The last few weeks have not been good for self-appointed COG prophets. One failure after another has smacked them across their smug faces. Never has the face of prophethood in the Church of God been such a horrible mess. From Jesus standing up Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry's reinstallation of Donald Trump to the US presidency, to Alton Billingsley who prophesied that Hillary Clinton would defeat Trump and be set up as the first woman to rule over the United States right before the Holy Roman Empire destroyed the nation and took people into slavery.
Despite all these failures, these stinking piles of steaming bullshit continue on and get even more fervent in their predictions. Unless of course, you are Bob Thiel and your prophetic radar is broken making you are the king of the could-be's and may-be's. They all demand that we respect their prophecies and not mock them.
Gerald Flurry is particularly perturbed right now that people are not heeding him and his prophecies. In his latest Trumpet rag he has this up: Do You Believe All That the Prophets Have Spoken?.
What is a true Christian? One who follows Jesus Christ—as well as His true apostles, prophets and other leaders.
What utter bullshit! A Christian is a follower of Christ and of no man. Self-appointed apostles, prophets, and COG leaders come and go and leave trails of destruction in their wake. When has the COG had a true prophet in its midst over the last many years? COG leaders always have to have Christ plus something added.
After Christ was crucified and resurrected, He walked among a group of Jews without being recognized. They talked about how Christ was a mighty prophet in word and deed. They searched His tomb but found it empty. This disappointed them because they had hoped Christ would redeem and save Israel at that time. They didn’t understand the timing of God’s plan—that they had only witnessed Christ’s firstcoming, not His Second Coming.
Then Christ had something very important to tell them: “Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken” (Luke 24:25). Do you believe all that the prophets have spoken? All of it? To follow Christ, we must do this. He doesn’t want followers who relegate prophecy to mere history or who disregard the Old Testament. Christ rebuked these Jews severely!
I can state for a fact to follow Christ one does NOT have to believe any COG prophet or anything they speak. It is not a requirement for salvation.
As Flurry continues on the bullshit gets deeper and deeper:
God wants to lead us. Magnificent glory is available to us—if we’re willing to do what the prophets say. Heed the prophets, because God sent them to teach us what we need to know to enter His Kingdom, which is also His Family.
God has NOT sent Bob Thiel, Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Alton Billingsley, or Ron Weinland to us. They have absolutely NOTHING to teach us that is worthwhile or necessary for salvation and entrance into some phantasmagoric hell hole of a kingdom these guys want to set up according to their wishes.
“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself” (verse 27). These Jews didn’t know the Bible passages about Christ’s first coming. Christ was telling them they had been lazy in their Bible study!
COG members are lazy in their Bible Study of they actually believe these professional bullshitters. No one in their right mind who has even a superficial understanding of the bible would EVER join up with these guys.
Flurry goes on to speculate that Jesus always looked back at the prophets of the Old Testament because the New Testament did not exist yet. And we should do so today. We need to do that because today 90% of all prophecy is being fulfilled and we need to follow today's prophets.
“And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days” (Genesis 49:1). In the last days! Ninety percent of all Bible prophecy is being fulfilled in this end time. “… At the end it shall speak …” (Habakkuk 2:3). Sometimes, prophecy is dual, meaning Bible history will repeat itself. We need to know prophecy!
Flurry believes that he and his church and his prophethood are prophecies in the Bible for the end times. Rising out of the ruins of the mother church and into the mess he has created.
God the Father is perfect. Jesus Christ is perfect. The Bible is Jesus Christ in print. Remember this when you study the Bible. Imperfect translators made some mistakes, but this doesn’t nullify the messages of any of the biblical books.
“And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up” (Acts 15:13-16). This is another example of the New Testament quoting the Old Testament. Here, Amos 9:11 is referenced.
“In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old” (Amos 9:11). God’s Church fell several decades ago. Someone had to raise it back up before Christ’s return. This is all about the throne of David. Where is that throne today? Christ will sit on it when He returns, so it has to be somewhere on Earth already! Study my free book The New Throne of David to learn more.
Imagine a god being so impotent and weak that it was unable to keep a church alive for its people and needed Flurry to come along and restore it. How pathetic is that god? And, what kind of a god needs a special rock to come back and sit upon when it supposedly is already King of all that is? It certainly does not need a rock in Edmond Oklahoma to come back to or a sad storefront in Grover Beach, CA, or a campus in Wadsworth, Ohio.
Flurry ends with this:
God wants us to live by every word of all these prophets. This will fill our lives with glory, wonder, majesty and royalty! God’s Word is about to flood the Earth (Isaiah 11:9), but we can soak it up right now!This world is suffering for not paying attention to the prophets of God. Soon, God will raise the ruins of the world just like He has in His Church.
If you ignore the prophets of old you are sure to ignore the prophets of today in the church. Seriously? What crap! Besides, a follower of Jesus does NOT need a physical "church" to cling to for salvation.
We’re right at the edge of Christ’s Second Coming, when all will choose the right tree that Moses prophesied about. Christ will fill the Earth with wonders that will set our imaginations on fire!
No one needs either of the two trees of Moses or Herbert Armstrong's two trees for that matter. Christians know that Jesus made those trees obsolete and unnecessary. COG leaders and false prophets always have us looking backward at something outdated and unnecessary and establish all kinds of obstacles in our paths.
23 comments:
Gerald says in the referenced article: "This comes from Habakkuk 1:5, which talks about a double wonder. God fills our lives with wonder when we believe Him! He speaks through a man [GF ??] in this end time." I'm WONDERing: is GF double minded? Because Hab 1:5 doesn't speak of a double wonder but GF thinks many prophecies are double, that is, dual. Where's the Biblical statement prophecies are dual (It's not Isaiah 41:22) ??
Flurry said : " What is a true Christian? One who follows Jesus Christ—as well as His true apostles, prophets and other leaders"
That "as well as..." gives a bit too much leeway to the "one who follows Jesus" part.
"...as well as __________________" fill in the blank with those of your choice especially if it is yourelf.
When a person is young and immature, there's merit in imitating the good habits of typically older people. But since most ACOG members are now old, what merit is there in following apostles and other leaders? After all, these leaders are not more mature than their members. Eg, Dave Pack. I rest my case.
“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself” (verse 27). These Jews didn’t know the Bible passages about Christ’s first coming. Christ was telling them they had been lazy in their Bible study!"
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In my view and that of others, there is actually NO OT prophecy about any Jesus as a dying Messiah way into the future. The scriptures used in the NT are often tweeked a bit to make OT prophecies for their times all about the Jesus of the future. Commonly known as making the scriptures mean what they never meant to mean. I spare us.
Also, the "concerning himself" part is troubling. How can we know that Gospel Jesus was not doing exactly what Gerald Flurry and Dave Pack do to this day by seeing themselves spoken of in the scriptures? We can't. Is it such a surprise that the Jesus of his day was rejected for the most part? Those are things schizophrenics and those with personality disorders might say. We scorn it today. Why not then too?
Off topic, but did Gerald Flurry ever remarry?
Apparently some people seem to want or need spiritual "interlopers" to be between them and God. Someone they can see, touch and hear. Unfortunately, they will always end up disillusioned with this arrangement.
“Why do crackpot COG prophets expect us to believe their every word?”
Because they’re narcissists that look down on the lay members.
Dennis, you hit on one o the things I did not understand when I was a true believer.
If he did all the miracles described in the bible, why were there not a huge number of believers?
I am going through the course on how Jesus became God, an the explanation which makes sense to me is that the divinity and miracles were added over time.
Jesus is not the only man who was given divinity by his followers - Christianity is the one that survived.
COG ministers are fond of talking about the laws in the OT, but they barely mention the God commanded genocide.
Dennis
Your comment of there being no mention of jesus in the OT was addressed in a post last year. I watched the video link of a rabbi explaining this. He claimed the only by putting on the "Jesus glasses" can one see Christ in the OT. There is some merit to this point of view as some of these scriptures are not clear, and are ambiguous. But he left out the scriptures that are not. Christs true identity had to be hidden, otherwise he would not have been killed. So the vagueness in the OT is by design.
TLA, to me one of the conclusive disproofs of the New Testament is the account of the 500 people in Jerusalem who were raised from the grave at Jesus' resurrection. Even in a big city like Jerusalem, the revival of hundreds of dead people would be noticed outside the confines of a tiny new religious movement. Considering that a few non-Christian historical sources mention the death of ONE Christian, Jesus, surely the VISIBLE RESURRECTION of 500 Christians would be mentioned SOMEWHERE other than in the Gospel of Matthew. Residents of Jerusalem would notice that their neighbor or fellow worker who had been buried was up and alive again. There would have surely been disputes about inheritances, after a dead man's children had divided the dead man's estate only to find him alive again and needing it for himself. This isn't an event that would go unnoticed by non-Christians, yet unlike Christ's crucifixion we read NOTHING about it in any source other than Matthew. That is simply not believable.
Anon Feb. 14 at 10:26 AM describes the allegation that 500 people in Jerusalem were resurrected at the same time the alleged resurrection of Jesus occurred. He or she concludes, "That is simply not believable."
For goodness' sake, 10:26, don't you remember that the absence of evidence is what establishes the truth of a proposition? Faith! "The substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"!
The less evidence there is for a proposition, the truer it is. That's how we know the story of the Flood is true: no authenticated remnants of the Ark have ever been found. It's what validates the story about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah: the area is uncontaminated by chemicals leached from Lot's wife's salty posthumous avatar. And we know that Jesus trod the earth and was crucified because his tomb is empty.
How long will it take for scoffers to understand and accept this principle?
Retired Prof, at least there are multiple worldwide accounts of a devastating flood. Of course, those reports disprove one vital detail of the Noah story, as even if there was a worldwide flood there were survivors all around the globe.
However, you are right. I must repent and must accept the chastisement of the Flying Spaghetti Monster's noodly appendages, as the fact that I have never seen Him is the surest proof that He exists. Thank you for the correction!
10.26 AM
I've never the number 500 given before. Where does this number come from?
And, I don't believe these saints stayed around long, so I suppose the initial impact might be explained away.
Dennis wrote "Commonly known as making the scriptures mean what they never meant to mean."
Dennis, always the curmudgeon. This is "commonly known" within a certain category of critics. It is true that the NT authors cited and used OT scriptures innovatively (Christotelicly). An examination of this hermeneutic would be informative for Biblical literalists, a class heavily populated with fundamentalists and atheists.
See https://peteenns.com/episode-117-reading-the-old-testament-christotelicly/
And what is troubling about the "concerning himself" phrase is the way you have unpacked it. You have taken a tiny aperture view on this. You have selected one unlikely branch of Lewis' Trilemma. A larger context view would lead to a substantially different conclusion.
Even Bart Ehrman in an NPR interview stated that Jesus had it essentially right. Ehrman had a problem not with the ethical teaching of Jesus but with his historicity. I do not see a tenable parallel between Christ and modern apocalyptic Millerites.
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@7:50
no one has posted any update on the supposed marriage November last year. that, after Flurry's "orgy" comment at the Feast. must've realized what he was missing so he went and planned the marriage with the woman he was counselling.
anybody with an update on this?
Why do they expect us to believe their every word?
Because that's something that all cults teach. They (mis)program their members like trained seals to be "obedience monsters." This label is not mine. I think I read it in an article about the Nazis. When I attended services, at least every fourth "message" was on government. HWA didn't keep writing that "government is everything" for no good reason. That 'government is everything' is like the Pharisees claiming that the Sabbath is everything. Christ did not agree.
These ACOGs are The Trained Seals Churches of God.
They got married. There is a new queen 🤣 ( I was pretty shocked at his orgy comment too! What a weird, stupid thing to say)
Flurry isn't known to be the brightest bulb in the box and that is why he says stupid things.
After just finishing Ehrman's book, Did Jesus Exist?, He didn't have an issue with Jesus' historicity but the supernatural miracles that are claimed in the gospels. Reviewing the source texts he provides, it's tough to make a solid case many of these miracles ever happened. Jesus definitely existed in the place and time it was claimed. Interestingly, Jesus was placed in proper light as a Jewish Apocalyptic Teacher, actually quite similar to what the Milerites taught.
10:26 Where in the world is this passage you claim is in Matthew that 500 people rose from the dead at the same time Jesus was raised?
From "Cults in our midst" by Margaret Singer page 268:
"Authority figures.
We are told when we are young, and all though school, that there are answers and authorities. We are supposed to listen to the answers and look up to the people who "know better."
So, when you are told to not question your cult, your rationale for doing what you are told is that doing otherwise would be disrespectful to the leader, who knows all. The leader knows better. The leader has the all-powerful answer. Your questions and doubts are discouraged.
To reinforce this rationale for obedience, each group usually has some kind of punishment pattern for violators. In particular, when you question, you may be made to look ridiculous and called a renegade, a spy, an agent, a non believer, or Satan or what ever disparaging terms are used by in your particular group. In some way, you are made to feel bad for doubting or questioning. You're convinced by the closed logic of the cult and by peer pressure that to question means that you don't believe enough. So you stop questioning."
Gerald Flurry is most likely POSESSED by a demon!!
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