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Thursday, July 3, 2025
Wednesday, July 2, 2025
Is Our Favorite Crackpot Prophet A Real Historian?
Bob Thiel Is NOT A Historian!
Bob Thiel of COGwriter and the Continuing Church of God claims to be an expert on the early history of the Church, but his writings on the subject are extremely biased and ignore a great deal of evidence. In short, Pastor Thiel is not going to win any awards for historical scholarship!
In his booklet Continuing History of the Church of God, he makes a number of statements which are simply NOT supported by the available evidence, and he writes a number of things which are demonstrably FALSE. At the beginning of his booklet, Thiel asked: "Was there an early, original form of Christianity that was so persecuted and so maligned, yet continued from c. 31 A.D.? Even today would it be overlooked by most who profess Christ?" The questions imply that what most of us recognize as Christianity is far different from the original version of the faith. What about that? Is Bob asking the right questions? More importantly, is he providing the right answers to his questions?
First, Pastor Thiel boldly proclaimed that "The Church of God has the Right Name and the Right Size." His proof? A number of Scriptural passages from the King James Version of the New Testament which refer to Christ's disciples as the "Church(es) of God." Never mind that the original Greek word, ekklesia, which is translated into English as "Church" means "an assembly of people called together." Hence, literally, the various passages which he quoted in his remarks refer to an assembly of people called together by God! In other words, the ekklesia of God describes what the Church IS - it is NOT a proper name. In the same way, the "Continuing Church of God" describes a group of people who belong to the organization which Bob Thiel founded!
As we have already noted, Pastor Thiel believes that the "true" ekklesia of God will be "the right size" (meaning that the Church would be small in numbers). His proof? He quotes a number of passages from the New Testament which refer to a "little flock" and talk about intense persecution. Now, to be sure, the early Church was very small in numbers. Indeed, the Church remained focused on Jerusalem for the first decade of its existence! Nevertheless, what Bob forgets or ignores is that Christ had predicted that his gospel would be preached throughout the world before the end, and that he commanded his disciples to "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20) In other words, Christ never intended for his ekklesia to remain a small and insular group of folks centered locally in Judaea!
Pastor Thiel went on to point out that the early Church continued to observe Torah. He even quoted theologian JJL Ratton:
The early Church at Jerusalem, retained most of the distinctive customs of the Jews, such as circumcision, kosher meats, the Jewish Sabbath, the Jewish rites, and worship of the Temple. Our Lord, Himself, lived the exterior life of a Jew, even so far as the observance of Jewish religious customs was concerned. The early Church of Jerusalem followed His example. The Jews looked upon the Hebrew Christians in Jerusalem simply as a Jewish sect, which they called the sect of the Nazarenes.
Of course, Thiel fails to mention that Jesus was a Jew, and that he HAD to fulfill the provisions of Torah! Likewise, Thiel fails to mention that Christ's disciples, and the members of the early Church, were entirely JEWISH. In other words, we would expect to find Jews observing the provisions of Torah! However, it is also clear that most Gentiles were completely unfamiliar with the Jewish Scriptures and had no tradition(s) of observing the commandments therein!
Moreover, Pastor Thiel fails to acknowledge the significance of the great Council of Jerusalem which was called to settle the matter of a Gentile Christian's obligation(s) with regard to the commandments of Torah (see Acts 15). Indeed, when we read this Scriptural account of that Council, we see that the "Jewish" apostles decided to exempt Gentiles from any obligation to become Jews or to observe the tenets of Torah!
Bob went on to underscore the importance of the failure of the second Jewish rebellion against the Romans in 135 CE, but he ignores the traumatic events of 70 CE - when the Romans destroyed Herod's Temple and Jerusalem and ended Jewish self-rule. Why was this such an egregious omission? Because, from that day forward, it was NO LONGER POSSIBLE to observe the commandments of Torah in the manner prescribed in those first five books of the Hebrew Bible! This was true for both Jews and Jewish Christians.
Mr. Thiel also authored an article titled "History of Early Christianity in which he makes a number of statements which are clearly untrue! In that article, he listed a number of doctrinal positions which he attributed to the early Church. Among those, he cited: Baptism, both Testaments, Binitarianism, Hierarchical Church government, the "true" Gospel, tithes and offerings used to support the ministry, etc. Of course, to anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the history of First Century Christianity, a number of problems with Bob's assertions about the teachings of the early Church will be immediately apparent!
Baptism was a ritual which pointed to the burial of the old self and the resurrection of the new person in Christ. The ONLY Scriptures available to First Century Christians were the ones found in the Hebrew Bible - the same one which we now refer to as the Old Testament! While some of the epistles and Gospel accounts were available to some congregations during the latter half of the First Century, it is a well-established fact that the canon of the New Testament took a couple of centuries to come together in the form that we now enjoy. Likewise, there are a number of Scriptural passages which make reference to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (and I would defy anyone to say that the Holy Spirit is not God)! Moreover, Jesus did NOT teach an authoritarian or hierarchical form of church governance. Christ taught SERVANT leadership, and his early disciples practiced that in their individual congregations. After the fall of Jerusalem, there wasn't any "headquarter" Church! According to the Hebrew Bible, tithes were owed by the Israelites to support the Temple, Levites, priests, poor, and to celebrate the commanded festivals at the central sanctuary. In short, in almost every instance, Bob's assertions fail both the Scriptural and historical accounts available to us!
Like many of the followers of Herbert Armstrong, Bob ignores the Didache, epistles of Ignatius of Antioch, writings of Justin Martyr, epistle of Barnabas, etc. and the evidence which they supply about early Christian beliefs and practices. He ignores both the Scriptural and historical evidence which points to the fact that Christians began celebrating Sunday in the First Century - in the time of the apostles. He also ignores the clear evidence that the "Gospel" or "Good News" was all about Jesus Christ and salvation through him - that his purpose was to save all of humanity! No, I'm afraid that Bob Thiel is NOT an expert on early Christianity. His narrative is like the fairy tales of old - it pleases the children of Herbert W Armstrong, but it bears little resemblance to what actually happened!
Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix
Moreover, Pastor Thiel fails to acknowledge the significance of the great Council of Jerusalem which was called to settle the matter of a Gentile Christian's obligation(s) with regard to the commandments of Torah (see Acts 15). Indeed, when we read this Scriptural account of that Council, we see that the "Jewish" apostles decided to exempt Gentiles from any obligation to become Jews or to observe the tenets of Torah!
Bob went on to underscore the importance of the failure of the second Jewish rebellion against the Romans in 135 CE, but he ignores the traumatic events of 70 CE - when the Romans destroyed Herod's Temple and Jerusalem and ended Jewish self-rule. Why was this such an egregious omission? Because, from that day forward, it was NO LONGER POSSIBLE to observe the commandments of Torah in the manner prescribed in those first five books of the Hebrew Bible! This was true for both Jews and Jewish Christians.
Mr. Thiel also authored an article titled "History of Early Christianity in which he makes a number of statements which are clearly untrue! In that article, he listed a number of doctrinal positions which he attributed to the early Church. Among those, he cited: Baptism, both Testaments, Binitarianism, Hierarchical Church government, the "true" Gospel, tithes and offerings used to support the ministry, etc. Of course, to anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the history of First Century Christianity, a number of problems with Bob's assertions about the teachings of the early Church will be immediately apparent!
Baptism was a ritual which pointed to the burial of the old self and the resurrection of the new person in Christ. The ONLY Scriptures available to First Century Christians were the ones found in the Hebrew Bible - the same one which we now refer to as the Old Testament! While some of the epistles and Gospel accounts were available to some congregations during the latter half of the First Century, it is a well-established fact that the canon of the New Testament took a couple of centuries to come together in the form that we now enjoy. Likewise, there are a number of Scriptural passages which make reference to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (and I would defy anyone to say that the Holy Spirit is not God)! Moreover, Jesus did NOT teach an authoritarian or hierarchical form of church governance. Christ taught SERVANT leadership, and his early disciples practiced that in their individual congregations. After the fall of Jerusalem, there wasn't any "headquarter" Church! According to the Hebrew Bible, tithes were owed by the Israelites to support the Temple, Levites, priests, poor, and to celebrate the commanded festivals at the central sanctuary. In short, in almost every instance, Bob's assertions fail both the Scriptural and historical accounts available to us!
Like many of the followers of Herbert Armstrong, Bob ignores the Didache, epistles of Ignatius of Antioch, writings of Justin Martyr, epistle of Barnabas, etc. and the evidence which they supply about early Christian beliefs and practices. He ignores both the Scriptural and historical evidence which points to the fact that Christians began celebrating Sunday in the First Century - in the time of the apostles. He also ignores the clear evidence that the "Gospel" or "Good News" was all about Jesus Christ and salvation through him - that his purpose was to save all of humanity! No, I'm afraid that Bob Thiel is NOT an expert on early Christianity. His narrative is like the fairy tales of old - it pleases the children of Herbert W Armstrong, but it bears little resemblance to what actually happened!
Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix
Belief and Salvation in Armstrongism
The Relationship between Truth and Belief (Fair Use)
Belief and Salvation in Armstrongism
An Example of the Autocratic Model of Belief Management
By Scout
"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."
– A common view of belief in mainstream Christianity
There are some beliefs that I hold that are not held by the denomination I belong to. One of my personal beliefs has scriptural support in the New Testament and was common among the Patristics but has fallen into obscurity in modern day Christianity. Further, there are some things in Christian belief that I hold without reserve. Then there are others where I permit myself some reserve. While I subscribe to the idea of the Eternal Generation of the Son because it effectively reflects Biblical data, I have reservations about it because it is so arcane, therefore, I am not going to fall on my sword over it.
I
The Case of Belief in “Soul Sleep”
A case in point. Do you really need to believe in “soul sleep,” an old Adventist viewpoint, in order to receive salvation? Christianity does not have heartburn over soul sleep. Roger Olson, a theologian at Baylor University, does not regard soul sleep even as a heresy. He feels it is really just an opinion. My guess is that if you openly state that you do not believe in soul sleep in an Armstrongist denomination, you will eventually be disfellowshipped. First, you will be counseled and if you remain recalcitrant you will be cast out as a rebel against the government of God. An issue of belief is transformed into an issue of governance. This is because you do not have the liberty under denominational governance to believe anything outside the boundaries of little booklet theology.
In truth, I don’t know how thoroughly these boundaries have been tested. Maybe you could believe that Zebulon is really only part of Holland but not all of it. Maybe nobody would care about that. But I doubt that you could decide not to unleaven your house one year and yet remain a member in good standing. Such issues of belief might even pivot on the autocratic proclivities of your local Armstrongist minister more than anything else. Maybe he would insist on your fealty to the body of church belief exactly as it is written up in the little booklets. No quarter given. This approach might even be couched as “bound in heaven.”
I believe soul sleep is a non-essential. However, I don’t believe that Armstrongist theology sorts beliefs into essential and non-essential categories. When I was an Armstrongist, I was always rigorous about belief in little booklet theology. So, I did not have the occasion to collect much empirical evidence on how some assertion of personal belief might be handled by the Armstrongist ministry. I had no personal beliefs. I don’t now have a big commitment to the intermediate state as opposed to soul sleep. If I arrived in the next life and someone told me that soul sleep was actually true, I would not go so far as to yawn but it would not disturb my equanimity. It is non-essential to salvation.
The Case for Viewpoint
The Bible implicitly permits viewpoint by not being exhaustive on every subject. For instance, consider the subject of what happens to a person immediately after death. There is an exegesis that points to soul sleep. And there is also an exegesis for the intermediate state. The Biblical authors do not treat this topic exhaustively so there is naturally divergence in viewpoint among readers. I happen to believe that the intermediate state belief has more supportive data in scripture. Yet, the fact is, we do not find incontrovertible clarity in scripture on the topic of soul sleep.
I do believe there are principles of Christianity that are incontrovertible. Christianity is, after all, a thing. It has boundaries within which core essentials reside. You can get so far away from the core, like the Circumcision Party did, that Paul says that Christ no longer has an effect for you and you are fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). I also believe that we are intended to grow in knowledge as the Holy Spirit provides (John 14:26, 2 Peter 3:18). Only brothers that are a little naïve would assert that we know pretty much all that there is to know about God and his Way – that knowledge is no static.
Some might say that no understanding can happen outside the leadership of the church. But if the leadership of the church says that Pentecost is on Monday, does that make it so? And what is the status of those people in the pews who recognized it as being on Sunday before the pulpit recognized it was on Sunday? Belief may not correspond to truth as the graphic at the top shows. Is it possible in this system that someone could have been disfellowshipped for keeping Pentecost on the right day? I believe the suppression of viewpoint by church leadership is not an issue of correct belief but of denominational discipline. It is an issue of governance. If the church preaches error, you as a follower must believe error until the church reforms its position, if ever.
The Upshot
Armstrongism brooks no disagreement on theology. Since the Bible is not exhaustive on every topic and translating ancient language is somewhat elastic because modern word definitions may be just consensus definitions, a better approach would be to recognize the division between essential and non-essential beliefs. And the autocratic approach to belief does not play well with salvation. It burdens salvation with conditions that could be classed as denominational interpretations. This topic is non-trivial. I cannot do it justice in a few words. I am interested in what others think.
Monday, June 30, 2025
Philadelphia Church of God Sure Knows How To Waste Tithe Money On Flurry's Grandkids
The Philadelphia Church of God certainly knows how to spend members' tithe money on extravagant, seemingly unnecessary purchases. There was no justification for buying a Gulfstream jet, except that Flurry wanted to avoid commercial flights and the general public. The jet has never been used to meet world leaders or spread any gospel message. Instead, it serves as a personal playground for Lil’ Stevie, his children, and other PCG elites, ferrying them across the country for Irish dance competitions and stage shows featuring Judd Flurry.
Additionally, hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent on new dance studios, hiring British and Irish Celtic dance instructors, staging performances, and traveling nationwide and internationally—none of which has anything to do with delivering a gospel message.
June 26, 2025
— pastorplanes (@pastorplanes) June 27, 2025
Philadelphia Church of God (Gerald Flurry) - Gulfstream G4 from Oklahoma City to Liverpool, England. pic.twitter.com/XRm2yhvV9J
June 27, 2025
— pastorplanes (@pastorplanes) June 28, 2025
Philadelphia Church of God (Gerald Flurry) - Gulfstream G4 from Liverpool, England to Birmingham, England. pic.twitter.com/wAdjY7IcjF
Also see:
PCG Members Expected To Send In Money To Fund $80,000.00 Jet Rides For Lil'Stevie And The Grandkids
Gerald Flurry Tells Members To Be Ready To Be Deported While He Prepares To Buy A New 11 Million Dollar Jet
PCG: As Income Plummets, Flurry Declares Fast To Force His "god" Into Making PCG Members Give More Money
Gerald Flurry Follows in HWA's Steps and Buys Gulfstream G450 Jet
PCG: God gave us our new jet
PCG: Flurry Elite Travel In Style In Corporate Jet On Backs Of Tithing Members
Gerald Flurry: Elite Grandson, Grant Turgeon Trained To Be Steward To The BIG BOSS On New PCG Jet
Follow Gerald Flurry As He Flies Around The World Wasting PCG Members Tithe Money
New King of the Church of God Travels To England
PCG Turns Off Tracking On Flurry Family's Private Jet But Still Can't Stop People From Tracking Them
Lamborghini's, Gulfstream Jets, Gold, and Silver...We Deserve The Best!
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