Thursday, February 16, 2023

Dave Pack's Biblical Molestation

 



Biblical Molestation

 

With “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 419)” on February 14, 2023, everything David C. Pack has taught The Restored Church of God for over seven years has finally come together. The long, winding road now makes sense.

 

This content will stand still and never be changed because the truth of it is so inarguable. This knowledge is impossible to misunderstand. The Bible is made plain. The Gospel is fully understood for the first time because the context, order, and number of kingdoms just over the horizon have been solidified.

 

The Mystery of God has never been more clear and more complete.

 

Things are so on-track that Final Part 420 is coming in the next few days. Be excited, brethren.

 

That is what Dr. Timothy Ranney would have written in the press release.

 

Depending on your passion for biblical truth, Part 419 would either pop a gasket in your head or make you scream. David C. Pack filled his one hour and fifty-seven minutes with enough prophetic perversion you need to shower with an S.O.S. pad after hearing it.

 

I feel like Elizabeth Shue curled in a ball crying in the shower.

 

Part 419 puts its hand on your knee and shouts in your ear:

 

·      The Gospel is NOT what you were taught.

·      Jesus Christ has never been a king.

·      The Bible is written for being inside the First Kingdom.

·      No Laodiceans escape the Great Tribulation.

·      In the Kingdom, there will be 10 languages.

·      David C. Pack is even more significant than previously thought.

·      The Headquarters ministers are clueless.

·      Covetous people use RCG literature and the website for free.

 

 

The very beginning of Part 419 hinted that the ride would be wild.

 

Part 419 – February 14, 2023

@ 00:44 Good afternoon, everyone. There's a question that has to be resolved once and for all. Or we would all agree (yet again), as I like to say, that the Mystery of God is surely not over. And the Mystery of God, by the way, includes the Mystery of God, the Godhead including Father and Son, and where they are and Who they are through the Scriptures.

 

While working at Headquarters, I could stomach the endless prophecy updates and constant schizophrenic babbling, but what I could no longer abide was when David C. Pack and his minions started to meddle with Who and What God is. The Father and Jesus Christ are central to a Christian’s heart. Proving where and what is of paramount importance.

 

Dave occasionally put his hands on the Gospel's knee in a pervy fashion, but I did not see him blatantly molest her before. Until Part 419.

 

Others who left would state emphatically that RCG has been preaching “another gospel” for years. Former members are welcome to bite that off and write an article. Please contact me at exrcgwebsite@gmail.com.

 

@ 01:08 We often think of prophecy. But, explaining the Mystery of God ties directly to the Kingdom of God and Who’s Kingdom comes when. Christ’s Kingdom and the Father’s Kingdom and the First Kingdom [Kingdom to Israel].

 

Yes, we are back to three is the magic number.

 

@ 01:25 Christ is not the God of the Old Testament, as we used to teach. So, that’s been a big part of the Series.

 

Less than 5% of Herbert W. Armstrong's corpse just turned in his grave. When this statement was first uttered years ago, it set one of my friends off. He and his wife stopped attending shortly thereafter. He was put out for his "attitude" about the subject, and his wife quit the day that went down.

 

@ 01:41 When does Christ receive His Kingdom? Is His Kingdom the First Kingdom or the second one?

 

Do you “seek ye first the Kingdom of God,” folks, or do you seek the kingdom in front of that? Well, if there was ever any doubt, Part 419 clears it up. Big time.

 

@ 02:24 …are we waiting for the Kingdom of God or for Christ to bring something else? We’re certainly waiting for Christ.

 

@ 02:42 The very term "gospel," which is "good news" or "glad tidings," preached as a witness. You know, “word of the Kingdom” is a big clue. A great problem has been, Why or how would you announce or herald what’s already here? That has been a problem tied directly to how many kingdoms are there.

 

In storytelling, that is called "foreshadowing." Inside the first three minutes, Dave alerts the audience he is going to put his greasy hands all over Who God is, but he is also dropping roofies into the Pepsi he handed to the Gospel.

 

What is going on inside The Restored Church of God is vile. David C. Pack is molesting our understanding of God and the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

 

This junk is not found in any of their public literature or sermons. New people should be aware of what they are committing to when they join up with RCG. Hopefully, they will read some of this before the check clears.

 

 

While considering my ways, I wonder if I am the wicked who shall not understand, but the wise shall understand. One of Dave’s early points was that the Gospel’s kingdom parables compare what the kingdom is LIKE, meaning what the verses describe is NOT the Kingdom of God.

 

If it is LIKE something, it cannot BE something.

 

Therefore, all those parables about the Kingdom of Heaven are NOT talking about the Kingdom of Heaven. His First Kingdom to Israel IS what those verses are talking about.


Like means NOT IS.

 

If this makes sense to you, then you are more righteous than I. Rejoice not in that…the bar is pretty low.

 

My wicked serpent brain processes those parables as the Kingdom of Heaven NOT being an actual pearl, net, or leaven, but LIKE them.

 

He sees the comparison as the Kingdom of Heaven is NOT the First Kingdom to Israel because the first is LIKE it, but is not it.

 

My head hurts. Moving on.

 

 

Dave has a history of throwing his own ministers under the bus. If he can do that with God, then who cares how the men around him take it?

 

He goes out of his way to make this comment. How is this edifying to anyone?



@ 08:32 We have a lot of very zealous ministers who study their Bible. I probably asked half of our ministers in recent days, Which Kingdom is Christ’s? Almost none of them (I don’t think any of them) could say with certainty which one it was. They would stake stabs at it, and that's probably, at least, partly my fault. Maybe mostly my fault because of getting the number of Kingdoms straight.

 

This statement was unprovoked and unnecessary.

 

Partly my fault? Mostly my fault? That is being self-generous.

 

So, brethren in the field, do not bother to write Headquarters with questions like this. They do not know. If they do not know, your field minister certainly does not know. The ministry of The Restored Church of God did not know which Kingdom Jesus Christ would bring. Put that in the pot and marinate it.

 

Part 419 goes into great detail, and the men all know how to toe the line NOW. They will have their cookie-cutter rote responses ready for emails coming their way. There will be a lot of “copy and paste” from this transcript going forward. It may even receive Boilerplate status in CAD.

 

If Dave asked "half," that means half of these men did not know which Kingdom is Christ’s. The other half dodged the bullet by not being cornered with such an exact question. Being on the toilet on the third floor at just the right moment was a blessing from the cosmos.

 

Unless Dave asked one of the men as he stood at the urinal. A very comfortable place to be quizzed on doctrine. And I fully believe that is possible. It is not a joke.

 

Count half of these men as ignorant of some of the most critical information in all of human history as taught by David C. Pack, spanning over seven years and 418 Parts.

 

Bradford Schleifer - Edward Winkfield - Ryan Denee - Jaco Viljoen

Kenneth Orel - Carl Houk - Timothy Ranney - Salasi Jezhi

James Habboush - Andrew Holcombe - Frank Lydick - Raymond Garb

 

Have fun with which six had no idea. My choices are in RED.

 

Brad, please let me know how accurate I am at exrcgwebsite@gmail.com.

 

Dave should know by now NEVER to ask Ken questions about prophecy. He is the “who cares” guy letting information flow in one ear and out the other. He counseled Jessica Brown and me to "not worry about prophecy" before we left. Seventeen months apart, but with the same advice.

 

This comment illustrates the teaching incompetence of David C. Pack. Those closest to him have no clue what he is teaching, and they get hours more slop tossed on them than the brethren do. This should scream they do not pay attention or care. They just want to keep their heads down and mouths shut, collect a paycheck, and get through the next deadline without being stopped in the hallway with a tricky question.

 

Nobody outside Headquarters would know this happened if it were not for the loose lips of David C. Pack.

 

But, I am the wicked one for passing it along.

 

 

Dave reads Hosea 3:5 as a tenderizer for a bigger blow to the head later.

 

@ 09:12 “Afterward, (after thousands of years) shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David, their king, (and, of course, you can put your own name in there) and shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the last days.” Where’s Christ’s name? You would list this man and not Christ? That’s strange. Why no Christ?

 

Dave knows very well the word “Christ” is not in the Old Testament. It does not mean He is not there. Dave is playing word games and knows this. He has done it before.

 

Jesus Christ IS David their King. He is identified as the “Son of David” throughout the New Testament. The Gospel of Luke says this so plainly. Perhaps half of the enablers at Headquarters might know it.

 

Luke 1:32

He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

 

David C. Pack has the most astonishing piss-poor reading comprehension skills of any man I have ever heard. It cannot be repeated enough. For a Word Heroin guy, that does not bode well.

 

Listening to him carefully as he explains John 18:36 exposes which spirit guides him.

 

@ 11:43 “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world.” Uh oh. So, the First Kingdom IS this world. Christ’s Kingdom is NOT of this world…But, I’m gonna drive this tremendously, maybe all-important point home. But, if the First Kingdom is not of not this or is this world and Christ’s Kingdom is not of this world, His Kingdom cannot come until the First Kingdom is over.

 

I suppose that defining statement was not worth repeating to ensure it was said cleanly, so brethren understand perfectly what he meant. Thus are the verbal muttering stumbling of David C. Pack.

 

Jesus Christ explained to Pilate His Kingdom was not OF this world. Meaning originating from it. It originates from heaven. The word “of” is in the Greek. G1537 occurs 937 times and it means OF.

 

Jesus Christ did not say, "My kingdom is not IN this world." Those waiting for Jesus Christ to return know His kingdom comes with Him. His reward is with Him. Oh wait, that is the “old” understanding. My bad.

 

Dave takes his misunderstanding of “OF” and makes a new doctrine affecting everyone inside The Restored Church of God. His wrong conclusion is the base on which he constructs a shaky narrative. If only reading comprehension were a strength of his.

 

 

Of course, Elijah is all over the place. This is familiar to RCG veterans, but some newer folks may not be aware.

 

@ 26:59 Interesting little point here. A mistranslation which I’ve clarified. Isaiah 11:1, “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (that’s Elijah), and a Branch shall grow out of his roots.” Mistranslated.

 

Elijah is David C. Pack. He is the rod of Jesse. That is NOT Jesus Christ, so get that out of your head.

 

@ 27:37 So, why is Christ called a Branch there? And the answer is: He’s not. It’s a different word. It’s “a brilliant green shoot.” I mean, He is the Lord Jesus Christ, after all.

 

@ 27:59 He is what He is. He's just not yet the Branch. But, the translators wouldn't know that, so they translated it "the Branch."

 

Those stupid translators. It is hard to believe they get a fair shot at salvation, considering all the angst they have given The Apostle over the years.

 

 

Dave continues to chip away at what brethren proved from their bibles for years. Oops. Everyone was wrong. It is a thankless job to be the one to tell Christians they have been worshipping the wrong version of God and praying for the wrong kingdom this whole time.

 

@ 30:34 After all, He’s [Jesus Christ] never been a king. He was not the King in the Old Testament. The Father was. There's no evidence Christ was ever a King. So, He's gonna grow as a King.

 

I try not to fall into the rabbit hole of debating Dave’s theology. Countering that is not my strength, but when a patently false statement is made so emphatically, I cannot help myself.

 

Maybe Brad can write these verses down on a 3x5 card and slip it into Dave’s briefcase when he is not looking. He will not have to know they came from me.

 

Matthew 2:2, 21:2-6 / Luke 19:38-40 / John 1:49, 12:13-16

 

Dave goes all-out in Part 419. There is no hesitation or shame in what he teaches and the forcefulness with which he declares it.

 

You would almost think this might be true. Ten years of documented prophetic failure should be a bitter reminder to everyone who and what David C. Pack is.

 

He is a biblical fraud, a false apostle, and a false prophet. He is not a man of his word. An arrogant charlatan deceiving his way from failure into divine revelation.

 

But NOW he has it all figured out. RCG has a twenty-four-year history of dopey people like me leaving too early. The picture is complete now. Who is he kidding?

 

 

A blend of truth and error is masterfully presented in Part 419.

 

David C. Pack makes a career out of molesting the Bible by twisting the Word of God into an unclean abomination. A beautiful cake with just enough arsenic.

 

@ 36:38 The Kingdom of God does not immediately appear. For a few weeks before that…there’s a different kingdom. The First Kingdom could not have been His [Jesus Christ].

 

The people of The Restored Church of God are NOT waiting for Jesus Christ to bring the Kingdom of God. There is a “different kingdom” in front of that. The Kingdom to Israel.

 

You can say “The Greatest Untold Story! (Part 419)” is teaching another gospel. That is a fair way to present it. For those with eyes and ears to accept it.

 

Seek ye first the Kingdom to Israel that kicks all this off. Once that is go-time, then you know the time is short. That start time is soon, but Dave is still not telling.

 

Another kingdom. Another gospel. With a Jesus Christ who has never been a king. Simple.

 

Shame on you men at Headquarters. Shame on the lot of you.

 

And shame on you brethren who believe his blasphemy. Shame on you for giving him your money while remaining quiet. He is preaching another god, and you sit and take it. Shame. On. You.

 

Do not sit idly by and let biblical molestation occur in front of you.

 

Get out while you still can.

 

Marc Cebrian

See: Biblical Molestation

20 comments:

Anonymous said...

God sets the example for us to follow. He spanks his wife. Dave is about to get spanked and so is the rest of the RCG. Even if they get out they will get spanked; it's too late now.

Anonymous said...

Shame on Dennis who had a chance to take Pack down and passed it up out of disregard for Pack's victims. Just like a true progressive, he cares more about the perpetrator than the victim.

Anonymous said...

Shame on you men at Headquarters.

Men?

Anonymous said...

"Shame on you men at Headquarters.

Men?"

Those "men" were emasculated by Dave years ago. they have no balls or the fortitude to stand up for the truth and call him a liar. Having a nice home and salary is more important than caring for the brethren..

Anonymous said...

Is this the ghost of Dr. Meredith?

Say something about jackbooted Germans next that really gets the blood flowing!

Anonymous said...

I was just binge-watching a British TV series, one that dealt with a religious whose members were involved in suicide arson, burning down abortion clinics, medical facilities performing stem cell research, and churches that preached multiculturalism and themselves with those facilities. A minister who was one of the ring leaders came up with a very notable quote when he stated that nobody joins a cult. They join a group of friendly people who think like themselves.

And, of course the viewing audience realized that this was the perspective of the members. Reality was that they unknowingly actually had joined a cult thinking that they were joining a group of friendly people of like minds.

Anonymous said...

The man oozes with humility, or is that smell indicative of something else ...

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous said...
Shame on Dennis who had a chance to take Pack down and passed it up out of disregard for Pack's victims. Just like a true progressive, he cares more about the perpetrator than the victim.
================
This was years ago when Dave was more the WCG clone and not the delusional and personality disordered man he is today. There was no "Common" and RCG was in the exact image of HWA's WCG in normal Biblical WCG perspectives ala Dave Pack.

Dave's wife had just died and Dave's son approached me angry that I was criticizing his father's ministry. I explain to him what malignant narcissism was, he thought about it and got back to me admitting "that's my dad". He then sent me, unsolicited, letters he had written to his mom about her situation at home and said "With one letter on the Internet, I can destroy my dad. What do I do?"

Recall, the RCG at this time WAS NOT the RCG of today, nor the Dave Pack of then, the more dangerous and delusional version we see he has deteriorated into as we speak.

First of all I sincerely doubt anything the son had to write would actually have "taken my dad down". If nothing does at the moment, nothing would have then for sure.

My personal advice, and he could do whatever he wanted, was, as his son, don't burden himself with such a task that he'd have to live with as Dave being his father. Dave would take care of Dave. There was NO HINT of what came later with Dave as noted, with COMMMON. At least no knowledge of it to me personally and it did not come up back then.

I read the letters he sent me and his son wrote and agreed I was right and could I return them? I told him I had already deleted them, which I did. They would not have "taken Dave down".

I do not know what Dave's son had in mind or what "would take my dad down in one Internet post". As I said, if Dave is still holding on to members after all this prophetic BS of the past 7 years, nothing before would have any such impact on RCG and certainly not on DCP personally.

DennisCDiehl said...

PS Anonymous said...
Shame on Dennis who had a chance to take Pack down and passed it up out of disregard for Pack's victims. Just like a true progressive, he cares more about the perpetrator than the victim.
=================
You don't have enough specific information on the dynamics of this small moment that come to me personally. Dave's son believed that he had something that would take his dad down, who he resented for lots of reasons that I am well aware of. But probably it would not have had such an effect on David C Pack or the continuation of the RCG under his lack of sane leadership. This was a family matter with all the dynamics that go along with such things.

You might try shaming his son, but I'd not recommend it for your own good. You might not find any satisfaction or enjoy the outcome of doing so.

Anonymous said...

British eh.

Tonto said...

Ambassador Report June 1985- Approaching FORTY YEARS AGO!

The system of non accountability of ministers to the oversight of local boards has always plagued COGs. They run rampant without oversight! Pack has been a terror this whole time, and has never had to account!

Here is that posting from the Ambassador Report...

For a number of years now, no WCG minister's name has appeared more often in letters written to the Report complaining of ministerial abuse.

Dave Pack, a burly 6-foot, 5-inch Ambassador College graduate known locally for his authoritarian style, has so incensed some in his flock that a group have circulated an open letter detailing his abuses and have called for his removal. The letter describes Pack's ministerial leadership as a "Reign of Terror." On the cover page, addressed to WCG headquarters leaders, they wrote: "David's power-crazed quest to totally dominate the mind, body, and spirit of church members has not been done in a corner and has been done clearly in view of all to see at headquarters in Pasadena."

On the following 13 pages of their letter the allegations about Pack read like a horror story. The authors contend that Pack constantly intimidates members, uses threats and mind-control methods, is given to extreme emotional outbursts, is highly political, believes in winning at all cost, has disfellowshipped members for trivial faults, prescribes diets while "playing M.D.," insists on being addressed as Mr. Pack, enjoys wearing skimpy, skin-tight shorts to sporting events, has actually worn a wolf costume to church socials, enjoys putting down women, and told one married woman with children, "It would be better for you to shack up one night with a man than wear makeup."

DW said...

This is what happens when a very deceived man (DCP), having been Biblically bamboozled by a walking ad for narcissism (HWA), gets his dirty paws on the reigns, power and loot.

Armstrongism and all its splinters are classified as cults for a reason! They are as far from orthodox Christianity as east is from west. I apologize if I have offended anybody, but isn't it plain for all to see? The truth has nothing to fear from investigation, but cults do. Hence why you are NOT permitted to EVER question a minister or his doctrines. They know they cannot withstand strict scrutiny.

Please get out of these groups NOW!! They have been spawned from a false, heretical foundation and little to no good comes from that. Jesus did not suffer and die for you to spend your life in confusion about Who He is, what His death, burial and resurrection accomplished for us. He suffered and died to redeem us, Jew or Gentile, and bring our spirits to life (the dreaded born again HWA never understood) the moment we place our faith in His completed atonement. That is the simplicity that is in Christ! You do not need 419 sermons to grasp that.

Anonymous said...

John 1: 1-18
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. 5 And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not grasp it.

6 A man came, one sent from God, and his name was John (the Baptist). 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 [g]He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

9 This was the true Light that, coming into the world, enlightens every person. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own people did not accept Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who [n]believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a man, but of God.
The Word Made Flesh

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about Him and called out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who is coming after me has proved to be [q]my superior, because He existed before me.’” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son, who is in the [u]arms of the Father, He has explained Him.

Anonymous said...


I truly fear for DP, for now is speaking directly against Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, and saying that He was not the God of the Old Testament.

He has no fear of God or respect of God.

Please leave his cult so you don't go down with him.

Please, after you leave the cult, repent of your sin, confess with your mouth and heart that Jesus is Lord, and ask Him to fill you with the Holy Spirit so you can understand His Word. Sit quietly at home and study the Word.

When we came out of WCG, that is what we did and God showed us that the epistles say 180 opposite of what we had formerly been taught that they said. The veil was removed and we could see !!!!!

May God give you courage to come out of RCG and wash your mind of the falsehood you have followed and give you understanding and peace.

Anonymous said...

Tonto, I suspect that the ugly truth is that the church leaders regarded Dave Pack and similar as the tip of the spear of grooming members to be abused by the church. Much like the tiger tank was designed by the Nazis to be the tip of the spear of their tank formations.

Anonymous said...


As someone else has already brought to your attention, I would like to state also, that the Word in John 1,by Whom all things were creeated, was the God of the Old Testament.

The Word later humbled Himself and became the incarnated Jesus Christ. He gave up all the riches of heaven for you and me that He might give Himself as the perfect sacrifice to pay for our sins so that we might repent and believe in Him and have eternal life.

DP is 100% wrong to say that Jesus was not the God of the Old Testament.

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous said...
Tonto, I suspect that the ugly truth is that the church leaders regarded Dave Pack and similar as the tip of the spear of grooming members to be abused by the church. Much like the tiger tank was designed by the Nazis to be the tip of the spear of their tank formations.
==================
That's an inaccurate conclusion. Dave was hauled into NYC and given an ultimatum to change his ways or else. He was under the direction for a year, of Steve Botha and taken down a few notches to Dave's dismay of course. He behaved pretty well but I was told directly that if Dave is allowed back on his own, he'll revert to his old ways. They gave him a chance. He got by for a while back in the field ministry but then joined with RCM and the Global Church. I believe it was from Global that Dave started RCG. He may have followed RCM into Livng Church of God for a time. Foggy on that.

NO ONE EVER TRAINED THE MINISTRY TO DELIBERATELY ABUSE OR MANIPULATE MEMBERS. I have heard this nonsense for years and it simply was not so. The problem I always felt HQ had was simply ridding the church of the dictator types who would not change. Rather than sit them down for a good final chat, they moved them around to make others miserable. It was not deliberate. It as slack leadership by those who had many other problems to deal with during those days.

Anonymous said...

NO ONE EVER TRAINED THE MINISTRY TO DELIBERATELY ABUSE OR MANIPULATE MEMBERS.

That's not my experience. While I attended services, on two occasions a trainee minister (for a lack of a better label) was under the supervision of another minister that was a thug and very manipulative. My last minister used the exact same manipulative words as my first minister of the five total ministers that I had. So there's an informal system of training ministers into the controlling ways of Armstrongism. And not forgetting the phenomenon of ACOGs ministers sometimes using the exact same words and body language of some Televangelists. They obviously steal ploys from one another.

"It's slack leadership by those who had many other problems to deal with during those days."

That's the same excuse given by Enron executives when their company collapsed, resulting in many losing their life savings. Yeah, they were so busy that they had no idea what was going on.
Even the mafia has a code of not going "too far" so as to not draw heat from the authorities. So it's unsurprising that Dave was pulled up for a while by his superiors. But that doesn't mean that church leadership is rights respecting.

Anonymous said...

1:21 wrote:

“DP is 100% wrong to say that Jesus was not the God of the Old Testament.”

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2a Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son

Ac 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;

God is God of both the OT and NT:

“Granted, there are two Testaments in our Bible. But we have one Bible, and the God of the Old Testament is the very same God of the New Testament...” (Andrew E. Hill, 1 & 2 Chronicles, NIVAC, p.25).

“... the God of the OT is the God of the NT” (Gordon J. Wenham, The Book of Leviticus, NICOT, p.33).

But how was He God?

2Co 5:19a ... God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself

"The ultimate sacrifice of God's offering himself in the person of his Son on behalf of humanity removes the barrier of unrighteousness and estrangement between the two" (James R. Edwards, Romans, NIBC, p.105).

“... CHRIST WAS GOD’S AGENT in effecting reconciliation” (Murray J. Harris, 2 Corinthians, EBC, Vol.10, p.354).

Jn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (AV).

"His mission is to reveal the Father, but in so doing he reveals himself..." (J. Ramsey Michaels, The Gospel of John, NICNT, p.777).

Jn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.

In light of NT revelation, it can be argued that just as Jesus Christ was the God-being that interacted with mankind in the NT, he was also the God-being that interacted with mankind in the OT. Jesus Christ was/is God’s agent in both the Old and New Testaments.

"... the most remarkable thing that happened in the faith of the earliest followers of Jesus is that they came to identify him - Jesus - with Yahweh, in calling him Lord, and in many other ways. So, yes it is certainly true, from a whole-Bible perspective, that the God Yahweh of the Old Testament 'embodies' (if that is not too human a word) the Son... But on the whole it is probably more appropriate in most cases that, when we read about Yahweh, we should have God the Father in mind" (Christopher J. H. Wright, Knowing God the Father through the Old Testament, p.17).

Ro 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all...

"God the Father is always the "first cause" of everything and thus always appears in the primary position as the "prime mover"... (Gordon D. Fee, Pauline Christology, p.9).

When reading the OT, God should be understood as the Father, in keeping with His primacy.

Zec 14:5 and the Lord [kurios] my God [theos] shall come, and all the saints with him. (Brenton, LXX).

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord [kurios] Jesus Christ with all his saints.

"The christological import of this sentence lies with the fact that the kurios of the Septuagint is "Yahweh my God," who will himself come to the Mount of Olives and carry out his eschatological victory over the nations. In Paul's theology, the future coming of the Lord is always seen as the return of the present reigning Lord, Jesus Christ. What Paul has done seems clear enough: the future coming of Yahweh is now to be understood as the future coming of "our Lord Jesus," who alone is kurios in Paul's new understanding, resulting from his own encounter with the risen Lord (see 1 Cor 9:1)" (Gordon D. Fee, Pauline Christology, p.43).

God the Father, as “first cause” returns through His Son as “second cause”; just as “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself”.

Anonymous said...

There were a number of very sincere and kind-hearted students attending AC while I was there. We often discussed classes amongst friends, and extreme things, such as Rod Meredith's preoccupation with sex, homosexuality, and masturbation were well known amongst the students. There were oddities and absurdities associated with others, as well. I never heard any anecdotes from upper classmen, who were often prone to sharing just as much as underclassmen, regarding any sort of training in how to treat members. If a class such as that existed, I never heard of it. Nobody even knew for certain who was going into the field until close to graduation.

Many of the twenty somethings who went into the field upon graduation were excited about their new opportunities to be of service to the work and to the brethren. I know this, because by late May or early June, they knew who they were marrying, and where they were being sent, they were quite bright-eyed and bushy-tailed in all of this and it came through in many conversations in the dorms and at meals in the Student Center. And, remember, this is one of the bad boys (at the time) who is now sharing this with you. A bad boy who may have had contempt for these students, but who also has developed a basic code of fairness and ethics throughout the rest of life, and wants you to have correct facts!

My theory is that something happened to these guys that made them appear on "Hall of Shame" lists on dissident sites for being abusive, dishonest, and manipulative as they blossomed in their ministerial careers. I believe that those who ended up in tthe Hall of Shame (one or two of whom were good friends of mine while at AC!) were placed as assistants with abusive superiors who gave them the "on the job", or "hands on" segment of their training. The bad eggs that Dennis mentioned being moved around had enormous influence in this part of the process. They trained people! Remember, almost all organizations have their written rules, training, and traditions, and their oral, or spoken training. I don't know if it is deliberate, but there is a high level of accountability associated with the written portion. Oral or spoken is more difficult to pin down in legal situations. Your minister learned his style and ethics, the ministerial "culture", orally from his direct superior, not in class at Ambassador College!

Ok, so now you know! My question would be, what difference does it make? Those who were abused were still abused, regardless of the source. The same people who were watching over, guiding and responsible for the classes at AC were also overseeing, guiding, and ultimately responsible for the actions of the field ministry. Plainly, there was a breakdown and a failure, throughout the organization. Which is hardly surprising in a toxic cult with heretical doctrines.