Why do Church of God leaders have to continually stick their noses into what church members do? They have no excuse for doing so, and that is why they have to constantly trot out submission to church government. Keep the members cowering in fear of losing their salvation, and church leaders and church councils can decree all kinds of idiotic nonsense like the use of beef tallow and British Israelism.
Unfortunately, this topic probably came up because some church member who had no discernment skills felt they had to ask a minister if they could use it. Church members are not encouraged to use their own wisdom and discernment in making decisions on their own. Sadly, this has been ingrained in COG culture for decades.
Now, we have those fun boys in Cincinnati, who recently unceremoniously kicked Rick Shabi to the curb, feeling they have to weigh in on various topics that most members couldn't care less about.
Empowering members to think for themselves is a dangerous predicament for church leaders.
Doctrine Committee (DC)—Mario Seiglie
Mr. Seiglie presented the following items that have been assigned to DC and their status:
- DC has completed a question-and-answer topic on the use of beef tallow. This subject was researched, sent to the COE for edits or comments, and then sent to the Media and Communications Department to be used as a PCD letter.
- The Prophecy Advisory Committee (PAC) has completed its research on the topic of carrying guns at work and having leadership responsibilities at Church services, such as leading songs and speaking. The DC is now reviewing this.
- New Project: A study paper on the “Eighth Day/Last Great Day.” The paper will be presented for discussion during these May meetings.
- The PAC is reviewing a new project concerning the United States and Great Britain in Bible prophecy.
- DC is discussing questions that were submitted by MMS concerning the timing of the Night To Be Much Observed meal.
Mr. Seiglie then opened the floor for any comments or questions.
Members of the DC: Jorge de Campos, John Elliott, Mario Seiglie (chair) and Rex Sexton.
45 comments:
They have to have these ridiculous things to investigate soas to fill their time and justify their existence. Who has ever even heard of beef tallow?
I remember WCG ministers from the forever tarnished "Golden Age" laughing at the government for giving scientists grants to study the sex lives of gnats. How is this different?
1. Can use beef tallow. Just don't eat it.
2. Interesting combination of guns, leadership at church, with Prophecy AC?
3. LGD is Tishri 21, the last day of the feast. The 8th day is a sabbath.
4. Endless genealogies and tribes were scattered 2000 yrs ago-scrap the book.
5. NTBMO meal can be eaten at high noon, not commanded to eat at night.
To ‘Tallow’ or not tooooooo ‘Tallow’ zat is da question.
I’ll be chewing the fat over this one. Kosher fat of course.
We need first to determine who is a ‘true Christian’ before we can pass a judgment on the said issue.
That may take a ministerial conference in Jerusalem. Just hope the Houthis don’t decide to fire a few scuds during time of conference into Israel.
Some may have another opinion on that lol.
More rebellion from ministers in UCG who rat to this blog because they don’t like how the church is run. This is information I have never seen.
Beef Tallow? Never heard of it, nor even seen it packaged in a jar. I assume it's sourced from 'beef fat' and usually disposed of after cooking beef by the vast majority of people. Will there be a paper on goose fat next ?
I'm far more interested in the paper on the timing of NTBMO as i remember being shocked when i first heard of the bizarre midnight times a few UCG members have eaten their meal on NTBMO.
Isn’t beef tallow in essence beef fat? So I’d say don’t use it in cooking food or eat it as it’s prohibited in the Bible to eat the fat of cows, lamb, goats. Chicken fat and fish fat is nowhere prohibited in my understanding.
And further to 9:06’s comment I’d suggest re:
2) Guns should be allowed.
3) 8th day/LGD is doesn’t bother me if LGD is the 7th or 8th day. It’s not a salvation issue.
4) The British throne isn’t the Davidic throne so definitely scrap that idea once and for all! And again who are the lost 12 tribes of Israel doesn’t matter as it is the Church that is the Israel of God now and if more importance.
5) NTBMO is the Passover meal not some dinner held the next night (of the 15th).
In a World of terrible injustice and suffering when you see children, babies and toddlers in Gaza suffering, starving and dying before the Worlds media camera's, maybe even this blog is as much out of touch as the COG leaders and organisations, this blog claims to hold to account.
Nevermind beef tallow, overdosing on ones own hubris seems the order of the day.
Maybe the ACOgs need their own version of DOGE to cone in and review their expenditures and salaries. I am sure there would be some eye opening revelations. I reme
Beef tallow or seed oils?
NTBMR when? At home or a restaurant?
Cokes or beer?
Can I have a gun?
Can I buy a black car?
Concerning the sabbath, can I go swimming? Watch the news? Have sexual relations?
Can I buy food for my hungry children with 3rd tithe?
Can I, can I, can I??
Do we really need doctrinal statements on these things?
Can I get an Amen?
carrying guns at work and having leadership responsibilities at Church services
Yes, leaders carrying guns at Church services could have saved several lives when Terry Ratzmann opened fire on brethren an LCG service 20 years ago.
I confess there are times I have eaten fat. And, at those times I have not taken the blood of the bull and seven times sprinkled it at the temple or put any on the horns of the altar. I am guilty of all!
Some of the commenters here must not be following Trump 2.0.
HHS Secretary Kennedy has endorsed beef tallow for cooking, especially in french fries.
Steak N Shake switched to it recently. McDonald's used it for years, then shifted to vegetable oils (which many other restaurants use). Now RFK wants Macca's to go back (-a).
That's probably why UCG is reviewing it. But the Bible seems clear against consuming animal fat (Lev. 3:17).
It's from the minutes of the May Council of Elders meetings. Is the secretary a "rat"?
I have. Used to be what fast food french fries were fried in. In the mid to late 80s, the US government's emphasis on heart health led to many outlets switching to vegetable oil instead - which many consumers did not like due to the change in taste. It didn't get to the level of "New Coke vs Old Coke", but it was a thing.
It was taken up in our local congregation circa 1988 (tallow being fat), but I do not remember the ministurd at the time having much of an opinion about it - IIRC he pointed out that technically fats were used in cooking lots of restaurant food and it was more a matter of conscience.
1. Beef tallow: Obviously there is a bit of fat (and blood, for that matter) in any meat. There’s a difference between wholesale eating fat versus using it for a cooking substance, and that different should be considered.
2. Guns: I do not know exactly the scope of their examination, considering the reference to carrying specifically at work, but here is the biblical answer to the issue of bearing arms in general:
A. Ex 22:2-3a — Lethal home, and thus personal, defense is upheld by divine judgment.
B. Deut 20 — Community defense participation is expressly permitted, perhaps even required, if called upon.
C. Duet 4:-12; 12:32-ch13; 30:1-10 — No “legislation” subsequent to Moses can nullify any aspect of Torah, or else that subsequent statement is invalid.
D. John 18:36 — Jesus denied that his kingship holds a civil status (at this time), thus there is no contradiction or conflict between adherence to him and fulfillment of one’s civic duty (Gen 9:5-6; cf John 17:15; Rom 13:1-4).
E. Armstrong prohibited such things in order to hold control over members. For members to have divine authority or prerogative not subject to him might give them the idea that other things were not subject to him.
Is that an ice-cream cone or a clown cone?
Interesting comment. Is this an all American blog ?
We eat fat every time we eat meat. This is such a stupid issue. Maybe they are focusing on the meat around the organs, but that was only an issue during the sacrifice. We can eat fat. In fact, it is good for us...brains, hormones, energy. Don't overdo, but tallow is so much healthier than seed oils.
My mom kind of taught her sons to cook, based on the fact that there might be times in our lives when we were single, and she wanted us to eat well. I do a primitive job of this, and do eat well. I just don't know how you eat any meat without there being some fat content. When I do steaks or chicken, I cut off the majority of the fat prior to cooking. There's still a remnant. On ground beef I usually purchase the lowest fat content available in the market (usually 93 lean, 7 fat). And then as I cook the meat for, let's say spaghetti, when it's about done, I will turn the pan so the liquids drain to one side, soak them up with my Viva Signature Cloth paper toweling, throw that in the garbage, and then pour my Ragu spaghetti sauce on to the meat in the pan, and let the sauce and meat simmer until the spaghetti is al dente. and ready for the sauce. If I'm baking a meat loaf, there is still fat/juice to drain, but the breading soaks up some of it. Now, mind you, I don't do this because of the Bible. I was raised in the North, and just don't happen to like grease!
I know what the gourmet chefs say. You want a steak to be well marbled with small runners of fat so it's tender. That's also why the radical vegans think meat is bad! The stuff clogs up your veins, arteries, and (ahem!) your heart. Or as the late Frank Zappa used to say "rots your brain, rots your kidneys, rots your heart, cucaracha!"
I think all any of us can do is to do our best to minimize our intake of animal fat. In the most arcane Armstrongite parlance, treat it like leaven. You know you can never totally get rid of it, but youse gots ta try! Now that I know it's a thing, my vote is against beef tallow! No real need for a council of elders to study it!
Some of us Indians in church actually have had this question of interest about tallow over the years. There aren't very many of us Indians in the church over the years. I guess it's because we give the white police the chance forlive target practice. Anyway we North American Indians make our pemmican for travelling and one ingredient is tallow. Tallow is not just beef or buffalo or mutton fat. It is the fat of an edible animal like this that has been rendered down over hours at a low temperature and the impurities have been removed. It is healthier than something like Crisco which is heavily processed and hydrogenated oil. We used to use tallow when making soap when I lived in the far north.
Here is a general breakdown from wikipedia on beef tallow for our LCG'ers to chew the fat on.
Energy
3,774 kJ (902 kcal)
Carbohydrates
0 g
Fat
100 g
Saturated
42 g
Monounsaturated
50 g
Polyunsaturated
4 g
Protein
0 g
Other constituents
Quantity
Cholesterol
109 mg
Fat percentage can vary.
The fatty acid content of tallow is:
• Saturated fatty acids (43%):
• Palmitic acid (C16:0): 26%
• Stearic acid (C18:0): 14%
• Myristic acid (C14:0): 3%
• Monounsaturated fatty acids (50%):
• Oleic acid (C18-1, ω-9): 47%
• Palmitoleic acid (C16:1): 3%
• Polyunsaturated fatty acids (4%):
• Linoleic acid: 3%
• Linolenic acid: 1%
So there.
They post this stuff here to keep members of the church confused.
Many are now looking at the benefits of beef tallow and ghee over seed oils. Our local Costco sells large bottles of ghee for cooking.
The Passover meal
The Church is the body of Christ
This question is something Jewish people have already considered, as one can see on line that tallow derived from cows slaughtered in accordance with kosher laws can be kosher.
Subject to certain other requirements such as blood must be fully drained; only hard fat; and equipment must be used exclusively for kosher ingredients.
Like others commenting one is bemused a bureaucratic committee must be formed to decide so mundane a matter.
True. Armstrong let his Quaker background, CG7 history, and his drive for personal control over his followers drive him to get that matter completely wrong.
What do you propose the blog should cover then, given as you say all the suffering in Gaza? And elsewhere.
I bet you believe in Q, 10:45, don't you? Sheesh! Why does everything have to be about conspiracy theories these days??? Can't even have a nice, peaceful little dissident blog without someone thinking it's been secretly infiltrated by bad ministers!
The commenter dropped his own dunce cap!
Won't it be nice when we don't have to eat any more?
Majoring in the minors
Ah yes. I use ghee when making Jollof rice.
What? You are using ghee and you did not get permission from our LCG ministers? that'll get you at least a month suspension from church for that.
Yup, set up a committee of ministers to ensure nothing unclean is entering our bodies!!
Much appreciated! What about the shit in the covid vaccines that went into the bodies of people in the COGs and even at least one minister telling folks that the jab was a gift from GOD!!??? Let’s just do as they tell us - they know best.
Ghee is pagan. Hindus use it as part of their idol worship. But don't tell the ministers that Hindus also use milk in their idol worship.
The Gazmanians were not Armstrongites. So, of course we're not going to be covering them! Aren't they Canaanites?
Usually, the decisions that end best are those which are made based on the laws of probability. Those were very difficult to know during the Covid 19 era, because it was a different situation than we had ever seen during our lifetime. Consequently, people died regardless as to whether or not they took the vaccine.
What I find as being odd, is that a segment of the population who has made a god out of president Trump actually rejected his proudest accomplishment, and refused the vaccine which he worked so hard to expedite. The basic scientific principles behind this vaccine had been used for years successfully on other Covid viral infections. All that needed to be accomplished was final dialing in to make it specific to Covid 19. Of course there were going to be bad reactions and deaths resulting from it. There always are from medications. People with agendas are deliberately continuing to use lying statistics which greatly exaggerate the numbers of deaths due to the vaccine.
Just wait until the Chinese develop the next virus in response to the latest round of tariffs! People will be begging for a new vaccine! I never so much as take an aspirin. But I did take advantage of the covid vaccine, and have had no side effects whatever.
10:59
Well, it's great that you personally experienced no side effects—but that doesn’t mean others haven’t, or that longer-term effects won’t surface down the line.
As for your claim that “people with agendas are deliberately continuing to use lying statistics which greatly exaggerate the numbers of deaths due to the vaccine,” that cuts both ways. Throughout the pandemic, we also saw people with very different agendas suppress dissenting views, censor alternative opinions, and manipulate statistics to bolster the perceived efficacy and safety of the vaccine.
Blind trust in official narratives can be just as dangerous as blind skepticism. Critical thinking shouldn't be dismissed as conspiracy. Healthy debate, transparency, and honest science should never be treated as threats.
Yes, people do trust blindly. We've got several doctors in our family, some of whom work with a holistic approach. They tell me the truth even when it counters what their colleagues and big pharma put out. I had not intended on getting the vaccine and did not when my age group became eligible. Informed by my relatives, I also considered that I'd be able to kick my dreaded KN 95s, so gave in and got my shots. Now I have several boxes of 100 KN 95s for when the Chinese respond to this round of tariffs. I still carry hand sanitizer in my car, so no colds or flu this season.
Dude, without proper training and lots of practice, a minister with a gun might inflict damage upon the innocents. These situations require more than just a scary prop. Police and military are trained to create a close pattern in a small critical area. They don't just practice on targets, they spend hours on a tactical range.
BB
BB at 11:33
Give them training. I took training in the military, and took training when I got my carry permit. Honestly, I have called for mandatory firearms training in schools (with homeschool kids having to attend): gun safety, self-defense law, and rifle and pistol familiarity. It would be no 2A concern, because it would not be based on whether or not a person exercises that right, and Art 1, Sec 8, Cl 16 of the United States Constitution authorizes militia training (“militia” simply being the armed citizenry).
But frankly, even with just basic familiarity and capability, at least there’s a chance for an armed person to stop those shootings. Without one, there is none.
When seconds count, police are only minutes away.
Anon 309
I wish you a lot of luck with your fight against colds and the flu this season. But when it comes to covid and masks, I have good news. They are a non-factor! So said Mr. Science, Dr. Fauci.
When testifying before Congress, he admitted "science" had no bearing on the mask mandate. "It just seemed like a good idea at the time"! That was just one of his many blunders that cost the taxpayer. Like anon 610 said, blind trust in official narratives can, not only be dangerous, but expensive.
Consider this one aspect of what the covid narrative cost us. According to the GAO, 300 billion of covid money was stolen, 150 billion wasted, and billions we simply can't account for. Somebody got rich! If that isn't bad enough, the GAO also admits that the Federal government loses 233-521 billion annually to fraud. Bear in mind, these estimates are dependent on " reporting", which means they are probably lower than reality.
Another estimate concerning covid is, according to the CDC, 1.13 million have died from day one to now, and even then they admit the possibility that many of those deaths were from other causes but attributed to covid.
Now compare these alledged covid deaths with the annual estimate (under reported) that 700 thousand die every year in this country from medical errors, which doesn't include the opiode crisis or deaths from the vaccine, which we will probably never know. Difficult agendas DO suppress dissenting views!
So we have over a 5 year period, 3.5 million deaths (low) for medical screw ups, and 1.13 million deaths (high) attributed to covid! Yet, no one makes a fuss about that. That's a crime.
You are right. People DO trust blindly!
And yet, we still overpopulate the planet! I was hoping that Covid would resolve all the issues that are upon us as a result of too many people. But, alas! It all petered out!
I was alao hoping that Trump's deportation policies on illegal aliens would decrease the US population substantially, but it's hardly making a dent!
Overpopulation is a myth 4:37. Problem is overcrowding the already overcrowded cities instead of dispersing people all over; and instead of promoting big families of natural born citizens the government promotes uncontrolled migration of people from places that have no connection to our people, religion, history, values etc, so they come from countries with big centralized governments and want the same in their new countries.
That is a lot of it, 6:30 AM.
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