The Bible contains many failed propehcies. In the Old Testament and used as proof of basically nothing correct, the WCG appealed to the Prophecy about Tyre to prove its validity. The prophecy about Tyre failed spectacularly to this day.
The Book of Revelation is a failed prophecy. Apologetics will insist it was for both then and now again but this is simply not true. Letting go of failed prophecy is not something the true believer does easily or at all.
The Apostle Paul, and others in the NT failed miserably in their understanding of the Second Coming in their time.
Paul ended up having to admit that prophecy, which he made many of in his "soon" and "shortly" preaching could and ultimately, did fail. I often wondered how many lives he somewhat ruined as they prepared by not marrying or "giving all", with his own prophetic wishful thinking.
"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will fail" ,Paul was, at least, able to admit
(From the United Church of God)
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Dave Pack can't "unveil" it, so he simply has to "explain" it
In our time, we have Fake Apostle and Notta-real-Minister, David C Pack, who is obcessed with predicting Christ's Second Coming, failing now again over his inarguable truth of it being, for sure, March 29th now past. This marks the 93rd false teaching on this topic for Dave in just the last two years.
Caught in his own prophectic loop, one wonders why does anyone listen to this charlatan anymore?
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"These failed prophecies are not just mistakes. The reveal something deeper about the nature of belief, human psychology and the power of expectation"
"When scientific claims fail, they are discarded. When religious prophecies fail they are often reinterpreted, delayed or ignored."
"Science is willing to be wrong and adjust. While religious belief often bends reality to fit its narrative"
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These 6 minutes explain the phenomenon of reworking failed prophecies so that one can pretend they did not fail....
...and why they stay.
42 comments:
93 "No Shows" for the Prophet in less than two years. Nice track record ....
Why aren't I surprised that Dennis is back, and by coincidence (cough, cough) just before Passover. It's become a tradition on Banned for many apostates to surface like submarines just before the holy days and harass the spiritually active. Btw, when Paul talked about prophecies "failing," he was saying that they become inoperative once they are fulfilled.
Even flipping a coin results in a 50 % success rate. 0 for 93 is telling.
In lieu of the Bible's future predictions, Dennis offers man's current proposals of peace, safety, health, plenty, and fairness. The problem is, when I watch the nightly news, I don't see it!
Talk about failure l
I love it how COG beta males melt down every time Dennis disturbs their thought processes. How dare he think for himself!
Nuh uh. Didn't offer a thing and don't believe in "man's current proposals" as an alternative solution to anything. I also don't see it in current events as they unfold yet again like times before.
Maybe the prophet should try a new vocation, maybe selling used cars .....
Former British Prime Minister Margret Thatcher’s husband Dennis was once asked why he did not do interviews. He commented most think he is thick, so why open one’s mouth and remove all doubt. Very funny and telling also. Sometimes silence is the best policy. But alas YT and social media is awash with the ‘stuff’. A failed prediction or two is enough to sink any aspiring prophet. What is predictable is that prediction addiction is here to stay for better or worse. There is some real looney material out there. And if we thought Armstrongism was bad …………
I recall some of the comments written by the late John Trechak regarding prophecy. These were written in the aftemath of the failure of 1995. He opined that events which HWA had forecast might actually yet take place in the future, but having causes and focal points which were completely separate and distinct from HWA's interpretations of Revelation and Daniel. What would HWA's followers make of these events in such a case?
HWA forecast trade wars (Trump's tariffs were announced today), a resurgence of diseases, and new super bugs (Bobby Kennedy Jr.?), race wars (denial of minority peoples' historic contributions, tightening of voter rights, abolishment of DEI and outlawing of CRT), cataclysmic changes to weather patterns and the sun becoming hotter (climate change denial and resurgence of fosil fuels and the production of greenhouse gases), our allies turning against us (tariffs and our nonsupport of historic treaties and alliances), breakdown of national unity (throwing primary issues back to the states as opposed to the federal government insuring uniform national policy), ultimately followed by national collapse and enslavement.
The headlines of today sound amazingly similar to the HWA prophecy mold, except that Germany and the Catholic Church have nothing to do with them. We're doing this to ourselves. This is the only futuristic comment that I recall John Trechak ever having made. Turns out he was the most accurate prophet to ever have come from the Armstrong movement.
June 17, 1930 marked the passage of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, exacerbator and prolonger of the Great Depression. But, I guess people might tend to forget even the most graphic of lessons over the passage of 95 years.
BB
If the "spiritually active" are reading this blog that actively, that says a lot more about them than it does about your "apostates".
''...for many apostates..''
this term is often used by those organizations who like to think they are the one true church. I've noticed in many tracts and comments I've read at other sites that it is often used by the Jehovah Witnesses as well. Anyone who thinks differently to these alleged one true churches gets described in this manner.
Whether it be the parent church or the various offshoots it's been well known now for many years that Herberts claims to be the one true church by reason of sabbath and holydays is just propaganda. Effective propaganda mind you as he convinced many - but if your going to make it a lie tell a really big one and oddly people can believe.
The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him to show His servants..... is failed according to the writers of this blog.
For social status and self perception routed in spiritual arrogance do you look with disdain on Revelation.
You guess wrong, grave warning from respected economic papers to even social media give grave warnings on the world's economy. Trading on the world ecomony crashing has increased by 40% in recent months. Mark Carney being re-branded as a Prime Minister is significant.
Amongst the everyday talk of people there is open talk of could Trump be deliberately trying to crash the economy.
Herbert Armstrong had the non desired advantage of living through and surviving the Great Depression, WW1, the Spanish flu epidemic, WW2 which from Prince to pauper left an concern and awareness it could happen again.
Yes BB,
I was just listening to a Sermon by Frank Schnee from some 40 years ago.
I found it fear mongering, annoying, boring and at times plain wrong..........and then after an hour or so it turns into something as if the headlines were written just hours ago or even this morning.....EXACTLY right.......
nck
6.24, the spiritually active know that all churches are morally compromised, so they read sources outside of their church. Pieces of truth are wherever you find them, even sometimes on Banned.
"...of things shortly to come to pass"
Of course not. I look at the actual historical context and well understood view by biblical scholars on the time, circumstances and politics of the Book of Revelation just prior to the Fall of Jerusalem.
"...of things which must shortly come to pass" "Shortly" means "Shortly" in all contexts.
Correction of typographical error: The second sentence should read: "These were written in the aftermath of the failure of 1975."
Further down, fosil should be fossil. Apologies. Long day yesterday.
BB
Dennis wrote, “The Apostle Paul, and others in the NT failed miserably in their understanding of the Second Coming in their time.”
, NRSV)”
This is not quite the case. What the early church believed about the timing of the Parousia did not happen. That is indisputable. The question is whether they were thoroughly committed to that sequence of events. I think not. The way that events played out was no doubt a surprise but calling it a “miserable failure” is melodramatic.
Peter gave the Ekklesia a big fat hint about the Parousia when he said to Jews while he and John were on Solomon’s Portico at the Temple:
“Repent therefore, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah appointed for you, that is, Jesus, who must remain in heaven until the time of universal restoration (apokatastasis) that God announced long ago through his holy prophets. (Acts 3:19-21
This statement was carefully recorded by Luke and retained by the church in the canon. This made the timing of the Parousia contingent on the repentance of the Jews. And who knows when that condition would be met. The timing of the Parousia was not really cast in concrete.
Even the 1972 date in the WCG was not given without reservation. I sat in a congregation in the Midwest in about 1968 and heard the minister give a detailed sermon that resulted in the WCG fleeing in January of 1972 at the beginning of the Tribulation. But after the minister finished and we in the audience were all amazed, he attached the caveat that this was thought to be the outplaying of events but we are not sure. I was on the Big Sandy campus in January of 1972 and it was business as usual as the date approached. I don’t think anyone really thought the prophesied events were going to happen. I think people thought it was a “long shot.” And I think the long shot attitude is the reason why Failed Prophecy Arguments against Armstrongism seldom get any traction.
Scout
Dennis 523 says, "shortly" means "shortly" in all contexts.
), and a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years like a day (2 Peter 3:8
), "shortly" could means whatever He chooses.
Wouldn't that depend on the perspective of the one making a statement? What is "shortly" for me might be different for you.
For a Being where a human lifespan is like a vapour that appears for a little time (James 4:14
I hope that's not your best argument!
A day to God is a thousand years to humans.
I would hope that is not yours. Context counts
BB writes:
“cataclysmic changes to weather patterns and the sun becoming hotter (climate change denial and resurgence of fosil fuels and the production of greenhouse gases):.
Leaving aside the fact that climate has always changed since there has been climate, not all would agree with this assessment.
Tony Heller at Real Climate Science in August 2022 noted this:
1.) Death rates from all types of natural disasters are down 95% over the last century.
2.) Life expectancy around the world has doubled over the past century.
3.) Extreme poverty around the world has plummeted over the last century.
4.) Malnutrition around the world has sharply declined over the past 30 years.
5.) Fall and winter Northern Hemisphere Snow cover is increasing
6.) Northern Hemisphere snow cover is at a record high for the date.
7.) The amount of Northern Hemisphere snow has increased to near-record highs.
8.) Tide gauge sea level rise rates around the globe have been rising at a fairly steady rate for over the last century, and not accelerating.
9.) NASA satellite data show the earth has become significantly greener over the past four decades, because of CO2.
10.) The greatest expansion of life on earth occurred when atmospheric CO2 levels were 15 times higher than they are now. There is no indication there was a runaway greenhouse effect then and there are no scientific data showing that that is about to occur now or anytime in the near future.
11.) There is no indication there was ocean acidification when CO2 levels were higher (only that life was brimming).
12.) Global major hurricane frequency has declined over the past 3 decades.
13.) Global tropical cyclone accumulated energy has declined over the past three decades.
14.) Tropical storms have not increased, and hurricanes have decreased over the past three decades.
15.) Strong-to-violent tornadoes in the U.S. have sharply declined in frequency over the past half-century
16.) Tornado deaths are down over the last century by a factor of more than 10
17.) Arctic sea ice extent is about the same as it was in 2006, despite the many predictions of an ice-free Arctic by now .
18.) Forest fire burn acreage in the U.S. is down 80% over the last 90 years.
19.) The frequency of hot days in the U.S. is sharply down since the 1930s (NOAA).
20.) Eight of 25 deadliest Atlantic hurricanes occurred around the time of American Revolution, including the deadliest one in 1780, which killed more than 20,000 people.
21.) Three of the five deadliest floods occurred in China during the 1930s, including one which killed hundreds of thousands of people.
This doesn’t mean that climate disaster won’t increase, but it will be due to nature not man burning fossil fuels - the foundation to our prosperity and live-styles.
There is one benefit to net zero/nut zero in that these policies are devastating the German economy and this will lead to a populous revolt leading to a modern-day Holy Roman Empire.
🦆 So easy to do a background check or search on Tony Heller. But, I'll leave that up to individual readers, so it's your own research and not just Bob telling you something.
You list him as your source, but who or what are his sources? If your information is real, it will become self-evident. One would have no need to self-label as "real".
By the way, 6:28, did you mean "populist" revolt?
BB
Paul said that prophecies will "fail." We know what it says, but what does it mean? In the CONTEXT he is speaking of other things coming to an end, but Love never ends. Might Paul mean that unlike revealed knowledge, prophecies, tongues, etc. which will come to an end in the sense that the revelation or gift, love will never come to an end or cease? In other words, "fail" doesn't mean that prophecies are incorrect, but that the revelation of them will come to an end.
Regarding the "failure" of the prophecies regarding Tyre: Does the prophecy of Ezekiel 26:14
mean there would never be anything built on the island? Or, does it mean that it will never regain the status held in the days of Ezekial? Tyre would never again be a commercial superpower, a world trader, or a colonizer. It's one thing to understand what a passage says, another to how it was understood at the time.
I probably believe in the context that was the meaning of "fail" . However both feelings of the day about the soon and shortly were mistaken and Revelation did literally fail in the context and for the time it was penned
Mt 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee,
Whether one is a prophet or a whistleblower when one goes against the system there is a cost.
BB writes:
“So easy to do a background check or search on Tony Heller.”
Imagine if you were in Jerusalem in the time of Christ and one went to an expert in the law to get a ‘background check’ on the fringe so-called prophet from Galilee — Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? — one would not likely get a positive review.
One thing that I learnt in the WCG is not to rely on the presentation of the opposite view by the one presenting the opposite case.
I now go to the source to check things out. If I am wrong I prefer to be wrong from making my own decisions.
BB writes:
“By the way, 6:28, did you mean "populist" revolt?”
I would like to say the mistake was similar to “Further down, fosil should be fossil” but it is more than in that in that I have slight intellectual disability, or at least how I describe it, which one may pick if one engaged in a conversation with me; but it effects more than speech. It is frustrating but that’s life.
BB writes:
“The headlines of today sound amazingly similar to the HWA prophecy mold, except that Germany and the Catholic Church have nothing to do with them...
“June 17, 1930 marked the passage of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, exacerbator and prolonger of the Great Depression.”
It was the sovereign debt default of 1931 that turned a depression into a Great Depression; which began in Europe with problems with the Austrian Creditanstalt.
In January 1933 Hitler came to power; and in February Hitler instructed to Werner von Fritsch, the February appointed Commander in Chief of the German Army 'to create an army of the greatest possible strength'.
But a more momentous event was to occur one year later when the Radio Church of God first aired on radio with a broadcast which eventually became known as “The World Tomorrow” and the mimeograph started pumping out “The Plain Truth” publication.
Another Sabbatarian work to arise after a period of trouble to proclaim the gospel — one voice among Christian proclamations with a similar message?
Ronald Dart used to warn in the early 2000's that the entire Church of God movement that people have known, the Tabernacles sites, the HQ sites, the paid ministry, the entire lifestyle would not be able to survive if there was a failure of capitalism. Another World war, a Great depression he said everything we'd known would not be able to withstand. He warned the enture COG church lifestyle is based on relatively 'good times' and the COG culture had not known bad times.
Ronald Dart used to warn in the early 2000's that the entire Church of God movement that people have known, the Tabernacles sites, the HQ sites, the paid ministry, the entire lifestyle would not be able to survive if there was a failure of capitalism. Another World war, a Great depression he said everything we'd known would not be able to withstand. He warned the enture COG church lifestyle is based on relatively 'good times' and the COG culture had not known bad times.
There will be losers of the current trade war, and those losers may very well be forced into sovereign debt default. The USA as the world's greatest economy, has the power, via its policies, to set off recessions or even depressions in other nations. Most nations around the globe are already in precarious situations of massive national debt due in part to imbalances caused by measures combatting the Covid pandemic.
It runs deeper than that. It is not only our governments which are in debt, but also consumers, largely due to Covid era inflation, and the price of gasoline. Many have been living off their credit cards or, if fortunate, have pulled the equity from their houses, just to survive. It is incredibly stupid to introduce tariffs into the prices of all the goods we commonly need in order to conduct our daily lives at a time when so many desperately need relief.
BB
Dartsie taught it right, 2:42! The ultra liberal and the ultra conservative segments are both parasites which feed upon and are facillitated by the stability of the mainstream, the greater and more balanced ecosystem in which they exist. Anarchy is another philosophy which could not exist without the protections and juxtapositions possible with a greater, more centrist and regulated Mother Ship.
Armstrongism and other cults were not the shark. They were the remoras. They may have been sharklike for those of us who were entrapped by them, but they were permitted to exist and protected by a Constitution and Bill of Rights which guarantees freedom of religion and freedom from religion as basic and immutable human rights.
BB
Understanding prophecy doesn't equate to eternal salvation.
Agreed! But presumptuously making false ones, and using them to manipulate other people is a sure way to miss out on it!
BB
"the entire lifestyle would not be able to survive if there was a failure of capitalism."
Yes.....thats why the ACOG started in 1933 in the Middle of the Great Depression from a T Ford driving evangelidt in the poorest of - Willamette Valleys....nutter....
Nck
The lifestyle in 1933 did not include hotels booked for WFW and activities, Worldwide high standard Feast site venues, international travel, paid ministry corporations with retirement funds and health care, travel expenses with no end, church corporation credit cards, never ending ministry training events, new builds, reconstruction builds, severance pay, retirement packages...the list could go on and on.
In 1933 or thereabouts Herbert Armstrongs Feast of Tabernacles observance consisted of his congregation staying at home and travelling into church everyday for tabernacle services.
What total nonsense.
Tbe 1933 Feast was at one of the most beautiful places on earth...... Not far from where the elites of the elites still gather for one of the most secretive gatherings on earth.... (before they burm the Baal Owl of Wisdom.)
Members were strongly emcouraged to all come...
Nck
Evidence ?
There was a church split in July 1933. Accepting even Herbert's concept of observing the Feast of Tabernacles had been openly laughed at by some in the Oregon congregation.
From 1927 until 1933 Herbert only listed himself and his wife as observing Tabernacles.
In 1934 after the July 1933 split Armstrong had listed 21 people observing Tabernacles.
Oh yes, you're right.
I was talking about the 150 people in 1945 after HWA developed the thought that the Feast reflected the Millenium.
Belknap Springs and Zeigler a mere 10 hour drive from Bohemian Grove.
Nck
Not what you wrote at 12:44.
That is right. I mixed up 1945 and 1933. 1945 being the year of development of the "Feast-Millenium" connection. HWA often said that he "kept the commandments before understanding why"
Nck
Wow, 11:05! The early '30s must have been HWA's Bob Thiel days!
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