Hot off the presses: a former HWA-era minister in the Philippines has heroically reached out to Samuel himself to beg Samuel to bring his earth-shattering, continent-moving ministry to the islands. And because this gentleman is apparently still an Elder™ in the One True Remnant™, he has graciously granted Samuel Kitchen official permission to collect tithes and offerings from the brethren. Hallelujah! Break out those wallets and purses, kids! Dust off those checkbooks you haven’t touched since 1995! It’s time to make it rain for Jesus (terms and conditions apply, void where God has any sense). Praise the Lord and pass the offering plate!
And fear not, scattered little flock that can literally be counted on two hands with fingers left over—this minister will now provide official, factory-certified counseling. That’s right, never again will your life be plagued by the unbearable emptiness of having to think for yourself or decide what to believe. The Church is once again here to do all the heavy lifting upstairs.
Been there. Done that. Got the trauma.
We have some exciting news!The Work of God expands to Philippines!It is with GREAT JOY AND ENTHUSIASM that I am announcing this.An ordained pastor, Mr Jonathan Dicen, in the Philippines has reached out to me, and we have talked, wanting to revive and expand this work there in the Philippines as the Worldwide Church of God.His family was one of the founding members of the Worldwide Church of God under Mr Armstrong. He has faithfully endured and has held fast to God’s truth against many persecutions and trials.COUNSELING: If you would like to request counseling, all concerned messages will be directed Mr Dicen.Tithes and Offerings: As an elder in the Worldwide Church of God, he has authorized me(Samuel Kitchen) to receive God’s Tithes and Offerings. This is done in accordance with the Law of God, concerning tithes and offerings, and according to Malachi 3:6-12 Concerning the restoration of the Worldwide Church of God.This post will be updated as we move foward.For all tithes and offerings, please send a check to PO Box 126 Fairfield Iowa,52556 in the name of “Support Services of the Worldwide Church of God”, or to Samuel Kitchen.Also see our new website supportwcg.orgFor more information visit worldwidechurchofgod.org
40 comments:
Wow how!
There’s an opportunity in Africa here Samuel.
The ccog under booby boy is not ‘continuing’ to grow, and is engulfed by all sorts of shenanigans. Bob is not ordained. And you are ‘authorised’ now to receive funds, Bob isn’t. Surely explosive growth is ahead in Africa. Eat ya heart out Bob Thiel. Samuel all you need now is a tv studio, a global magazine, a college campus and the world is your oyster.
There’s an opportunity in Africa here Samuel.
The ccog under booby boy is not ‘continuing’ to grow, and is engulfed by all sorts of shenanigans. Bob is not ordained. And you are ‘authorised’ now to receive funds, Bob isn’t. Surely explosive growth is ahead in Africa. Eat ya heart out Bob Thiel. Samuel all you need now is a tv studio, a global magazine, a college campus and the world is your oyster.
Let's just watch and see whether the blessings begin to accrue! That is the way God manifests positive accountability.
You're on the hot seat now, Sam!
Great.
I remember when Stan Rader at the large CIA facility and military airport promised in front of the entire gathered Philipine Top Brass that WCG would support President Marcos's Agricultural Reform Plan (which btw was made by a member) and would have been crucial to keep Marcos in Power.
Of course one year later the USA lost against the People when Marcos was ousted.... Sabing lots of Tithes for WCG to be spend on another of Americas dictatorial pey projects as supported by the entire reign of HWA ever since he first net the most important people on earth in 1947......The Saudi Leadership.
Thats it for now.
Hope this can be revived.
Nck
Will the I.R.S. accept authorization from a Philippine minister for U.S. charitable donations? Doesn't Mr. Kitchen have to register that himself?
And no doubt that if anyone is stupid enough to tithe to Samuel Kitchen, some of that would get back to Mr Jonathan Dicen. For anyone who hasn't visited the Philippines, it's a dirt poor country.
Based on a hypothetical annual adequate harvest of 10 apples.....in 50 years with 7 sabbatical years and a jubilee year:...... 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 30 - [Lev 25:21] + 0 = 80 apples x 7 cycles = 560 apples, a harvest every 50 years. A biblical tithe given to/stored for others would be 4 apples a cycle [10% of 10 in the 3rd year and 10% of 30 in the 6th year of each cycle - Deut 14:28; 26:12] x 7 cycles = 28 apples. No harvesting was done in sabbatical and jubilee years.
In 50 years 560 apples feed 100% of the population.....28 apples, 5% of 560, feed 5% of the population. But the Levites were only 2% of the population - Num 31:30. So tithing only two years out of seven to give and store for others was enough for the Levites, and 3%? of the population who were the stranger, fatherless, widow.
HWA wanted 10% of 70 apples in a cycle + 10% more of 20 apples in 3rd and 6th yrs = 7 + 2 = 9 apples x 7 cycles = 63 apples + 1 apple [jubilee year] = 64 apples in 50 years. (Maybe more.....I remember at one time it was taught to give the "third" tithe every third year, period).
The Biblical tithe is 28 apples. HWA's tithe is 64 apples........in money but tithing was never commanded on money income.
I rarely comment. But does he know Jonothan Dicen is associated with David Pack and the RCG right? He is a contributing writer for "The Real Truth".
But this is sad to hear. He is doing exactly what My dad warned him against.
I had to check his website out myself, this is truly saddening.
Praying his eyes are opened to the Truth and what He is doing.
Well now. Maybe this hireling Michael Elertson can go and work for Sam Kitchen. After all, don't screws and nuts fit together? Well in a way that would be good because Sam Kitchen and Mike elertson can cancel each other out. elertson is a brutal bigmouth clown and a liar. Why Weston and now this new Worldwide Church Of God ever bribed Elertson to be a minister makes no sense. Elertson is ape-like, so if Sam gets into Africa then Elertson will fit in just fine there on one of their wildlife reserves. Yeah. Just ask his ex-wife. Oh yes and his kids he also abandoned for another skirt.
Armstrong never met the Saudi leadership in '47.
Don't forget Herbie had an important work to send a message from God to Israel and the world so when he took and took and even from the poor it it was to complete this mission. Forty years later we are still scratching our heads trying to work out just what all the noise was about
Ferdinand Marcos actually was overthrown in February 1986.
What a two-month span that was - with Herbert Armstrong's death, then the space shuttle explosion, Marcos and Haiti's Duvalier leaving power at about the same time, followed by Olof Palme being assassinated in Sweden on a Friday night.
For some of us, it seemed the end truly was near.
9:46
Yes Fool, he did in 1947 in London, when he wanted to found Ambassador College in Italy.
RL 6:26
Yessir. You are right. One year later Marcos's health deteriorated being absent most of the time and the economy collapsed so the plans came to naught. I commend you for the a) the slight amendment b) your addition as a blast from the past c) not doubting the premisse of my posting.
Nck
"Woo Hoo! The Orginal Worldwide Church of God Expands Into The Philippines And Samuel Is Now Authorized To Take Your Tithes And Offerings!”
Wrong! Absolutely wrong!! Get your facts straight.
I have NOT authorized them to take my tithes and offerings, and I have no intention of ever authorizing them to take my tithes and offerings.
Sam, I think you will see that the article is not about Dicen taking tithe money, but this somehow legitimizes YOU to take money. This is a slick excuse for you to justify taking people's money with no accountability. It also allows you to take some of the collected money and send it to DIcen for his own "use".
I'm no fool. Herbert never wanted to found the European branch of A.C. in Italy. He wanted Switzerland.
I see 'Nck' is another fake name.
Whenever I comment, I use my name. Don’t know who wrote the anonymous comment (10:05am).
Mr. Dicen is an ordained pastor and as far I know is a faithful man of God. He has given my authorization to receive the tithes and offerings of God, in what I feel personally is in capacity of an usher until the situation is mended. It belongs to God and to His Church and His Work. Not to me. Not to Mr Dicen.
I have spent 15 going on 16 years working online for the furthering and restoration of the Worldwide Church of God, not receiving tithes and offerings from God’s people, but funding my efforts as God blessed me in my secular work.
I have full accountability sir. This is the hot seat as one commenter put it. God will not tolerate thievery, and pretenders! And if I do something wrong I know I will be corrected before all. I am stepping forward in faith, trusting God He knows what He is doing. If this is not of God I do pray it fails because I’d rather obey God and see my people unharmed than to hurt the body of Christ and lead them astray. This is is my utmost concern, that I do it God’s way, honestly, sincerely, and with full assurance of God’s Word.
Satan likes to tempt. He also likes to be sly and clever. But he isn’t for the Worldwide Church of God and for the ministry being restored and for bringing this all back together. He enjoyed these last forty years disassembling the Worldwide Church of God and harming the people, why turn around and undo what he did?
Shortly before my dad died, I feel he was poisoned. He woke up one morning with a stuck neck, extreme pain, and hourly was losing more and more motor functions. He couldn’t sleep, and eventually his body went into sepsis. He later succumbed to it and during a surgery to amputate his leg he didn’t wake up.
For the last couple of weeks I underwent the same thing. I sat there and watched my dad die from what he was going through. So when I woke up one morning the same way, and couldn’t sleep, and was losing motor functions in my arms and legs, I began to be concerned.
But God healed me. And now an open door has been given.
So yes, I was approached by Mr Dicen, after he began fasting and praying several times a week, and he feels God led him to me, and he is fully back of what Mr Armstrong taught.
And we are in agreement. Jesus Christ is Head of the Worldwide Church of God! He is head of the ministry. And Mr Dicen’s fruits is full of repentance and surrender unto Jesus Christ! This I am confident in!
But in my personal relationship with God, my prayers have been answered and I have just come out of something that resembles poisoning. It doesn’t deter me. God healed me. I trust He will deliver me from any trouble that seeks to hurt me and this Church.
Tithes and offerings belong to God. This isn’t a money scheme. I’ve spent 15 years proving my reputation.
How can you say nck is a fake name? That would be Narek Carnig Kajanjian, and he is internationally known in WCG circles! Take time to educate yourself, fool!
Hey Samuel @ 2:53:53 PM PST
Chill out, the comments from anon @ 10:05 look like they are just taking the mickey out of ya. But what do I know? Yeah I’m posting as anon too lol. If it wasn’t for banned by HWA no one but no one would have heard of Armstrongism with its offshoots at all. No one. 99.9999999999999999+% of the world’s population don’t know they exist. Lucky them.
Time for a little humor! Back in the mid seventies, one of the dissident church members who was an artist worked up a parody of the WCG seal. As I recall, it was as if the scene depicted in the seal had been fast forwarded. The lion was devouring the lamb as the small child was running off in terror! I laughed off and on for hours when I saw that, and it still causes a chuckle today!
BB
Samuel Kitchen, Monday, December 1, 2025 at 2:53:53 PM PST, wrote:
"......Satan likes to tempt. He also likes to be sly and clever. But he isn’t for the Worldwide Church of God and for the ministry being restored and for bringing this all back together. He enjoyed these last forty years disassembling the Worldwide Church of God and harming the people, why turn around and undo what he did?......But God healed me. And now an open door has been given......Jesus Christ is Head of the Worldwide Church of God! He is head of the ministry......I’ve spent 15 years proving my reputation.
******
Samuel, where were you 16 years ago? 39 years ago? 40 years ago? Proving what reputation?
If Jesus is the Head of God's Church (Rev 2-3), then He is the Head of Philadelphians and Laodiceans, isn't He?
Samuel, you wrote: "...And now an open door has been given..."
What open door do you have in mind?
An open door (Rev 3:8) was provided for the Philadelphians, and a closed door (Rev 3:20) to the Laodiceans. The WCG via HWA is history and was an organization with sealed Firstfruits (Rev 14:4) within it.
I noticed on another website someone, who teaches Fear Religion, practically worships HWA, and is contemplating a potential significance to the 40th year anniversary of HWA's death, believes that people including Jesus Christ needed to be tested by God in order to qualify for something, talks about some warning Ezekiel message, etc., also mentioned an "open door:"
******
"...So according to the modern calendar we use, it will be 40 years since the death of Mr. Armstrong January 16, 2026. But according to the Hebrew calendar, it will be 40 years on January 24, 2026.
As I say, this may not have any significance, but I think there is a possibility that God has been testing and trying the Church of God for nearly 40 years. I don't expect anything dramatic to happen on or shortly after the 40 years, but it has occurred to me that God has been testing us to see who will have an open door for getting the true gospel and the Ezekiel warning messages out to the nations of Israel between now and the beginning of the great tribulation, which may be several years from now.
Look at it this way. For many decades, God had used Mr. Armstrong to do a powerful work and to discover and teach knowledge from the Bible. Living in the Church was like living in a classroom with Mr. Armstrong as a teacher and the Bible as our textbook. Mr. Armstrong taught us by direct teaching of doctrine as well as by his example, especially the example of his way of life as he shared with us in his autobiography.
Then God took him from us and gave the Church a test to see how well we learned, and that test - that final exam in a sense - has been taking place for the last 40 years as the Church of God has been severely scattered and made virtually powerless in regards to getting the work done.
The test is to determine to whom Christ will give the open door for doing the work. The test can apply to every one of us. He may be measuring us to see who really is Philadelphian in character...."
******
Yes, Satan, a "wolf," scattered the hirelings and sheep of the former WCG and they all fled to do their own thing. The hirelings left their ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena implying that God for His purpose/reason told them: "You're fired!" Where were you? Where are you?
And, now, in 2025 you think God waited until some Mr. Dicen came along so you could write to us and say: "...And now an open door has been given..."?
What about them doors to the Philadelphians/Laodiceans?
Time will tell...
John
Narek Kajanjian here.
Of course you are a fool to be 1 of 2 persons in the world excluding AI, to know it was Lugano where the people speak eyetalian...where it was "Definetely and Finally" was decided AC would be established, "although the matter was still open".... and these two sentences answer everyone who believed HWA set dates on 1975....of course not....
Nck
Not as well known as you are. Oy vey !
Lol
John,
Jesus Christ is Head of the Church of God. What is written on human ledgers does not matter, but whether God’s Holy Spirit is dwelling in you and whether you are led by His spirit every day.
The 7 letters in Revelation 2-3, is speaking directly to seven conditions in the Church of God.
If one responds to Jesus Christ’s letters, they BECOME Philadelphian in condition. If someone on the Laodicean condition repents and responds well, they come into a condition where Jesus Christ can use them. The same goes with every other letter and condition! We can be in the Philadelphia era, concerning spans of prophetic time Jesus Christ set forth, yet have a wrong condition which puts us in the outer court so to speak. No longer is Jesus Christ able to use us, if we are in the wrong condition. This is not about who is better than the other.
The era of Laodicea, is when people respond well and come away from a laodicean attitude and condition.
They are an OBEDIENT CHURCH.
People are teaching the Laodicean church is a separate church, and a disobedient church. That’s false.
Mr Armstrong warned to not leave the Church, and to never fall into the Laodicean attitude and condition because it SEPARATES us from Jesus Christ, and puts us away from the Body. This is the remnant spoken of in Revelation 12:17.
They are separated for a reason, and not close enough to Christ. The response is not good.
That’s the deception of multiple divided separated groups, because it facilitates a feeling that it’s okay to be separate. This refer to as the POW camp of Satan the Devil. Eventually the prisoners will work and labor and will cling on to what they build there, so it makes it difficult for them to come out!
An open door, for the growth and restoration of the Church.
Have you ever seen a boy try on his father’s suit? He’s dressing the part, but it just doesn’t fit.
These groups are like that. They are in a spiritual condition, through separation, a tiny step away from the prepared path, where they are not effective because Jesus Christ cannot use them effectively.
He is not head of multiple churches.
So we have seen spiritual food being preserved for forty years, coming from Herbert W Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God. Like a modern spiritual Joseph for the famine years.
Like the manna in the wilderness.
What I’m saying, is repent and respond to Jesus Christ! Let’s be in the condition where Christ can use us and where we are pleasing God! It’s not about me and against you. That’s a carnal way of looking at things that people tend to do.
Time will tell about things. I’m just stepping out in faith, believing God.
The Worldwide Church of God is spiritual association, or unincorporated spiritual organism. This was said by Mr Armstrong and even published in the incorporation papers of the corporation sole he made during the 1979 receivership.
It stands above the corporations.
This identifies who where when, what and how. And eliminates arguments about things. Because people have their ideas of what the Church of God is, their own versions.
I don’t have a version. I just accept what has been given by God through Mr Armstrong, His servant, the Bible commands me to respond and obey the servant of God. Continuing in what Mr Armstrong taught, puts me closer in a relationship with God and Jesus Christ. Not further. And as I respond to the Word of God, the more I have a deeper relationship with God our Father and Jesus Christ our head. And that’s what I am encouraging.
Sam Kitchen
nck's real name is Walter Mitty.
Sado
"Walter Mitty", "Dos Equis man", "International Man of Mystery"...... all great copes I guess...
Nck
“Rain Man”, “ Gilbert Grape”, or “Forrest Gump” seems more accurate
Sam Kitchen, Wednesday, December 3, 2025 at 3:21:35 PM PST wrote:
"...The 7 letters in Revelation 2-3, is speaking directly to seven conditions in the Church of God...
...So we have seen spiritual food being preserved for forty years, coming from Herbert W Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God. Like a modern spiritual Joseph for the famine years...the Bible commands me to respond and obey the servant of God. Continuing in what Mr Armstrong taught, puts me closer in a relationship with God and Jesus Christ. Not further. And as I respond to the Word of God, the more I have a deeper relationship with God our Father and Jesus Christ our head..."
******
Sam, if we have spiritual food from HWA it was in the form of milk and junk food, with virtually no spiritual meat. Junk food is deceptive.
Sam, you said: "Continuing in what Mr Armstrong taught, puts me closer in a relationship with God and Jesus Christ."
To adhere to HWA 100% over the past 40 years means your knowledge has stagnated with no growth.
For example, you believe that "The 7 letters in Revelation 2-3, is speaking directly to seven conditions in the Church of God;" however, HWA did not believe that.
Let's just use HWA's latest book, Mystery of the Ages (MOA), which indicates that HWA believed and taught about one era following another: just 2 examples and there are more in the MOA.
"...The human leader to be raised up somewhat shortly prior to Christ's Second Coming was to prepare the way--prepare the Church--for Christ's coming, and restore the truth that had been lost through the preceding eras of the Church..."
"...the future of the true Church was foretold in outline form, from the day it began on Pentecost, A.D. 31, until the Second Coming of Christ. The history of the Church would fall into seven distinct eras--each with its own strengths and weaknesses and its own special trials and problems..."
Sam, you said: "Continuing in what Mr Armstrong taught, puts me closer in a relationship with God and Jesus Christ," but HWA taught 7 consecutive eras while you teach 7 conditions. Where did that put you? Who is teaching Junk Food here: you or HWA?
In MOA, Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong's latest book, HWA wrote the following Junk Food:
"...There is good as well as evil in human nature...Had Adam taken of the tree of life, the Holy Spirit of God would have entered him and joined with his spirit, uniting him with God as a son of God..."
Sam, do you believe all of that?
God created human nature and He said it was "very good!"
"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Genesis 1:31
In light of God's Words, who would want to believe that: "There is good as well as evil in human nature?"
God knew/knows good and evil. Adam and Eve, via their very good human nature, only knew good when created.
That tree of life? Adam ate of it? How do you think he got to live 930 years?
More Junk Food? The Tree of Life had nothing to do with God's Spirit. No way was Adam to receive God's Spirit during his 930 years of life. That wasn't in God's Plan of salvation.
It was a tree of life; it provided life and had nothing to do with God's Spirit. The plan of that God, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, Jesus' God, was to have a Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. The Plan of God was for Jesus to be the first/only begotten, the first one to be sealed by God's Spirit. No such thing was ever planned for Adam.
So, Sam, will you continue to believe all that HWA taught, or will you start to believe God's Word?
Time will tell...
John
HWA didn't even wrote most of MOA.
Aaron Dean has repeatedly said for years, how HWA typewriter cassette would run out and pages would be blank, and HWA didn't even know. So Aaron Dean claimed He would fill in the gaps.
Well... Amy gets to manage a Bakery in HWA's Des Moines (a place to grow) .....
Running through America Gump was trained by that guy who trained Schwarzeneger on Campus.
And 'I'll never fly Quantas.
Little Miss Sunshine... I like better.
Nck
John,
I believe the seven letters written by Jesus Christ in Revelation 2-3, were written to seven successive eras.
This is the “spans of prophetic time Jesus Christ set forth”, I wrote about, which you omitted from your quote(s).
The conditions listed in these eras, can be found in the Church of God in every era.
I was focusing merely on the type of response those inside the true Church of God does when they receive a message from Jesus Christ.
I am not believing something different than HWA.
I will refer you to the Bible Study series of Galatians Mr Armstrong gave.
You call it junk food because you got the buffet in mind. I actually agree 100% with the Word of God. Now what Mr Armstrong taught lines up with the Word of God 100%!
I think you don’t like what God gives in His Word, and so when someone serves it up faithfully, you have to look down your nose and say “I deserve better than this slop”. That’s your problem sir. You’re acting like a child. And to omit parts of what I wrote, just to give a false report? You have a habit of doing that with quotations.
You said God created Human Nature and that He said it was “very good!” I’d like a scripture that says that. Did God created Human Nature? I think was answered by Mr Armstrong.Did God create sin? Did God create a devil? If you want to spread thin that “theory” of yours, then what are you really wanting to say? You want to say it, but not outright! What? You want to say that demons and devils are right? No they rebelled, they sinned, God is going to remove them forever and remove Satan the Devil. They are NOT GOOD.
How did you live your lifespan John? You actually believe Adams ate of the tree of life? No, He didn’t. You don’t even believe the Word of God! And every man shall live by every word of the Lord.
Talk about junk food, you just tried to process an idea that sounded biblical but was total nonsense.
You are deeply disturbed… time has told lol
Anon, Thursday, December 4, 2025 at 10:00:30 PM PST, wrote:
HWA didn't even wrote most of MOA.
Aaron Dean has repeatedly said for years, how HWA typewriter cassette would run out and pages would be blank, and HWA didn't even know. So Aaron Dean claimed He would fill in the gaps.
******
Anon, what you wrote may be true about Aaron but, regardless, what was written in the MOA reflected the thoughts and writings of HWA and the Worldwide Church of God organization, and that is what Sam Kitchen wants all of us to believe. Of course, Gerald Flurry disagreed with a lot of what was written in MOA and modified it to write another book to reflect his ideas and thoughts and stick them into another book, possibly using the same title MOA. I am not 100 % sure of the title Flurry used, but he disagreed with some of the spiritual Milk and spiritual Junk Food in MOA.
Of course, Sam Kitchen would judge/blame Flurry to be among all of the scattered groups who departed from the former WCG to be simply part of: "...the POW camp of Satan the Devil."
Might it be that Sam K is among those groups in that POW camp, but is too blind and deceived, to perceive it?
Time will tell...
John
Wrestler Samuel Kitchen, Friday, December 5, 2025 at 6:32:55 AM PST, wrote:
"...I am not believing something different than HWA...I actually agree 100% with the Word of God....Did God created Human Nature? I think was answered by Mr Armstrong.Did God create sin? Did God create a devil? If you want to spread thin that “theory” of yours, then what are you really wanting to say? You want to say it, but not outright! What? You want to say that demons and devils are right? No they rebelled, they sinned, God is going to remove them forever and remove Satan the Devil. They are NOT GOOD.
How did you live your lifespan John? You actually believe Adams ate of the tree of life? No, He didn’t. You don’t even believe the Word of God! And every man shall live by every word of the Lord..."
******
Sam, here is some of the inspired Word of God:
Genesis 2:16 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:"
Every tree, including the tree of life that Adam ate of! Why not eat of them trees?
Sam, apparently both, HWA and you, don't believe those inspired words when the tree of life is bought up in conversation.
Oh, but there was only one particular tree that should not be freely eaten of, and it was not the tree of life! Here is more of the Word of God, which you do also not 100% agree with, but have strived to tie it into receiving God's Spirit if one ate of it:
:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
That tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not the tree of life, was the only exception. There is no reason to make up a theory to say Adam did not eat of that tree of life. Again, Adam lived to be 930 years. Duh!
Do you see anyone alive today that is even 200 years old? No. Is the tree of life still in existence? No. Did Adam eventually die? Yes. Was God's Word true? Yes. Did what God say come true? Yes!
HWA speculated and you bought into it. Don't blame HWA. God hadn't revealed a lot of things to HWA.
Who really is believing the Word of God here?
Sam, you asked: "Did God create sin?"
There are a couple of answers to that one, but the following inspired by God tells us a lot about sin, and it impacts all of us, yes, even including you:
"He that committeth sin is of the devil;..." I John 3:8
"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Romans 7:17, 20
Sam, how did that sin get into Paul, a long-time apostle of God?
Abel was murdered, but by who? By the same one who murdered Jesus Christ!
"Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother..." I John 3:12.
In the OT, there was no sacrifice for murder. Satan will die twice, but HWA taught us that spirit can't die. Who shall we believe: HWA or God's Word?
It has only been appointed for man to die once. What has God planned for Satan and his angels?
Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"
:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:..."
Done deal!
But, Sam, you apparently do not agree with the following Word of God in Eph 6:12.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]."
Afterall, aren't you just continuing to wrestle with flesh and blood, literally with your own brother, and with others like myself?
Time will tell...
John
When are the Armstrongites going to give up on the seven church errors?
John, John, John,
Have you forgotten that in Genesis 3::22-24, we read clearly…
“And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
“Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
“So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
You ask “Who is really believing the word of God here?” I think Mr Armstrong and myself believe. You have DISBELIEF. But I hope it was based on ignorance, and now you aren’t ignorant any more. God’s Word makes things clear if we get rid of any preconceived ideas.
There is a hope which we have in Christ. If we BELIEVE what God says, we can understand much much more. Mr Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God put out much concerning the answers to the questions you ask.
You think I wrestle with flesh and blood now? No I wrestle with demons and the Devil, which have wrong attitudes and wrong moods, and yet I battle them for the sake of my brother in whom I love for see their potential in Christ. I don’t hate anyone, I just want the truth to exist to shine some light on their condition so they may believe Christ when HE SHOWS THEM. I know as long as I show people their sins, or how Satan is using or working in them, I won’t believed. I am not here to force anyone to believe. Sometimes I think it’ll take me to go through much suffering to show the power of Jesus Christ doing the work, so that many may believe. That’s a good cost for the future of others.
And if I may be used by God to inspire even the hardest hearted of foes, then God be the Glory.
You gotta believe all of God’s Word. We cannot pick and choose and cherry pick what we want to believe! It is our bread of Life, and it is commanded we live by every word of God, and in His Word is Life, for it is Jesus Christ and in Him is life.
Have a wonderful Sabbath John.
Sam Kitchen
Samuel Kitchen, Friday, December 5, 2025 at 11:57:13 PM PST, wrote and I will comment using [[double brackets]].
……God’s Word makes things clear if we get rid of any preconceived ideas.
[[First of all, Sam, I had a delightful Sabbath day, and I hope you did too.
So, meanwhile, when will you get rid of your, and HWA's, preconceived ideas?
Adam ate of the tree of life. You, like virtually the entire world, lack the faith to believe that.
How else do you explain Adam living 930 years? And many of Adam's relatives lived to be more than 800 years old. Abraham only went to 175 years and laughed being 100 years old after being told Sarah would birth a son. Noah began having children at age 500.
What was in that tree of life? What enabled Adam to live so long? Eating the fruit of that good tree of life? Eating the leaves of that good tree of life?
If Adam ate of that tree of life and lived forever, especially after Satan, god of this present evil world, infested the minds of both Adam and Eve, there would never be a kingdom of God established on earth.
Whatever Adam and Eve ate of that tree of life got into their bodies, and apparently passed on through their genes to future generations. Whatever it was, it was powerful, but Adam and Eve living forever, infested with Satan's spirit (James 4:5; Eph 2:2, etc.) in their minds was not part of God's plan of salvation to save all humanity and subsequently destroy Satan and his angels.
So, God made sure that Adam and Eve no longer had access to that tree of life. They were no longer allowed to eat of the tree and live forever. Hence, they did die; didn't they? And, yes, they still got to live a long time, but not forever.
Is that the end of the tree of life?
No, God will again provide trees of life in the future to benefit human beings. How do we know that?
Revelation 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God."
Now, that will occur after the second resurrection takes place, and notice God is talking about men, people: human beings.
Now, you don't believe that, because HWA didn't believe that and you are following a man, rather than the inspired words of God.
:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
They are human beings! What a fantastic future ahead for them! God does it; you don't.
How will those humans live?
Just like Adam and Eve did. God has the plan and the power to work it all out His way, and not our way.
Revelation 22:1 "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations."
And those resurrected people, men, will live forever, but guess what they will be eating? Spirit beings won't need those trees of life, but you won't believe those words either, because HWA believed that all would end up being spirit beings, or perish, and you believe HWA.
And what was that gospel preached to Abraham and his kids? All families/nations to be blessed. In other words, no longer under the worldwide curse (Zech 5:3; Rev 22:3) of living under the reign/control of Satan, the god of this present evil world, that began way back in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve...etc.]]
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
……There is a hope which we have in Christ. If we BELIEVE what God says, we can understand much much more......
[[No doubt about it, Sam!]]
......You think I wrestle with flesh and blood now? No I wrestle with demons and the Devil, which have wrong attitudes and wrong moods, and yet I battle them for the sake of my brother in whom I love for see their potential in Christ. I don’t hate anyone, I just want the truth to exist to shine some light on their condition so they may believe Christ when HE SHOWS THEM. I know as long as I show people their sins, or how Satan is using or working in them, I won’t believed. I am not here to force anyone to believe. Sometimes I think it’ll take me to go through much suffering to show the power of Jesus Christ doing the work, so that many may believe. That’s a good cost for the future of others.
And if I may be used by God to inspire even the hardest hearted of foes, then God be the Glory.
[[You are trying to save the world, save your brother, but God does not need your help. God knows all of His works (Acts 15:18; Heb 4:3) and He will take care of your brother, and you. It's His Will be done, not your will be done.
You won't impress us by showing us our sins, because most of us know we have sin in our lives (like Paul knew sin was in him, Romans 7:17, 20), and evil present with him too :21. And we're not going to follow you, who is no better/worse than the rest of us?
You mentioned you will show people "...how Satan is using or working in them...", but you still don't understand how Adam and Eve were infested. Did God ask you to show us all of these things?
Virtually, all of the hirelings of the former WCG think they are God's little henchmen and need to correct the rest of us. They are all scattered, confused, and in division among themselves for a reason, and time will tell.]]
……You gotta believe all of God’s Word. We cannot pick and choose and cherry pick what we want to believe! It is our bread of Life, and it is commanded we live by every word of God, and in His Word is Life, for it is Jesus Christ and in Him is life.
[[Sam, why did you write those words, because only one individual, so far, has lived by every word of God? You aren't doing it. You can't do it; neither can I. That is one of the lessons of the entire Old Testament with God's dealings with ancient Israel, who at times professed: "Yes, LORD, all that you say to do we will do," and didn't do it!
God is working out His plan, and all families/nations shall be blessed, or will only a few be saved and a whole bunch perish in a lake of fire?
Time will tell...
John]]
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