With Dave Pack's recent demand that the UK members set aside £1 each day and turn it in to their local RCG minister, this article is a deliberate justification of that demand. The demand for the UK members will most likely soon be made upon other church members, regardless of country.
Orell believes there is not enough emphasis on money in the church. He also says below that in order to be born into the Kingdom of God church members should not be wasting money on frivolous things. Hoarding money for a family's own use is also frowned upon.
He then stresses that God will raise up stones to take care of the church if the members do not. They, therefore, should be grateful for this experience of having their wallets drained.
Most important of all, members MUST keep the funds rolling in and must participate in fundraising activities for the church. After all, Dave and his little band of henchmen need their livelihoods sustained. God forbid if any of them ever did any manual labor.
The entire idea that one's salvation is dependent upon how much money they give Dave is appaling. Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ever make that demand. Salvation is not dependent upon zealotry, sabbath keeping, clean meat-eating, holy day keeping, or giving. Never has been and never will be.
40 comments:
Message at holy days... God doesn’t need your tithes and offerings but loves a cheerful giver. This shows how much your heart is in the work.
Makes one nostalgic for the old days but not the HWA ones but those where the gospel was preached through healing.
Where does that money go now? Ministerial expenses, magazines no one reads and programs no one views.
Armstrongism is a product no one asked for or needs. It’s a sundial in the age of smart watches.
The pleas for money will increase from all these groups because they know their time and relevance is short.
As these groups continue to shrink and die, the pressure on the wallets of those few who remain will become more intense. As Anonymous 1:46 pointed out, the money collected is being wasted on a ministry that doesn't nurture the sheep under their care and for pamphlets and magazines that no one reads. Moreover, the audience for a religious program that harps on doctrinal differences is small and shrinking - 2020 is NOT 1965!
Unfortunately, most of the folks in these groups are completely unaware of the fact that Christians are under NO obligation to practice the tithing system that was in place for the agrarian society of the ancient Israelites. Moreover, the tithing on one's gross income (which many of these groups insist on) bears NO resemblance to the tithing on one's INCREASE (profit) which was expected of Israel's farmers! As for freewill offerings, the Biblical principle is that folks take care of their own family FIRST. They like to refer to this special campaign to repair the temple; but from the pictures I've seen of the Edmond and Wadsworth compounds, it doesn't look like any of the buildings are in need of repair! Wouldn't it be great if the remnant that is left would wake up and cut off their oppressors?
MY GOD KEN WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO YOU!
For a man with such spiritual insight, you have far fallen. Jesus Christ called the tax collectors and instructed them on how to take care of the poor. They have turned you into a tax collector and instructed you to take from the poor. But that is the commandment from THE APOSTLE. And you cajole the membership including the poor to lay at the feet of THE APOSTLE all their wealth.
There is shame and there is shamefulness and there is beyond words and this little diatribe you wrote is all of the above. The earnest plea for minute by minute and day by day giving could be more religiously given directly to the poor and needy or in thankfulness and praise to their saviour and God.
I am going to send you Ken my daughter's cheerleading outfit, skirt top and the pom poms - you are going to need it, for THE APOSTLE has surrounded himself with a collection of yes men and cheerleaders.
For those intrigued by numbers, the statement that the RCG has received donations (implied from the membership) on 1971 days of the last 2000 days is another way the RCG "plays" with numbers to deceive their membership or to shamefully motivate them into action.
Those donations are from members and donors around the world, sending money in on different days with mailings taking different time frames to arrive.
The same kind of numbers magic is given whenever there is an exodus out the doors from awakened members. The RCG always grows because the loss of members is never counted. Lose 150 members in one day and gain two later that month and the church grew by x percentage points.
Playing with the numbers is what this group is experts at and it is their most enjoyable passion as long as the numbers continue in their favor!
“He then stresses that God will raise up stones to take vare of the church if the members do not. “
Well, Dave Pack does have a stone in his chest where his heart should be, and rocks in his head where his brain should be. Does that count?
Well let's all test god and see him raise up some stones. These people are beyond lost.
", for THE APOSTLE has surrounded himself with a collection of yes men and cheerleaders."
Dave Pack is the drain surrounding himself with spiritual scum
I've read several books on abusive Christian cults, and a common denominator is that members desire to please God and live by the Bible is ruthlessly turned against them. It's like some styles of self defence that emphasize using your opponents strength against themselves.
There's a reason why one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse is religious deception.
It's understandable if young people are deceived, since it takes time to "prove all thing." But most ACOG members are getting along in years and should know better by now.
He then stresses that God will raise up stones to take care of the church if the members do not.
Maybe we should do God's work and send him stones?
"He then stresses that God will raise up stones to take care of the church if the members do not."
The members ARE the church! It is NOT an organization; it is all people in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, and who are honestly working to change their lives in order to be more like Christ - regardless of congregation or organization.
A strange parallel emerges when comparing what went on in a recent Polk County Sheriff's report and what is happening in the RCG.
The Sheriff was informing the public of another successful sting operation where they took down what he termed another human trafficking organization. But the Sheriff then stated that they were again getting backlash from the public who say they are wasting tax payer money on what is after all just a business transaction.
So obviously the same argument or question could be put forth concerning what is going on in the RCG. So is what that is going on in the RCG just a business transaction or is it human trafficking?
Obviously from this article the relationship of the head of the church and the ministry is as impersonal as it gets. With the quote; "Understand, God can raise up stones to do his work. Consider yourself privileged to be a part of it" what is a member to think other than they are completely replaceable.
The young women on the street are told the same thing - they are replaceable or you have no other place to go. The same conciousness of mind for survival takes place in these young women as it does the RCG church member when they hear words like that from the ones in control of them.
The captured pimp in the sting operation was a married man who get this, was receiving government welfare. Dave Pack, who we can insert into this scenario as the pimp on welfare for sure, whose welfare and extravagance is paid for by the obesent and trapped membership with no other place to go in their minds.
The John's who in this sting included a married pastor, a security guard at Disney world, a youth counselor, a youth sports coach all looking for the fictitious 13 year old girl or 14 year old boy of their dreams. All of these men were in positions of trust. The ministers of the RCG could easily be inserted into this scenario as the Johns. The ministers interact in the most personal way while interacting in the most impersonal way with the membership as they take from them their will and their freedom in a monetary transaction that throughly satisfies the minister (John) because it all appeases THE PIMP.
What is really disturbing and enlightning in this parallel scenario is that Polk County offers those that they consider the victim - those that were trafficked, a completely clean slate, no arrest record, no fines, no jail time if the victim agrees to enter a well established and funded program to help them. The RCG denies that there ever was a clean slate and confines the member into the cage of fear as one marked for tribulation or death if they don't do what they say.
If the Polk County Sheriff showed up Wadsworth with charges for their conduct, what would be Dave Pack's defense? I can assure you it would be, it is all just a business transaction. What is very easy to see with all of the evidence put forth is that The Restored Church of God is an organization that is operating in human trafficking.
7:07 wrote "The members ARE the church! It is NOT an organization; it is all people in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, and who are honestly working to change their lives in order to be more like Christ - regardless of congregation or organization."
This might be true if RCG members were actually Christians, but they are not. They have supplanted Jesus with Pack. Salvation is only available to them if they give money and do all the things HE says. Jesus never figures into any of his conversations. There is absolutely no possibility that any of them can ever work to change their lives to be more like Christ. It is impossible and will never happen unless they leave.
"Understand, God can raise up stones to do his work. Consider yourself privileged to be a part of it" what is a member to think other than they are completely replaceable."
Then go ahead for a change. Let's see if God can raise up stones to do his work. These kind of statements in the Bible are much like another. Matthew 21:21 "Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done."
You have never seen this done by anyone of faith and you never will. These statements are meant to emphasize, in this case, a lack of faith and shame on you if you have doubts. While the other, a lack of getting your act together and support the controllers. No rock can do God's work just as no doer of that work can cast mountains into the sea with their great faith, even if as small as a mustard seed.
8.43 zPM
Worshipping the church and HWA has always been a trait of the WWCOG and its splinters.
Dave is just continuing the tradition.
Dave differs from the other ACOGs by not pulling any punches and devouring the goose the lays the golden eggs.
It appears that Dave aroused Rod Meredith's envy, so he joined in by asking his members to send in their "excess" wealth. After all, why should Dave get all the members loot.
When you look at the RCG, think RICO laws and see what you come up with.
Interesting that they chose the Jehoash story but left out the first part, where the priests failed to repair the temple and Jehoash/Jehoaida had to make them swear not to take any more money from people until it was done.
Pack definitely doesnt want to be held to that standard.
Pack's minion wrote: "members should not be wasting money on frivolous things. "
>>>>>>>>>
Yeah, you know, things like food and clothes. Doesn't the Bible speak about spending at the FOT as "whatever your heart desires"??
Within the confines of morality and Gods law, I dont see any judgement there from God on what one spends their money on. Oh such little faith from Pack and many other religious leaders of our times. The New Testament Church, which spread like wildfire in a secular and paganize world, did NOT grow because of money, or a centralized Head Quarters money collective.
The New Testament Church did not spend money on media. Things like town criers, or carved stones at the arena , or guys on chariots with megaphones . No, thru the power of the Holy Spirit, and the relationships of the individuals with the example of changed lives , the Church grew. The personal testimony of individuals.
Such a work is not dependent upon money. The Gifts of the Spirit are free, and its power nuclear. IF such is not being manifested in a church, and if money is not working for them, then they must do some serious introspection on to why such a system is not working.
Of course , self interest, and vested power will not allow for this in any human organization. Thus Jesus' admonition against being a Pharisee.
Tonto:
Doesn't the Bible speak about spending at the FOT as "whatever your heart desires"??
You're supposed to keep 10% of your increase (minus 1% for Wadsworth) to keep the Feast. Since you've already given most of your income and savings as "common" the Feast of Tabernacles is the one week each year when you'll be able to live like a comfortable human being.
Tonto wrote: The New Testament Church did not spend money on media.
That's a lie. Paul occasionally hired scribes to write his letters (see Romans 16:22).
What he didn't do is offer "FREE [sic] LITERATURE !" to "co-workers" who responded to those letters.
There is an additional way of looking at this stones thing, 3:38. I believe that the leaders of Armstrongism know deep down that God would never raise up stones to do the particular work which they are doing, because God does not endorse or validate that work. It is totally of men, and men must therefore do it themselves if it is to be a success. They can pretend to be the gatekeeperrs to their congregants' salvation, all the while presiding over little, insignificant works which are based on prophecy, but are actually clueless regarding prophecy. Take your largest ACOG. Globally, each has at best no more members than your average big city megachurch. The difference is that the megachurches are actually growing, while the Armstrongite churches are slowly dying, and the members aging towards death. No one splinter has emerged as the blessed one, the vibrant and growing standout with the so-called mantle with just the right combination. If the work of Armstrongism were the work of God, this most certainly would have happened. Figuratively, Armstrongism is Tyre.
BB
Sometimes people can’t leave ...
I am a baptized member of the RCG .. I got baptized (dragged into it) when I was alone in life and looking for answers. Like many others I would say.
The ONE reason I am NOT leaving today, is because my spouse is in the church (and still very much beliefs what Pack & his Wolves are telling the little sheep). By staying I can at least keep an eye on things. Meanwhile I pray every day that my spouse will ‘wake up’.
And now the sad thing: I know that in my congregation there are at least three others that are in a similar position. We stay put because we want to protect our loved ones. If I leave, the church will order my spouse to get a divorce and they will then get their hands on everything WE as a couple have worked very hard for. I’ve seen that happen over the last few years as well.
Pack doesn’t care about Christ, God, his ministers or any of the brethren. He only cares about himself. I know that, a lot of the brethren in the RCG know that. And yet some us stay .. For a very good reason.
8:42am Keep on keeping on.
km
PS And it feels good to talk to people with a similar outlook on the COG!!
I will! And if you want any inside information, don’t hesitate to ask. I don’t have any problems with exposing the Wolf Pack for what they really are.
For obvious reasons I will stay anonymous ..
Anonymous at 8:42...
Sometimes people can’t leave ...
Im very sorry for your situation and that of others. My sincere concern and prayer, for you and others. May the Fuhrer of Wadsworth's days be short.
yep, he's going broke...everyone already gave all they had, so now there is no money left to give....
the "common" chickens are coming home to roost.
hang tough 8:42AM
hopefully you will be able to show her in the bible where Dave is misleading everyone...
Does Dave still go to the doctor for his heart problem? Did he have a pacemaker implanted? It looks like it is a good business there at RCG. Lots of money has been spent. Is there debt? What is the number of members? Has the membership increased in the past 5 years?
According to David Pack ‘God has healed him completely’ and nobody knows what really happened. So I couldn’t tell you if he has a pacemaker implanted or not.
When it comes to the finances of the RCG: you do the math. During the last FOT I heard one of the ministers from HQ say that there are only 1,500 brethren left .. ‘We are the true little flock!’ was Daves comment on that ..
The fundraising goal for 2020 is $147,500. What has been raised so far is $19,044 ..
When it comes to fundraising, there is even a section with fundraising tips on the RCG website. One of these tips is this:
“FUNDRAISING TIPS
Energy and Miscellaneous Savings Around the Home
As monthly bills trend upward, who would not want to know helpful money-saving tips? These can translate into real monthly savings that can be put to good use. What better way to put those savings to work for you than to further God’s Work through Fundraising. With a few minor adjustments, your savings could add up quickly! The following are some of the many ways to save money around your home.”
What follows is a long list that you can cut down on, like turning down the thermostat in your house, switch of lights and not use a dishwasher.. In other words: sit in the cold and do your dishes by hand and send us the money you save on your energy bills!
And people do that .. I’ve seen it. Even had a long discussion about that with my spouse..
More and more people are leaving the church. In my congregation 8 brethren left since last years Passover and only one (very young and very gullible guy) joined us. I felt like warning him, but that would be pointless..
A lot of the work that was done at HQ, the grand garden and the stables (!) was done by brethren ‘volunteering’ for it. It’s considered an honor if you get invited to go and slave labor at HQ ..
This is an e-mail we received yesterday. I don’t have to tell you what the next message from Great David will look like, considering the announcement regarding the travel ban that was made by president Trump ..
This is the full length text:
Dear brethren,
The letter you received Monday stating that each day this week could “become more horrific than the one before” is proving true. No one could want the things we are seeing. But they are indicative of God’s soon intervention!
Like so many of you around the world, troubles are hitting “close to home” here at Headquarters. Ohio’s governor held a press conference Monday. There are now four confirmed cases of Coronavirus in the state. All are in nearby counties. But we here at Headquarters remain anchored by Christ’s command to “fear not.” Reiterating what Mr. Pack mentioned in the last email, God’s people have no need to worry!
The world on the other hand is entering full-on panic mode. Whole nations and many, many institutions are shutting down almost completely over this virus, but God’s people should certainly not “shut down” in their faith. The German chancellor today warned that as many as 58 million—70%!—in her country could fall victim to the virus. This translates to 2 million dead in Germany alone! And news reports indicate most Americans will come in contact with this pestilence, which the World Health Organization today declared a pandemic!
All this bad news, compounded by other bad news around the globe, caused the Dow to fall 1,465 points today—the second-worst drop in history. Such volatility (it could again rally as it did yesterday) will almost certainly continue until markets close Friday.
This very high-level look at the news alone proves time is short and confirms that, as much as we can possibly know, everything appears to be “go” for this week. The Big 12 must be BAD at Christ’s Return—and they are! But—BUT—they cannot be so bad that they conflict with the picture of ongoing eating, drinking, building, buying, selling and marrying described in Matthew 24 and Luke 17. Ask: How many would even go out in public were another week of horror added beyond this weekend? This is HUGE—and leaves us with a very tight window that appears to be closing NOW. In the remaining days, let’s more joyfully than ever hold to the closing words of the Bible: “Come, Lord Jesus” (Rev 22:20)!
In Christ’s service,
The Headquarters Ministry
@ March 12, 2020 at 1:22 am
Thank you for sharing, I am extremely saddened to hear about your situation. You truly love your wife, It's obvious. When I was at Headquarters i saw with my owns eyes the ministry and Dave pack get uniquely involved in marriages of their members. Especially where there was huge sums of money involved, Dave takes personal interest in the outcome often fueling discord between long-time partners.
I've heard them counsel spouses to demand their half to submit to the church, even in some cases getting church legal advice from Dr. Pastor. What makes me the most sick is how they encouraged the wives to battle against their husbands and take what is there's. They stirred division in homes with flawed counseling given to them by dave pack himself.
At the time that the common doctrine was being taught a whole set of talking points by Dave was given to his yes men on how to deal with spouses where one wanted to give all and one held back. The counsel given from the top is on its surface so divisive and opposite of his malachi command to bring unity.
Dave pack makes all these biblical excuses for breaking homes.
In regards to the volunteering, when i was there at HQ i was one of the many who help lay down sod on the entire lower campus level, i was there as it went from just a plot of land to this giant campus. Truly people see it as an honor to do volunteer work, but they are also systematically shamed into doing it. One prime example of this was during a staff meeting.
Pack made it a point to tell all of the employees at HQ that their service to HQ was rewarded by the pay they earned on the clock. That in order to build works and gems for their crowns they needed to go above and beyond their employment at hq and sacrifice like non-employee members were. This was in regards to being on the campus on sundays.
The church is supposed to be somewhere u go to get energy, hope, an outlet from depression, anxiety and all of the things the world burdens your shoulders with, its supposed to be your mother. In that sense its the place you go to for nourishment.
But RCG is the complete opposite you "pay to play", "buy your salvation". RCG drains you, physically most of all, especially the younger folks. It drains you mentally and spiritually you take a huge hit. Grossest of all you end up financially in dangerous unstable circumstances. And for those who give it all up to go be an employee, move across the country, take a pay cut at hq and they pay all ur tithes what u truly make is chump change. They suck the entire lifeforce from u and toss u like trash the moment u challenge them or begin to come to your senses.
RCG is a pit.
Anonymous 1:22 is David Pack still in his series? I heard he was up to 265? Could this be true?
Dave's common doctrine makes him the Bin Laden of the ACOG leaders.
Dave likes giving himself biblical names, he should consider calling himself the End-Time Rehoboam [Solomon's son, who refused to lessen the demands for money made by Solomon for his building projects]. RCG desperately needs a Jeroboam [who broke away with the majority of Israel].
RCG members are clearly not thinking. If what Dave Pack says is true, then he's going to be one of the policy-makers in the Kingdom, and would hypothetically be continuing this farce for all eternity. It would make better sense to opt out of all that through the Lake of Fire. At the very least, members should seek out a less toxic ACOG, or go for a total cure and join mainstream Christianity.
BB
Anonymous at 1:22 AM said...“A lot of the work that was done at HQ, the grand garden and the stables (!) was done by brethren ‘volunteering’ for it. It’s considered an honor if you get invited to go and slave labor at HQ .”
It is an HONOR to support the truth of God and the true church of God.
Being deceived and tricked into supporting FALSE PROPHETS like Gerald Flurry and David Pack and their satanic imposter cults like the PCG and RCG is a great SHAME.
Still waiting for your boldface regarding LCG.
Yes BB maybe they should join the American Baptist church.
Being deceived and tricked into supporting FALSE PROPHETS like Gerald Flurry and David Pack and their satanic imposter cults like the PCG and RCG is a great SHAME.
Still waiting for your boldface regarding LCG.
Being lulled into sleepily supporting the confused and lukewarm (but still authoritarian) FALSE PRESIDING EVANGELIST Gerald Weston of the LCG is greatly LAME.
3:44pm You are pathetic!
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