Does the fact that you have a group of old men at the top of your hierarchy who trained at the feet of Herbert Armstrong make you a legitimate true church? Rod Meredith thinks it does when it comes to the men in charge at his problem wracked group.
Having old men in charge, without bringing in new blood with new ideas and ways of looking at things and then doing it differently, is bad business practice. That is what the COG's are, businesses. Its all about money. The members have heard the same doctrines for decades. They have heard the same shouting and bellowing from the pulpit. Nothing new is discussed. Nothing revitalized is brought forth. 21st century ideas and research are not used. It's just the view points of old men rehashing the worn out words from the 1960's, 70's and 80's. None have been to a seminary outside of Armstrongism. None have dared to critically look at the book the claim to follow. None have dared to question the teachings of their idol they bow down to.
In an effort to stop defections to Dave Pack's cult and to non-ordained self-appointed prophet Thiel's cult, they toss out the fact that they have so many old men in charge. You are supposed to be impressed by these guys because the snort-nosed upstarts like Dave Pack and Thiel have never trained with HWA.
In the Living Church of God, we are doing all we can to strengthen our brethren, and help them understand “the whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). Frankly, we are far better equipped to do this because most of the older ministers and those who worked directly with Mr. Herbert Armstrong came with us near the beginning of this Work! Men like Messrs. Dibar Apartian, Raymond McNair, Syd Hegvold, Carl McNair, Richard Ames—and others—were older, experienced ministers who worked with Mr. Armstrong or, as in Mr. Ames’ case, were even placed on the World Tomorrow telecast directly by Mr. Armstrong. We have had, collectively, thousands of hours of experience in meetings with Mr. Armstrong and the other leaders in God’s Work over a period of decades. We knew Mr. Armstrong, and we knew what he wanted for the Work. We deeply respect what Christ did through Mr. Armstrong and do not in any way intend to change—and will not change—any of the basic truths Christ revealed through him, such as the Sabbath, Holy Days, etc. Sadly, there are some former Worldwide members and ministers who, in order to advance their own particular agendas, have tried to portray a “different” Mr. Armstrong than the real one.Sitting for thousands of hours in meetings does not make one a leader. Worshiping the words of HWA does not make you a leader either.
We are grateful to have had a Council that has included a significant number of men who directly knew better than these self-appointed critics!
Take that you snot-nosed buffoons at Continuing Church of God and Restored Church of God!
12 comments:
Let's look at these words on what he is reported to have said:
"we are far better equipped to do this because...."
And he mentions men such as:
older ministers
Armstrong
Apartian
McNair
Hegvold
McNair
Ames
Armstrong
Ames
Armstrong
Armstrong
Armstrong
Christ revealed through him
Sabbath
Holy Days
Armstrong
Where's "Faith in Jesus Christ"?
Where's "Jesus" at all?
Where's "We Trust in Christ?"
Where's "of the equipping work of the Holy Spirit"?
and etc. etc. etc?
What about the scripture that says "No other foundation but Jesus?"
They have laid their foundations on the foundations of men, most of whom who are now dead, and the foundations of men's doctrines, most of which are dead wrong. Any Christian ministry would say they are equipped only through Christ who lives in them who can do all things as Christ enables, not list off men as the equippers!! Listing men instead of Christ proves their focus, their error, and to me, that to call themselves a "Christian Church" is, in my opinion, a huge misnomer.
In fact, I'm hard pressed to find anything about COG's "Christian".
Pack is 65, having been born in 1948.
I know that Thiel is somewhere around 55 to 57 years old.
Its funny when guys who were making "life and death" decisions for people back when they were ordained in their EARLY 20s , now consider people in their 50s or 60s as "upstarts" LOL!
There is something to be said that "Old age and treachery always overcomes Youth & Skill" , but smart organizations , both corporate and religious know that you must incorporate a representative sample of the fresh and new.
Remember this about ALL church attendance and marketing for every church out there, whether Protestant or COG. The demographic for religious attendance and interest tends to skew older, with attendance basically 80%+ being above the age of 40.
COGs especially tend to be doctrinally based, empirically based groups. This will skew towards an older mind as well. Churches that have more youth tend to be "experiential" type churches, that are light on reason, doctrine or duty, and a more into the entertainment value of the services, both musically and in the speaking.
Again, understanding the marketing mix is important to an org. Like a soup , it needs the right percentage of mixtures of both to satisfy the various market segments.
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
(Write in Candidate for the UCG Presidency)
Rod left out Michael Germano, president of Dying University. Probably because Germano made a convincing case for New Covenant theology before being struck down again on the road to Charlotte.
Jesus started his ministry at 30. I bet most of the Pharasees were older than that!
David was a generation younger than Saul.
Meredith was an 'evangelist' at 22-24, I think. What a hypocrite.
Meredith is getting people to reason humanly and look to men. Where is his scripture that says God can't do a work through a younger man? None!
Hey Rod, wasn't Tkach appointed DIRECTLY by HWA. So, by your logic, shouldn't you have followed him?
If they can't even control their own bowel habits any more, how are they supposed to govern a church?
The good news is that all of these old, white, corrupt, reactionary, sticks-in-the-mud will be for the most part gone or at least incapacitated over the next 20 years. Because these old white men are for the most part unable to relinquish any power, they've never trained any replacements in the delicate art of cult brainwashing and mind-control. This is a setup for a broad decline across the entire movement of Armstrongism over the next 20 years or so.
Joe, you definitely get my vote for UCG president, but since you're a good cowboy, I know you'll understand my calling BS on your description of young Christian churches. I'm guessing that's what the COGs have TOLD you they are, not what you've seen from personal experience.
I'm sure there are many mainstream churches where this is the case, but in our slow journey departing from the COGs, I'm seeing a different picture from the one that's always been painted for me.
First of all, who says worship music MUST be slow dirges of self-flagellation discussing how miserable we are, melancholy sparrows and the wild beasts of the field? Who besides HWA and Dwight, I mean? Isn't some joy allowed? The fact that someone uses a drum or guitar instead of a piano doesn't necessarily make it American Idol.
Second, maybe they are light on what we in the COGs consider "doctrine" because THEY DON'T BELIEVE IT'S A VALID DOCTRINE! If you don't believe something is relevant, why would you focus on it? For example, I don't see UCG harping on the OT "doctrine" of not mixing fabrics. Chances are good you're sitting there reading this in a good ol' cotton/poly blend shirt.
Instead, my experience is some of these churches focus on the feel-good, experiential topics like controlling the tongue, not causing division, caring for orphans/foster children, being faithful to your spouse, strengthening your family and building patience, mercy and grace. Light stuff, I know. They're not the weightier matters of the law, like tithing, lobster and holy days, but the NT writers did see fit to tuck them in there somewhere. Even James, whose "epistle of straw" Martin Luther criticized for discussing any responsibility of works, dwells on taming the tongue, not showing partiality and caring for those less fortunate.
Sorry, cowboy. But I still think you'd be a heckuva president. My money's on you in a duel with Stiver any day.
And yes, I'm aware that the OT discussion of not wearing garments of mixed fabric was likely a metaphor for Israel not being "bonded" to the other peoples of the land. And that the New Covenant eliminated the barriers between Hebrews and Gentiles and so that many of the OT practices that were metaphors for Israel's intermingling with gentiles were no longer relevant. My point was that the COGs do not focus on things they have not deemed "relevant," so why would another church not do the same thing?
Well, that can only mean one thing Lurker. It's time for someone to form a COG organization that promotes not mixing of fabrics as one of its most important doctrines, and calling all those who fail to preach the importance of that for salvation to be false churches. Also, it means I get to be an apostle or a prophet now! Finally! Hooray for obscure and neglected old testament biblical teachings and those who believe in them!
No! I am the vessel who was chosen to bring this NEW TRUTH to the forefront! You are a false apostle! Send your tithes to me!!!
I just read a book entitled, 'The Antidote - Happiness for People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking'.
There was chapter that talked about a museum of failed inventions and patents. Funny, that heads of major corporations have gone there and found that "ideas" they thought were their own had already been thought of by others, and had become failed products. (Such as gender-specific diapers.)
But, how about "COG-leader specific diapers"?
Waterhouse could have bought a lot of them, and they would have enabled him to give 7 hour sermons instead of only 3.5 hour sermons!
The entire UCG Council of Elders could buy them(although they'd probably only put them on their butts instead of over their mouths, where they're REALLY needed!)
Heck, there are over 600 other splinters' leaders to market them to, too!
Plus, you can market them to the members....
I can just imagine a nice advertisement-
"ENJOY YOUR SABBATH MORE RIGHTEOUSLY AND FULLY- LET YOUR SPHINCTER REST ON THE SEVENTH DAY! YOU CAN HOSE OFF YOUR ASS IN YOUR FRONT YARD ON SUNDAY, TO UPSET ALL THE FALSE CHURCHES! (Neighbors may even become curious and ask you about it, giving you an opportunity to share the "TRUTH" with them!)"
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