Would you go to UCG as an authority on addictions? Given how rampant alcoholism is in UCG and the COG's I would be very cautious.
Since 99.5% of COG ministers have never had any training in REAL counseling and addiction counseling, I would find it hard to sit in front of one of these guys. Education garnered through years of classes and clinical work with trained thereapists advising you, have always been frowned upon by Armstrongism. Therapy, counseling, and addiction work has always been looked upon as tools of Satan by so many in Armstrongism. Addictions were just problems weak, unconverted poepel were too stupid to deal with without God's help.
I do at least have to give UCG some credit for making this rather small step. I also know that many in UCG do not like the fact the Breaking Free site is in existence, particularly it's gay related links.
Welcome to Breaking Free
We’re pleased to make this Web resource available to our church members and to the general public. It's purpose is to assist all those who are struggling to "break free" from addictions, unhealthy habits, destructive behaviors and scars from the past. It is also for family members and other loved ones who are seeking to understand and help those who struggle with personal problems.
Articles cover a wide range of topics including addictions of all kinds, substance abuse, eating disorders, personal abuse (physical, verbal, sexual, emotional), sexual sins, homosexuality, other dysfunctional behaviors and mental disorders.
17 comments:
Absolutely NOT!
If you have ever paid attention to anything here, pay attention to this!
United does NOT know what they are doing and they will be instrumental in destroying the lives they claim they will save.
What the UCG is looking for is members. This whole Addictions thing is to substitue some other addiction for them!
I have told Dennis Luker and all the rest about Rational Recovery and they will not listen about ending addictions NOW. No, you need years of sponsors -- from the UCG.
United wants to make you their slaves for profit.
If you are tempted by the 12 Step program, take a look at The Orange Papers.
Leave as quickly as you can.
United has a track record of destroying people's lives. The ministers can't even resolve their own problems, let alone advise you.
Note that they don't even know what they believe: They've formed yet another committee to study doctrines. If they can't decide what they believe, how can they help you overcome your addictions?
They are dysfunctional incompetents.
Don't get involved with them.
Well, I must admit, that you give them more credit than I do.
This is based upon the age-old idea that the only place where knowledge can come from is the bible, and that in it is the only place the answers to any and every problem can be found. Send for a minister, and since he's an expert on the bible, he'll show you where the answers to all your modern problems are located.
Missing the instruction book for assembling something you just bought? Don't google it, open your bible, the instructions are encoded in it's pages. Need to send a man to the moon? No problem, orbital insertions, rendezvous, it's all in your bible! Have a health problem? Don't see a doctor, read your bible! It says you need an annointed cloth. Then your cancer, or meningitis, or whatever will be magically healed, either now, or else in the resurrection! Trouble with addictions? Don't see a professional, call for a minister from the church who knows nothing about your problem and cares even less. He'll show you the answer directly out of the pages of your own bible.
As one of God's very elect, a minister is the only professional you'll ever need! All other professionals are secular, worldly, cut off from God, and their expertise is foolishness. After all, it is our job in the church to confound the mighty professionals.
Stupid, stupid, stupid!
I again issue the Luker Challenge he issued in 1983:
If you say you can live without it, prove it!
It's too bad Dennis Luker has abandoned what works to embrace something that doesn't.
I believe that it was 2005 when I sent an email to every last major Armstrongist church of god about alcoholism and what to do about it.
But then they haven't listened to Jesus Christ or has done what he says. Why would they listen to a nobody?
What ever happened on relying on Jesus Christ overcoming within the believer?
Don't the UCG atheist Old Testament Christians believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?
Be it according to your faith:
Failure.
Jesus? In a COG? Won't hold my breathe for that one!
It's a bit of a mixed bag. They have the appropriate disclaimer to seek professional help, so that's a plus. I'd feel better if they sent the message that getting PROFESSIONAL help is encouraged and provide referrals etc.
Sadly and of course, (A Thielism) all churches tend to send the message that the addiction is a sinful defect ultimately. Addictions are addictions. They are chemical in nature and for better or worse, your job, your church, your minister or your circumstances can drive one to find one, which makes things terrible worse.
The men I know are not qualified to understand the reasons behind reasons or what might really help.
I told my first post WCG couselor told me after looking at my intake form , "wow...you got fired by God." Ha ha, not funny at the time. Now it is. But I told him then if he pulled one scripture on me for counseling, (he used to be a minister too) I'd not be returning. He said he didn't use the Bible for counseling and he was just kidding me a bit. He was outstanding and never mentioned the Bible again.
So, yes if they send a person to Dr. or Licensed counselor. No if they start the process and hold on with Bibleisms that have never helped..trust me.
Let's just put it this way: Anyone unfortunate enough to have an addictive personality needs the best possible resources in order to beat the odds and enjoy a successful recovery process. No ACOG splinter qualifies as "the best" in this category.
Members with this problem would be better off seeking treatment from a qualified resource with a proven track record, and just not tell anyone in the church about it. If you don't recover, eventually you will become a problem to your ACOG and they're going to kick you out and turn their backs on you anyway! So, why mess around?
BB
Alcoholism is not the result of an addictive personality: Alcoholism is the result of an inherited liver disorder wherein alcohol is not metabolized as it should be and is made into a systemic poison.
People who have inherited alcoholism can never drink alcohol: It is poison to them. Alcoholics who drink alcohol need to stop immediately and stay off of alcohol for the rest of their lives.
Ignorance kills. A 12 step program is not what is needed for a severe medical problem.
It is not clear whether or not the UCG understands this. I think at one time they did.
Except for the possibility of healing (and I personally don't know a single person who has been healed of alcoholism -- they may stop the symptoms and the results by stopping drinking alcohol, but if they resume, their deterioration will resume), there is no sense in going to a church or group of amateurs for treatment. That is not a viable nor useful method of problem resolution and often creates more harm than any good.
Alcoholics Anonymous has a worse record of recidivism with people returning to alcohol than people who got no assistance at all.
Let's put it in terms that simpletons can understand: When you came into the church, you stopped eating pork. You didn't think about it much. There were no pork products support group. There was no 12 step pork program. You just quit. Rational Recovery works in much the same way: Just stop drinking.
If you have reached the third stage of alcoholism wherein you now have those terrible hypoglycemic headaches, then you do need active medical treatment or the risk of dying is very high. There is physiological damage to your body and it needs reparative therapy, including, but not restricted to, alleviating the Vitamin B complex depletion.
This has all been covered in DNArefutesBI.com and other places.
This is not about addictive personality -- this is a medical problem.
For those of you who still don't get the picture, you can read the true story of Charlie in the WCG.
Oh, yeah, that's right. If you have the wrong minister, if he doesn't see you making quick progress at overcoming your "sinful" habit, he'll "disfellowship" you, because it's obvious you need that little extra "motivation" to overcome that comes from having your reputation ruined, and being isolated and ostracized. I knew someone a long time ago who was disfellowshipped for clinical depression because he wasn't "overcoming" it. I am not kidding. These ministers can be real pros when it comes to helping people with their problems.
Yes, it is chemical and it's in the genes.
I have a full blood native american stepson my wife adopted at his birth who has been in prison and on parole and probation nearly his entire adult life over alcohol. He's now near 50. A great guy, but totally helpless if he even gets a slight taste of alcohol.
AA helps him for a while, but it's religious BS only goes so far. We need a real solution to come along in the vein of the chemical helps we have for depression. Then, we will have mainly have to worry about getting people to not fail to take the medication.
I can drink any time I want, but seldom do and then only in extreme moderation because my genetic makeup is such that I have no overwhelming drive for alcohol. It can and does sit for weeks and months, often to the point that I don't remember what is on the shelf. There's beer in my refrigerator, but I seldom even have a desire to pop the top. Once in awhile, after some hot work, I'll have one but it doesn't go down fast and sometimes I forget to finish it.
I am very thankful to have inherited those wonderful genes. Far be it from me to condemn someone who wasn't so blessed.
Tell me again about god's wonderfully perfect and loving creation so I can have a good sneer and laugh.
Doug you're absolutely right! I watched a doco the other night on nicotine addiction and smoking and they proved from studies done that a smoker has a better chance at giving up smoking by going "cold turkey" rather than using the various nicotine patches, gums etc since these are actually feeding the addiction and will make it more difficult in the long term to give the habit up. It all really comes down to genetics as another doco on twins showed. One guy lived in Britain and lived an unhealthy lifestyle, drinking, smoking etc while his twin brother lived on the opposite side of the world in New Zealand and was active, ate healthy, didn't smoke or drink AND YET after his brother went in for surgery for some heart-related problem he discovered that in spite of all his best efforts to keep healthy he had the same heart defect and would otherwise die too if he didn't undergo the same surgery! We're ALL human and have our own demons to conquer be it alcoholism, drugs, orgasm, food, etc. But what I'm thankful for is although our best efforts will always come up short He has made a way out for us miserable addicts through His Son, Jesus Christ (Rom 7:23-25)!
Yes, the Orange Papers are a great resource for info about the harm done by AA, and also has a lot of info about other cults.
AA's "success" rate is NOT any better than no treatment at all!
Like the WCG, the UCG and AA are lying swindlers, guilty of practicing medicine without a license while many people are harmed or killed in the process.
Norm
"But what I'm thankful for is although our best efforts will always come up short He has made a way out for us miserable addicts through His Son, Jesus Christ (Rom 7:23-25)!"
Oh,groan. Will humanity never see an end to this ridiculous BS.
Is there a 12 Step Program for NO2HWA addiction? Is there a pill I can take to damp it down? If I go cold turkey, I'll lose most of my friends.
M.T.Bottles
Resistance is futile ye weak apostates!
I know this entry is getting stale, but there may be some UCG alcoholics tuned in, and we wouldn't want them to be mislead.
I have known a number of people, friends, police officers, and influential business people, who have experienced successful long term recovery from their alcoholism through AA. It does work, but only to the extent that it is rigorously practiced by the individual participant. Due to the variables involved in individual personalities, virtually any recovery program is going to have a high rate of recidivism, many attempting sober living experiencing numerous failures before reaching long term success.
There are also many theories as to what causes alcoholism, involving genetic factors, family histories of heavy drinking, chronic depression, and the poison or allergy theory. I don't know that you can reduce the causes to one singular factor, although individuals can probably isolate the factor or factors behind their own alcoholism. There are probably multiple causes, but the cure is the same: abstinence from drinking.
There is a 12 step program for non-believers, Secular Sobriety, however the "religion" involved in AA is very loose belief in a "higher power", almost a "diet" version of religion or Christianity. In most cases, defining the higher power is left largely to the individual. It has been my experience that rabid or activist non-believers often see this as the proverbial nose of the camel under the tent flap, but it's basically harmless, and actually often accomplishes some good because it focusses on an external source rather than requiring someone who has been weakened to rely on him or her self.
I am neither alcoholic, nor an ACOG member. However, if I were either or both, I'd want to tap into a resource with a long history of helping people with this specific problem. As I said earlier, go for the treatment outside of Armstrongism, and just don't tell your minister or the brethren about it. It's a personal matter, perhaps a personal salvation matter, and none of their business anyway.
BB
I'm amazed at the hysteria here about 12-step programs. Religious bias aside, does anyone ever consider why secular courts regularly sentence DUI violators to AA meetings (and not to "rational recovery" or church attendance of any kind)? Or why professional medical literature regularly refers physicians to AA as an effective treatment?
It's because AA (and its related 12-step programs) works better than any other existing alternative to date.
Respectfully speaking, Douglas, your bias against AA could literally kill someone who is an alcoholic.
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