Sadly, this entire scenario Dave is creating has the potential to lead to deadly endings. We may see another Waco happening or see RCG members killing unconverted spouses so they don't have to suffer during the tribulation while they are safely in Petra.
From an RCG source:
Meanwhile, David Pack has given his story yet again (..) a new twist, telling the RCG members he now knows (for sure!) when the Big Event will happen! It’s like watching a soap series, with a new cliffhanger every week over the last year or so. Making you wonder why there’s still people falling for it..
This is the Packsters latest announcement:
Our Passover Watch Continues!
By now it is clear God wanted at least some of us to keep the Passover. Everyone east of the U.S. concluded services hours ago, which presented a great question: Does God want all brethren to take the symbols a final time?
Passover is a fixed date. It is not going to move. It is still the Day of Christ—the Last Day—“that Day”— and everything else we have come to understand. Of course, what we have long wrestled with is when events begin to unfold. Related to the question above, a second great question emerged: Would Christ really return before His day (Passover)?
The answer that perhaps should have been evident is a resounding no! Before proving this, let’s reason together. Which day would God want to memorialize—Abib 13 or Passover itself, Abib 14? Would God merely “come close” when aiming for a great Passover event? How could “THAT DAY” come “unawares” (Luke 21:34) on ANYONE if events began to unfold the day before?
There is simplicity in Christ, and this has proven truer than ever at the end. You will almost certainly agree by the end of this letter!
Deuteronomy 16:1 becomes even more central: “Observe the month of Abib, and keep the Passover unto the LORD your God…” Our watch is inextricably tied to Passover!
Many verses support this understanding:
* First consider I Corinthians 11:26. We “eat this bread, and drink this cup” showing Christ’s death “till He come.” In one sense this could be taken to mean right up until He comes!
* Verse 27 shows how much turns on this: “Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.” We have long understood the process of self-examination that precedes Passover. Yet think about this in relation to the imminent period of judgment when Christ arrives. In verse 29, Paul adds, “He that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks damnation [judgment] to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.”
* Ask: In light of I Corinthians 11, might God want to see how His people scattered across multiple continents in multiple groups—and in a world under lockdown—take their final Passover, ahead of the Great (Passover) Supper that will occur later in Abib 14?
* Peter wrote, “the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God” (I Peter 4:17). What better way to start this judgment than all God’s people observing a final Passover service?
* Revelation 22:11-12 reads: “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And behold, I come quickly [after this judgment process begins!]; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
Brethren: nothing will happen before all have taken the Passover—nothing even can! Nothing was ever scheduled to start before Abib 14. That was always God’s target date—the last day possible that we could “back into.”
We have all been intently watching, and now will through Passover evening. Every “night” verse we have considered comes into play. The night they speak of apparently points to tonight! Of course, on a round earth, many who have already kept the Passover would again be working, satisfying other verses we have long had to factor into the prophetic puzzle. Maintain faith—and HOPE!—to the very end. Passover has not moved. We have merely moved closer to Passover. We are so very close!
Not close enough buckwheat! Christ did not return. He is not in Wadsworth. He is not even shopping at the Giant Eagle for a bottle of Harvey's Bristol Cream.
Once again, Dave's cabal of ministers sit there supporting these lies, knowing full well that Dave is full of bullshit. There will be blood on these men's hands before this is all over.
29 comments:
Affecting for the moment the style of Bob Thiel, could it be that Dave has lost it and is beyond all help? (wild, fake-Italian hand gestures)
How can it be that he still has any followers whatsoever?
Imagine your spiritual leader assuring you that Jesus Christ was going to return on day X. You are elated, basing your very being on that happening. It does not (again!) Would that not be the single biggest let down in your entire life?
BB
A Pitifal walking backwards off of the donkey dung he has dumped upon his members for the last 950 days.
Now we really know why 100 cars were in the parking lot this past Sabbath in defiance of the governor of Ohio, it was a ministerial confab to pull out of a hat the latest shift in narrative that is "impossible" not to see as a cover to the woeful failure of last weeks prophetic suredy of great horror to come upon the world and those 12 bad men that were going to be bad and the magnificent event of the coming again of the Son of Man.
Speaking of cover; on the most sacred night in COG land, a moment to look back on the covering blood of the Savior, Dave Pack had to write an email to his brethren before all of them even had participated in the Passover, distracting their minds unto himself with his save my ego message that only proved that he was bold enough to dip his hand in the sop and thereby show who the unclean one really is.
Dave Pack has indeed sold the body of Christ for not just 30 pieces of silver but for 30 million dollars.
"Let us reason together" has been the ongoing refrain from the Pack led yes choir for years. I would hope that a majority of the RCG membership would reason together and come to the clear and present conclusion of just who and what this man is.
Did you notice how many times Dave said "I was mistaken again", "I was mistaken", "I was wrong", "I keep goofing this up", "I know I make shit up" etc? Meither... Dare we slip these light terms into the lies category? Yes we can! You'd think someone who has been this wrong this often might lose some credibility. All I can imagine is that the Council of 16 which may be down to 12 or 3 by now and the entire Restored Church of God ministry and membership has gone brain dead a long time ago. You're probably going to regret the lack of that critical thinking skill stuff pretty soon now. Dave will teach you all that when you head tells you one thing and your stomach something else, your head is lying to you.
Narcissism does not allow for these possibilities. What you then get is a cobbled from scripture justification, again, for not understanding and then understanding better. Dave's hindsight is prophecy coming alive!
Dave notes: "There is simplicity in Christ, and this has proven truer than ever at the end. You will almost certainly agree by the end of this letter!" However, the NT Simplicity that is in Christ and in context, is not the complexity Dave assigns to it over and over.
The Good news is, however, is that the gods are giving us more time added on to the last 2000 years that clearly define the words "shortly", "soon" and "of things which must shortly come to pass" and "Behold I come quickly" Add to that our complete misunderstanding of what a day is to God and ...well there ya go. How could we not understand that!
C'mon Dave, invite me to debate you. No wait...that might get me sick and die during this present distress. You've been a bad boy and not prone to " Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." "Ordained of God" probably makes you nuts. We know it does Bob Thiel.
Invite me when it's over and you and your congregation has been certified safe to be around
con't
Physically safe that is. You and yours are never theologically or spiritually safe to be around. Ever...
Dennis - do a fake debate with him like HWA did with chairman Mao.
Make up his responses for him.
As I imagine most people with current or former COG ties know, Passover has a "makeup date" a month later.
Is Dave going to rely on that when this one doesnt happen, or is he going to claim its anytime between now and next Passover?
What explanation would they have if Christ returned on Easter? After all the early church believed that the Lord's day was Sunday from what writings I have read.
Why do they have big Television Production Building when they can't afford to buy TV time??
Just like loser HWA: a colossal money-waster!
Dave, and people like him, are fuel for websites such as this....
he in no way represents The Church.
Quotes from David Koresh that sound eerily like Pack...
"These people remain here because I have thoroughly opened to them the seven seals."
"If the Bible is true, then I'm Christ."
I apologize for leaving such a plain and vanilla statement about the price of 30 million dollars that Dave obtained from his membership as the price he obtained for the body of Christ.
Dave Pack layed it all and I mean all on the line in 2016 when he point blank told his membership that Christ's price was; all that they have - all of their physical possessions and wealth. In case the members didn't quite understand that statement, he quickly put forth the "why would God's Church be any different than the world, if you want to play then you have to pay" statement that left little doubt as to what spirit this man possesses.
Digging a little deeper into the atrocity of this letter and its timing, a look a little closer at the dialogue is needed.
Dave Pack states: Verse 27 shows how much turns on this: “Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.” We have long understood the process of self-examination that precedes Passover. Yet think about this in relation to the imminent period of judgment when Christ arrives. In verse 29, Paul adds, “He that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks damnation [judgment] to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.” * Ask: In light of I Corinthians 11, might God want to see how His people scattered across multiple continents in multiple groups—and in a world under lockdown—take their final Passover, ahead of the Great (Passover) Supper that will occur later in Abib 14? * Peter wrote, “the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God” (I Peter 4:17). What better way to start this judgment than all God’s people observing a final Passover service? * Revelation 22:11-12 reads: “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And behold, I come quickly [after this judgment process begins!
So righteous Dave having already come through the Passover unscathed in his minds eye, cuts in on everyone elses Passover night to declare that God is looking down upon them in judgment on their FINAL Passover.
So let's put the whole story of what happened on the Passover last night in the RCG together. On the most sacred and solemn night of the year, Dave Pack caused a pause in the ceremony by interjecting himself via his letter right in the middle of the interaction process to show himself as the the unclean one. Having already acquired the price of his membership per the agreement of 30 million pieces of silver for this night in one act of betrayal, he then went the whole way in betrayal and had the minds of his membership (body of Christ) arrested and condemned with the judgment of God upon them this night.
Some 2000 years later the same Passover event played out last night in the RCG as it did in 30 A.D. Only the characters changed, but the end result was all the same. The innocent having been already prior examined and covered and declared innocent, were betrayed and condemned unmercifully.
If this night didn't offend those in the RCG and those without it, I don't know what will.
Are we really understanding this picture correctly? Just doesn't seem right. I don't know the RCG and I don't know Pack. I do recall how difficult it was for outsiders to understand David Koresh - you know, the Seven Seals. I think law enforcement brought in Tabor at Waco to try to decipher all the Millerite strangeness.
Some things that nag at me:
Christ's return for Millerite prophets has always existed within a framework of specific events - "a countdown" as GTA used to say. I remember Hoeh carefully resetting the expiration of the Times of the Gentiles to 1982 at the Feast in '79. What happened to all those predecessor events in this case? This new event seems like an anti-prophecy, really. Many Biblical prophecies have been swept into the trash bin to be replaced by something totally innovative - by whose authority this innovation?
And I wonder what the ultimate rationalization will be? It will have to be artistic. Am I right to expect a high quality rationalization? Not something dilapidated and self-serving like "Christ didn't come because you all weren't tithing faithfully. Now I am going to have to preach a whole series on tithing."
Maybe we are being fed disinformation by people who just want to see us jump? Dennis is all stirred up and I am beginning to get that way.
Remember 1844, 1975 and 1993 and all the other Miller, HWA and Houteff dates of infamy.
I know David C Passover, as he claims his last name really means, may have to face that
The medieval given name may also have derived from the Middle English "paske", Old French "pasque" meaning Easter, and would have originated as a nickname for someone who was born at Easter,
Read more: https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Pack#ixzz6J20wA4QG
So technically, he can give himself a bit more time up until Easter. After that, he's on his own til next year evidently. Maybe he's confusing the coming of Christ with the arrival of the Easter Bunny?
Concerning his prophetic expertise, he has only managed to lay a giant Cadbury Chocolate Easter Egg, commonly known within COG circles as a Pack or perhaps Passover Egg
There's already spiritual blood on the hands of Dave's ministers.
I would have to be them on judgement day.
Anon 7:54 wrote:
There's already spiritual blood on the hands of Dave's ministers.
I would have to be them on judgement day.
Why would you have to be them? Because you are also imperfect, yet "judge not, lest ye be judged" means that you're going to be judged by the same measure you are meting out to them? Yes, you and Dave's other critics and enablers may in fact meet his same fate, so be careful.
Near_Earth_Object said...
Are we really understanding this picture correctly? Just doesn't seem right. I don't know the RCG and I don't know Pack. I do recall how difficult it was for outsiders to understand David Koresh - you know, the Seven Seals. I think law enforcement brought in Tabor at Waco to try to decipher all the Millerite strangeness.
Neo, you are not going to understand the picture trying to filter it through HWA, Herman Hoeh or GTA. Dave Pack made this his and his only signature movement by apologizing to the congregation for not being able to "hold" to all that HWA taught. He shortly later as the doors were slamming with all the departures claimed; "I haven't changed what Mr. Armstrong did one wit".
To save you over 20,000 hours of back story, Dave Pack broke it all down to it's most simplistic reasoning concerning this subject. He said: "we now believe exactly like the rapturists do except for one thing. They believe Christ will come at any moment and take them to heaven, and we believe Christ can come at any moment to the church on earth".
The parameters of how the "thief" event could only happen at Passover or in the Spring of the year has its genesis in the multi year back story.
Now you can see the setup for another great Millerite tragedy with David Passover Christ at its center.
It's the "greatest story never told" Neo, but it is a story that has already played out in our lifetime.
The David C. Pack Story
The Real Truth
David C. Pack started off by saying his Restored Church was going to restore all of Herbert W. Armstrong's old teachings from the time of his death in 1986.
David Pack originally said he was going to reprint HWA's old books and booklets, but then decided to rewrite them in his own words instead.
Later, Dave deleted some of his own booklets, such as the one proving that HWA was the Elijah who had RESTORED ALL THINGS, so that he could become the Elijah with the power to make up doctrines. Posthumously promoted HWA out of the way to the office of Moses. Said he gave HWA back “two feet taller.” Also deleted his own booklet proving that Jesus Christ was That Prophet of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 so he could become That Prophet.
Wrote an awful lot (note the emphasis on awful) of additional literature to make everything as clear as mud.
Simply could not stop making up predictions that all failed, even though he had said after his August 31, 2013 wrong guess (that had been backed up by 56 proofs) that he would certainly never make that mistake again.
Made up hundreds of proofs for various things that really did not prove anything, ever.
Made up many new truths such as his First Dominion series of never-ending prophetic nonsense that was all lies.
Restored his COMMON theft doctrine that everyone must send him virtually everything they own (savings, retirement funds, possessions, houses, etc.) -- “or no salvation if you don't.” (NOTE: Not for redistribution to those in need.) Merely paying tithes and offerings, and doing continual fundraisers, is not enough, and means that one is an unprofitable servant.
Got promoted by himself to Apostle, Joshua the High Priest, Elijah the Prophet, and That Prophet of Deuteronomy 18:18-19. Was very ambitious. Too ambitious. Now has his heart set on becoming the Messiah. After that, if he can become God the Father, he will have finally arrived.
Taught people to give generously while he lusted and coveted and stole everything in sight.
Dave made his followers feel special while using them up and then kicked them out destitute.
David Pack kept his cult compound in Wadsworth, Ohio looking beautiful on the outside while the people following him rapidly deteriorated mentally, financially, and spiritually.
David C. Pack ended up DECEIVING, ROBBING, BETRAYING, and DESTROYING many former Worldwide Church of God people who initially thought that he was going to help them to hold on to what HWA had taught them in the past.
Not The End.
Not over yet.
He already did that. Last year Passover he delivered a similar message, and nothing happened (of course not). And after a few weeks the Packster came up with a new date, and another one and another one. He kept doing that week after week after week, one message more urgent than the previous one. Holding the RCG members hostage, trembling and waiting. Some of them even quitting their jobs because of it.
You have no idea how frightened some of the RCG-members are. They’re like rabbits sitting in the middle of the road, staring at the headlights
Yes BB, it is a major let down. Every time.. And there’s only ONE reason Dave’s ‘little flock’ doesn’t give up: he keeps giving them HOPE after something like this.
It’s a psychological game perfected by the Packster. After this he’ll give a ‘normal’ sermon, maybe even two. Then he will start talking (during one of his lengthy bible studies) about ‘New Insights!’, and the next sermon or bible study after that will be about The Big Event Surely Happening Any Day!
It’s the ultimate form of torture: you give someone hope, you take that away from the person and when they don’t see a future anymore you give them hope again.
No surprise a lot of the RCG-members are suffering from depression and anxiety
There have been studies on false prophesies. Typically after they fail, members still stick with their church. 1975 was an exception with both the WCG and the Jehovah's Witnesses. The JWs were the hardest hit in loss of membership, since many gave all their wealth to the church just prior to 1975. Morally, the church should have returned their money, which it did not.
9:17 "Yes, you and Dave's other critics and enablers may, in fact, meet his same fate, so be careful."
None of us here fear the god that Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Bob Thiel or James Malm believes in. It's not real but a creation of narcissistic disturbed minds of these impotent little men.
None of us here fear the god that Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Bob Thiel or James Malm believes in.
I find no evidence that Dave Pack believes in any god other than himself.
As I stated in another comment about the Flurry's I think Dave Pack should just close up shop and call it a day. He is a pathetic loser who is under the wrath of God Almighty for his false prophecies and abuse of his followers.
Craig
For those that believed in the Armstrongism vanity twists added to the COG7 core doctrines that made up the WCG, the perfect time to leave the purported heir apparant, Dave's RCG, would have been around 2007-2008. Right after his first wife died. Since then Dave seems to have focused on becoming the next Gerald Flurry, whom he once derided as authoring "junk prophecy" and being a false Christ. A man who HWA and other students at Ambassador College never knew existed. Flurry's tiny cult success must have really gotten under Dave's skin. Too bad he used a bunch of innocent and gullible people to achieve his egotistical agenda.
9.17 AM
"I would hate to be them on judgement day."
According to James 3.1, teachers are judged more strictly. This principle is seen in the secular world where high school teachers who have sex with students are viewed as traitors, and given a harsher sentence.
This principle is seen in the secular world where high school teachers who have sex with students are viewed as traitors, and given a harsher sentence.
But what about Garner Ted?
What about Garner Ted? Do you know something that we don't know? Like whether he truly repented or not?
At least these cults aren't like Scientology and other cults which stalk and harass any who would dare to leave them, or speak out against them. I've always wondered why former Scientologists don't become avid fans of the Second Amendment. It may have something to do with the deep inner secrets learned through the exhaustive auditing process.
BB
Thanks for your help exposing this fraud. Here is Another DAVE PACK VIDEO OF DAVE EXPLAINING TO HIS MEMBERS WHAT THEY SHOULD DO!!
Please continue to expose this goof. Thx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGcbx5YfT_0
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