tow the company line.
Wow, if only Joseph W. Tkach had used Ken’s sermon notes, perhaps The Worldwide Church of God would still be with us today.
People are afraid to talk to each other inside RCG more so than at any other time since 1999. The Endless Series is dragging on. Dates fail. Doctrines change. Elijah and not Elijah. The biblical fraud is growing more bizarre with this “not quite 50-day count to Trumpets” being the most obvious.
It is a dark time inside RCG. The darkest ever. I wonder if the "ministers" are in a panic trying to keep the questions from the brethren all over the world quiet.
@ 46:45 Again, it starts small and the devil knows what he’s doin’ ‘cause he’ll get us into a snare and the next thing you know, “Well, I don’t agree with this that they’re doing. I don’t agree with that. And I don’t like the way he looks.” And bla bla bla.
Be wary of the devil and his devices. He starts small. That is all true. What is not true is how it applies to your discernment when things are going south in the church. What are you supposed to do when “the devil captures the corporate sheepfold”?
If I were the devil, I would use God’s word and all the principles that apply to me and turn it around to defend the “angels of light” preaching falsehood. Make people afraid to talk. Make people afraid of losing their eternal life, so they better give more Common. But more importantly, I would teach them that what their prayerful discernment is telling them is of me and to ignore it.
Let us recap: You are a gossip. You are a liar. Your motivations are of the devil. Fun stuff to think about during the Summer Picnic.
Wow. All of that was for the “short” topic Ken touched on.
He continued his Psalm 119 read and quoted verse 78.
@ 1:01:55 “Let the proud be ashamed." That word can also mean disappointed. Think about it. We're asking God, "Let the proud, let the sinners, let the wicked be ashamed or disappointed."
@ 1:02:35 One time, a woman asked me, “Should I pray for my son who's left the church?” And my immediate answer was, "Yeah." But see, what she was trying to get to, which I found out, “Does that mean I can pray for their success and that God can protect them?”
Dude. What did you think she was asking about? If you did not ask at the time, then that is on you.
There is more to the story here. He gave the mother he references his “yeah” answer. It was not until after she heard this message with the rest of the church, that she found out he had changed his tune.
This was the sermon when Kenneth M. Orel became the Chicago Heavy. Watch.
@ 1:03:00 Well, they've rejected God. No, you wanna ask them that they be ashamed or disappointed in their choices and hopefully come back to repentance…this is shortsighted parents…
He goes on to explain the plan of God and that we will then be born in spirit and no longer have the familial roles we now have. Our physical families are temporary.
@ 1:03:57 …because we're in this AYC cycle, right? Over this last cycle from last year to this year, we've lost some kids. Because guess what? They've reached some arbitrary, ridiculous number in their life. Meaning, well, they're 18 now. So that means they get to make their decision, whether they're gonna be in God's way or not. Really?
Yeah, Ken. That is kind of the way it works. A child becomes an adult and then makes decisions that are their own. If RCG was such a wonderful place that was heading in the right direction and the prophecy teachings made sense to everyone, perhaps the teenagers would want to continue.
His condescending tone cannot be stressed in print. You must watch the video to fully grasp how incapable the Chicago Heavy is of “winning the hearts and minds” of the youth in the church.
I can almost guarantee you that no teenager was “won over” by his mocking tone and overt gestures. And he wonders why the kids are leaving. If some adults were on the fence, this might have knocked them over. But not in the direction he wanted.
If the “ministers” were teaching helpful messages that a teen could value instead of receiving propaganda pushing an agenda to validate a fraudulent leader, perhaps they would stay.
@ 1:05:52 We've got kids over the last cycle who've just decided they don't wanna do this anymore. “Okay. There's the door”. “What?” “As far as this house, we're serving God. You can go do what you want. As stupid as that is.”
There is nothing your target audience wants to hear more from you than that an option they are seriously considering is “stupid.” It is too bad he beat around the bush on this point and did not make it crystal clear. I recommend you give this speech again.
@ 1:06:30 There was a parent somewhere in the world. His 18-year-old wanted to no longer live God's way. “Okay, well, I'll go get your suitcase.” “Oh, that's harsh.” No…that's someone who has vision…
I am glad he is not my dad.
@ 1:07:06 "Well, I'm gonna lose my kids if I do something like that." What? Do you wanna lose 'em now in the short term or you wanna lose 'em for all eternity?
Your credit card company is calling to let you know of a Fraud Alert.
Unbaptized teenagers are not held to the same standard as baptized adults in God’s eyes. (Ken knows this.) There is no threat of losing eternal life because an 18-year-old does not want to attend RCG anymore. Church policy is that someone of that age cannot be baptized even if they wanted to AND cannot be married even if they wanted to. The "ministers" know that an 18-year-old is not mature enough to make those kinds of life choices.
The way he framed that comment in the context is not only manipulative but deceptive from a biblical standpoint. Until someone has a valid baptism (without coercion) and receives the Holy Spirit, they have made no solemn promise to God and His way of life.
Threatening a parent and frightening a teenager with eternal death seems like an extreme way to convince someone to stay in God’s way of life. The Chicago Heavy has found his stride.
@ 1:07:21 What kind of fool would allow someone to stay in their home?
He really knows how to butter up his audience.
@ 1:07:30 What kind of fool would allow them, “Okay, I give you the green light to disobey God, and I'm gonna continue to feed you and shelter you and do all that.” God's word says the complete opposite. They can go do what they want, but not under this roof.
This is a new policy inside The Restored Church of God. Ken recently read the “spare the rod” passage and ran with it. He thinks that kicking a child out of the house is better than a parent being able to monitor their behaviors from within so they can guide and intervene when necessary.
@ 1:07:52 And that's one of my burdens, what I'm trying to help and save these kids. That shouldn't be my job. I take it on. I let them know I care about 'em. But if you are not going to obey the rules of the house, you've decided you wanna leave.
How many more kids are going to leave after AYC is over because Ken “cares” about them so much?
@1:08:19 Take a stand. Don't be shortsighted. So you lose them. What does that mean? Lost them. What, so they don't talk to you? You gotta make a stand. You gotta stand for something.
Says the man with no children.
@ 1:09:27 And we’ve got parents out there and I’m telling you, parents, there’re kids out there waiting for that magical number where they get to be all grown up and stop attending the church. And if you’re not telling them, “There’s the door because I’m going to serve God. You can do what you want. But not under this roof.”
The Chicago Heavy has a merciful solution to the problem: give your kids the boot immediately. There is no point in letting the teenager make arrangements for a new place to live. If you say you do not want to attend any more while at the dinner table, prepare to skip dessert and start packing your duffle bag. Sleep under the overpass tonight. Or chose to live God’s loving, compassionate way.
So much for creating an environment of open communication. The fear the parents have in the congregation can now be practiced at home with their children.
What the hell is wrong with you, Ken?
@ 1:10:39 Your prayer should be…“Let anyone, the proud, the wicked, the sinners, let them be ashamed or disappointed. Let them fall.”
The Chicago Heavy tells his adoring audience that their children should now be considered "proud and wicked sinners" if they do not want to continue to attend. All the teens that were not focused on their coloring books at that moment might remember his words.
@ 1:11:58 …the parents don’t have enough in them to believe this verse…
@ 1:12:15 “Well, I’ll lose my kids.” Man, I’ve heard that so many times, “I’ll lose my kids.” What’s that mean?
@ 1:12:31 Parents…have the guts and the faith…
@ 1:13:22 We’ve lost some kids already going to camp for the very reason that their parents weren’t strong enough to just say, “No.”
Says the man who has never brought a life into the world.
One of the families referred to in this message left RCG within a few weeks after hearing it.
Being called out as shortsighted, foolish, not having guts, not taking a stand, not strong enough, and lacking faith was no fun for them. So, is it a surprise they left?
The Chicago Heavy played hardball and they quit RCG.
Did you catch that, Kenneth M. Orel? A family left the church because of your sermon. Your fingerprints are on their departure. Ponder that. The Chicago Heavy approach does not work.
Did it ever cross your mind that if a parent pushes an 18-year-old too far in one direction, it will ensure they go the opposite?
“Who cares?” might be your response. The parents do.
You probably never considered that once the suitcase is packed, out of sheer rebellion and anger, that teen could rush to his friend's house and smoke pot for the first time. Or immediately ask out that cute barista who always gives him a smile. Or causes them to toss their Bible into the lake because "their parents gave all our money to that cult.” Or hate religion in general because “some minister made me homeless.”
What happens after you step down from the lectern is not your concern, right? You stood up for God's truth. You told those parents how it is. End of story.
Now that we have seen how Ken applied Psalm 119:78 to teenagers leaving the church, read the entire verse.
Psalm 119:78
Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.
Can you apply the “proud” in this verse to teenagers who want to go their own way? Have any of them “dealt perversely without a cause” toward their parents? Or was David referring to evil adults who were plaguing him with serious threats?
Some teens may leave and decide to come back. I watched this happen at Headquarters. Perhaps the Chicago Heavy never considered that a parent’s “good works” might turn the hearts of their children back “into the truth.”
“The grass is always greener on the other side” is what all teens think. Reality is often different. Leaving a door open invites a return. Slamming it behind them and clicking the deadbolt does not.
I thought God wanted willing participants in His work. Threatening an 18-year-old with homelessness may not be the kind of motivation that leads to a valid baptism.
The Chicago Heavy approach does not seem to be a recipe for success.
But I was never a minister, so what do I know?
He has never been known for his “gentle touch.” I remember a specific weekend in the winter of 2020 when I received word from my sister that my mother was raced to the emergency room with COVID complications. She was having a hard time breathing. I found this out 20 minutes before Services.
Kenneth M. Orel gave a sermon about “woe is me” to the trials we experience. He gave a “man up” approach to how to address pain and difficulty in your life. It was of zero comfort to me. Because I was at the back Media Table while Ken was speaking, I was also checking for updates to find out if my mother had just died while I was at Services.
I found his tone and points to be harsh, inconsiderate, and just plain tone-deaf when it comes to empathizing with the plight of others.
When you are hurting, the last thing that is helpful to hear is, “Boo hoo. Walk it off.”
Ken, perhaps you need to sit down David C. Pack and tell him what is what. The Pastor General of The Restored Church of God announced to the church that he would be officiating the wedding of his adult son who left RCG many years ago. Is Dave going to bless their marriage with “shame and disappointment” like you just told all the other parents to do?
Yeah, I thought not.
Being the Chicago Heavy by “tellin’ folks how it is” had a direct impact on one family’s decision to leave RCG. If you would like to be a guest contributor on my website, please write me at exRCGwebsite@gmail.com.
We have the Enabler-in-Chief, Stepford Prime, Doctor Feelbad, and now, the Chicago Heavy. Maybe they are all too busy “counting 50-days to Trumpets” to be focusing on what really matters in God’s word. Maybe they just forgot or even worse, they choose to ignore it.
And where in world is David C. Pack?
Marc Cebrian
20 comments:
This condescending prick was my minister when I was in my late teens. He is exactly why I stopped attending church. He was and obviously still is totally oblivious to how damaging his words are. It's good that he has never had children. They would probably be drug dealers or murderers by now. They certainly would not be church members.
"If only there was a place in the Bible about answering a matter before you hear it."
**************
Prov 18:13: He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
You never hear the real horror stories until after you've left RCG. One was it this cute little rosy faced girl I met at headquarters who didn't want to date K. Orel and they just made it impossible for her to be with the guy that she wanted to be with, they both finally quit. And they did that same thing with a woman here in my area and she wanted to date this man but they made him jump through all sorts of hoops, Even though he was retired they wanted him to move to the town she was in, get a job in the same line of work where he was too old to start a new practice as a doctor.They both finally just quit and got married, said to hell with it. But the worst one I heard was these people from Canada had a friend's daughter that married a minister at headquarters and she was very miserable, she was separated from her family and she was depressed and they kept telling her well you're not studying enough you're not staying close enough to God you need to fast etc etc. She finally just killed herself and they sent her back to Canada in a body bag c. o. d. And I know these people and they wouldn't lie about it and they had heard of Dave Pack for years and years while he was still in WCG and all the horror stories that went on there. But you can't hear any of that when you're in RCG because then you're accused of listening to gossip or you don't have faith or you're being swayed by Satan the devil and all that rubbish!!
The author describes his wonderment about why his minister never contacted him after he left. I had the same experience. My minister Fred Kellers knew I was struggling and really going through a tough time. Eventually I just sort of faded away and stopped attending. Nobody ever called, nobody ever emailed, nobody ever reached out. Not even the people I was close with. Later in life I realized this was a bright flashing sign they were never my friends and I had made the right decision to leave.
I seem to remember a verse about the shepherd who leaves his herd to aid the one lost sheep.....oh well, so much for that. I survived the miserable circumstances I was in, in spite of no support, thank you very much, and have gone on to thrive and live a full life. So f#ck you, all of you so-called false shepherds.
Actually, although we wonder, reality is that it's a relief that they don't call. It is a reassurance that they have no further power over us. They have surrendered.
Being made aware of these formerly nameless and faceless people who support Dave in his craziness brings me back to a reality I had hoped I'd never experience again. Only this time, I realize that it's the human nature part of the power structure, because we see plainly that the same type of behavior is unfolding amongst our politicians. People repeat lies, shun and cancel those in their own party whose consciences compel them to speak out against the error and lack of ethics they witness, and deny help to those of different perspectives. Witnessing all of the evil behavior in WCG was very prophetic of what we are now experiencing as secular leaders have turned equally authoritarian, inflexible, and repressive. "Orators" wax eloquent in attempting to make bad philosophy palatable, until one realizes that they are only working to justify and sell cruelty and corruption where there had been little or none, and fairly recently, too.
Anonymous August 10 7:49pm - Please contact me. I want to hear more details about the suicide story. I never heard of anything like that while in RCG. If it can be confirmed, that is a HUGE story.
I knew the Rosy-Faced girl you referenced. She married the guy who used to stay with me while they were dating. After they both left RCG. The guy she liked before that was "too young" for her and they put an end to that relationship. -- I didn't know Ken "liked" her that way.
Horror story upon horror story. Madness and Insanity. This stuff will be fantastic documentary on the Wadsworth Compound someday. So many innocent people abused and hurt by a charlatan and deceiver. Hopefully more and more will wake up an run away from this madman. Thank you Marc for revealing the inner workings of this insane asylum in Wadsworth Ohio.
Thanks for posting some snippets of of video. I just finish watching this Clown. What a buffoon. Why do intelligent human beings fall for this nonsense. What does this Clown in a suit have to do with the True Living God? The Wadsworth Compound is nothing but a Clown Factory. Run People!!!
Back in the late 1980s while traveling, I attended services on Saturday in the town I was in. The minister opened his sermon with a few brief words and then got right to the point. He said the predominate problems that the membership was coming to him for were for financial and health problems. He then in a thunderous voice and slamming his fist onto the lectern, said; "God's church is not all about health and wealth"! I immediately thought to myself, he just ended 80% of his workload. I found out some 25 years later from one of his good friends that, he never wanted to be a minister.
I found the ministry of the RCG to be very impatient with life's tribulations. Non member mates causing problems, just divorce them is the council. A major emergency happens on the Sabbath, let it be or let the dead bury the dead is the council.
These men are caught up in a deluded dimension where everything is black and white, and everything flows seamlessly. Ken Orel is acting here no different than Dave Pack. A new tree dies, bad concrete, birds dropping foreign grass seed on his manicured expanse and Dave goes ballistic cursing everything and everyone.
Ken Orel has put on a shameful spectacle here - one that will follow him the rest of life. The same one that Ken's living where everything is perfectly simple in his aura, and everybody is lost in front of him.
Ken gets an F- for this effort. Maybe it is time he gets another job like selling a defective product to lost people who don't need it. He gets an A+ for doing that.
Their practice of not going after the lost sheep is telling in multiple ways. It tells you:
1) the ministry doesn’t love the individual, just those that do as he says.
2) the ministry know it is generally useless to reach out to those that have left. And, yet, the scripture says to go after the lost. Scripture tells others to reach out to a brother who has lost his way. Presumably there is a purpose to these scriptures in reaching out to a lost sheep or brother. But, in the COGs when someone chooses to stop attending there is probably less than a 1% chance that someone begins attending long term again, unless perhaps it was simply a congregational upset among people or a sin of passion or immaturity and not based on COG beliefs.
THIS strikes me as a proof that the COGs are simply wrong because scripture is not purposeless and if going to a lost sheep or brother rarely is effective then the Fold (church/congregation) is the problem.
3) the ministry has little faith in themselves or any of the brethren being capable of effectively defending their beliefs, let alone to bring hope and reconciliation.
Such are the problems of being in a cult and/or unloving religious organization.
Anon, Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 7:58:00 PM PDT, said:
"...The author describes his wonderment about why his minister never contacted him after he left. I had the same experience. My minister Fred Kellers knew I was struggling and really going through a tough time. Eventually I just sort of faded away and stopped attending. Nobody ever called, nobody ever emailed, nobody ever reached out. Not even the people I was close with. Later in life I realized this was a bright flashing sign they were never my friends and I had made the right decision to leave.
I seem to remember a verse about the shepherd who leaves his herd to aid the one lost sheep.....oh well, so much for that. I survived the miserable circumstances I was in, in spite of no support, thank you very much, and have gone on to thrive and live a full life..."
And yes, as Marc similarly experienced and wrote: "...After about six months, I wondered why he did not check in to see how I was doing. If he was a shepherd, was he not at all concerned about “the sheep that wandered off”?..."
******
Jesus Christ knew He was a good shepherd, while others were referred to as hirelings:
John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep."
Jesus didn't comment as to them hirelings being good or evil; however, the reality is that some hirelings may do good things while other hirelings may do evil things. Jesus acknowledged that hirelings care not for the sheep.
I was surprised to read the comment above about Fred Kellers' apparent lack of care for anybody, so perhaps Jesus didn't step too far out on a ledge after all with His comment about uncaring hirelings, but...
Time will tell...
John
Kellers? If its same guy I remember from WCG days, not surprised.
LESSON---
Even if the Emperor has NO CLOTHES , dont dare ever say it out loud !
With all the tough talk to parents about their wayward sons Dave and his rat Pack must think they are the untouchables - after all "it's the Chicago way".
Yes, I know that ministers are not allowed to be friends with lay members ...
Well then shame on Jesus for breaking the rules.
"I have called you friends," (John 15:15).
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2015:15&version=NIV
By the way, wasn't he "huggy" with the disciple John?
Anon 7:49 and Marc,
The suicide sounds very similar to that which happened in Philadelphia cog. Janet De Gennaro supposedly committed suicide after marrying a minister or son of a minister. Cal Culpepper was involved. Maybe one and the same?
No I guess I should ask Gary to remove that comment you are right. I contacted the lady in Canada who told me that and she said it was a deacon in the PCG not RCG. But the rest was correct that they sent her back in the body bag c.o.d. Creepy story.
Clowns in Suits!!
He's just a helper of their joy specializing in ass kicking is all :)
I'm glad that he is speaking this way. It helps those who are attempting to wake-up and leave RCG. False ministers teach wrong doctrines, prophesies, and traditions, and then when brethren start to see what is going on, the false ministers blame the brethren. Somehow it's always their fault for the lies that they teach.
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