Saturday, June 22, 2013

Dennis On: An Admission:Reincarnation is True: The Apostle David and the Apostle Paul Are One And The Same

An Admission:Reincarnation is True

The Apostle David and the Apostle Paul Are One And The Same

Dennis Diehl - EzineArticles Expert AuthorI would like to believe that reincarnation is a possibility in life.  The Bible seems to indicate that some mistook John the Baptist for Elijah of old or even Jesus as a reincarnated John.  Jesus was the new Adam and even now today we have the Apostle David Pack as the reincarnated Joshua.  Of course, HWA was the reincarnated version of Zerrubb...Zurub....oh you know who.

 But I have to admit, and this pains me,  the Apostle David Joshua Pack and the Apostle Paul are one and the same.  This comparison is without refute.  I suspect the Apostle Paul, who by his own account was a lousy speaker, somewhat unpleasant to look at, unwanted by any women which is the real reason he was so able to avoid the burden of marriage to one and a weak bodied presence, seems to have gotten a second chance and was allowed to return as the Apostle David Joshua Pack for such a time as this.

Here is the inescapable proof from scripture itself. Not only that, but I am going to go boldly where few COG ministers go....the New Testament.

Paul's apostleship was unrecognized by others nor is Dave's.

"Of the 22 times in the Bible where Paul is referred to as an "apostle", only twice is he referred to as an apostle by someone other than himself! These two instances came from the same person. Not from Yahshua, or any of the original apostles, but from Paul's close traveling companion and personal press secretary Luke. Both accounts are found in Luke's record of the Acts of the Apostles, (chapter 14:4,14). Here Paul is referred to as an apostle along with Barnabas. By this time in the story, Luke would have been very accustomed to Paul calling himself an apostle, and he would no doubt have been in agreement with Paul's assessment of himself. By these statistics alone, it is evident that Paul is by far his own biggest fan... and his side kick Luke was his number two fan. This  leaves no one else anywhere in the Bible going on record recognizing his apostleship!" 
"Other than the twelve apostles who spent three and a half years with Yahshua, no one other than Paul can be identified as having claimed for themselves the title of "apostle".  Barnabas was referred to as an apostle along with Paul by Luke in Acts 14:14, but there is no record of Barnabas claiming the title for himself."

(thanks to the above site for the insights)

And so it is with the Apostle David Joshua Pack.  I can find NO ONE ELSE on the planet, save for those in RCG who have ever called DJP an Apostle.  Truly, truly proof of this reincarnation.

"I wanna talk about me!  Dave also wants to talk about him!  Awesome coincidence!

"No other epistle author in the Bible wrote like Paul. This would be true on a number of levels, but one aspect is of particular interest when we are considering how Paul views himself. He had a way of drawing attention to himself with his usage of personal pronouns. When it comes to how often he uses words like, "I", "me", "my", or "mine", the overall rate in his epistles is almost three times that of his next closest rival. There are a number of reasons why many scholars today believe Paul was not the author of the book of Hebrews. One obvious reason is, in the other epistles credited to him, Paul doesn't hesitate to identify himself along with his supposed credentials. The author of Hebrews is strangely silent on these matters. Many scholars believe Barnabas was the author of Hebrews, but I think Apollos is a far better candidate... but that's a different subject. The point is, no one knows for sure.  But Paul certainly couldn't be in the running as the author of Hebrews when one also considers the statistical rate of the personal pronoun usage. The author of Hebrews refers to himself only 9 times, which is approximately 1.3 personal pronouns per thousand words. To help put this in perspective, let's compare the book of Hebrews to the book of Romans. They are both relatively large books of similar length, divided into 13 and 16 chapters respectively. Yet in only the first half of the first chapter of Romans, which is 16 verses worth, Paul uses twice as many personal pronouns as the author of Hebrews uses in his entire book! In the book of Romans, Paul refers to himself 103 times, which is rate of about 18.2 per thousand! That is 13x greater than Hebrews. In 1 Corinthians, Paul refers to himself 175 times, in 2Corinthians 103 times again, and in the relatively short book of Galatians, he refers to himself 69 times which is a rate of 25 personal pronouns per 1000 words!

It should be evident that Paul is at least as concerned with making a statement about himself as he is in communicating what he believes to be the truth about God."

Pretty awesome huh?  It's the same with the Apostle Dave.  How much proof does one need!  I don't think I have ever quite been able to explain this ever before as I do today. Well, maybe once in 1997 at 3:30 in NY in a sermon, but really..nothing like this....I recall thinking how awesome this is when I read the obituary of Shirley Pack (who was a very nice person by the way,) and the Apostle Pack had his own picture on the Obituary.  Awesome.  Just like the Apostle Paul..well if he had a wife.  

The Apostle Paul was the only source of true truth and got to write the final way it all is in Christ.  Paul Polarized and Dave Plagiarized maybe?  No one quite understood it all like Paul as so it is with Dave.  All of Asia forsook Paul and rather than wonder why, he just turned them over to God for forgiveness.  Not unlike today...The Apostle David has been often rejected and persecuted by WCG but he forgives them and has asked God not to charge that to their wait.  He just hates them for it. Ok, not just like Paul in everything. 

"When we take a survey of the New Testament, we notice that Paul is the single greatest contributor to it. When we read the book of Acts, we can't help but get the impression that the great bulk of what God was doing in the early church was happening through Paul. But it is misleading, because the book of Acts was written from only one man's perspective... Luke's. Luke traveled with Paul on his missionary journeys and the bulk of the book of Acts is the account of those travels. What we have in Acts is only one man's point of view, and from Luke's perspective, Paul's story would no doubt have appeared to be front and center stage. There is a likely reason why Luke chose to follow Paul and record his story in the first place. Paul branded himself the apostle to the Gentiles, and Luke, being a Gentile, would have seen Paul as where things were happening for him. When we consider Paul taught that there is no difference in God’s eyes between Jew and Gentile, but all believers in Yahshua now constitute "the true Israel of God", what Gentile who desired to get close to the God of Israel wouldn’t be absolutely thrilled with Paul? But even though the view from the book of Acts is polarized and biased, it is still very important in helping us understand what was happening at that time. Without it we wouldn't have much of an idea at all. What was done and said as recorded by Luke is priceless, and we have no good reason to question what he saw and heard. Luke's own personal thoughts that he interjected occasionally may be questioned, but they are few and far between. I see no good reason to accuse Luke of malicious intent. The important thing to remember is that the book of Acts was written from a very singular point of view. 

No doubt, God was doing other things at that same time. We don't have a detailed record of it, but we do have some clues. God was certainly working through the original apostles, and some of those things are recorded in the beginning of Acts. The apostle John was hard at work for his Lord, but we hear very little from him until we get to his epistles and the book of the Revelation at the end of the New Testament. "

Reincarnation is AWESOME!

   Paul's and Dave's claims of apostleship   And YES brethren...I AM an Apostle!

"Paul was not at all shy about calling himself an apostle. In fact, in nine out of thirteen of his books, he introduces himself as an apostle of Yahshua, and in each case states in some way that his apostleship is by heavenly decree.

Here is the question. Should we automatically believe the testimony of a person who makes grandiose claims about themselves when all we have for confirmation of their claim is little more than their word and maybe a statement or two from their best friend? If so, then we should likewise confirm those like Jim Jones and David Koresh. Unless there is obvious corroborative evidence to support such claims, all of them should be taken with a very large grain of salt. Unlike Paul, a true prophet or apostle does not have to go to such extraordinary lengths to convince the world they are who they say they are. Even Yahshua said that if he alone bore witness of himself, his witness was invalid. John 5:31 And of all the people who shouldn't need to have others testify on their behalf, Yahshua was that person. Yet he had Moses, the prophets, the Psalms, John the Baptist, the Fathers voice from heaven saying, "You are My beloved Son..." and hundreds of those who witnessed his resurrection. Paul had none of these. Though in his conceit, he considered himself to be God's special gift to the Gentiles, and claimed for himself a prophecy that was given exclusively to Isaiah in Isaiah 49:6.  

"For so the Lord has commanded us: 'I have set you to be a light to the Gentiles that you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth." Acts 13:47"

The cycle of Apostleship is simply amazing.  They never go away. They just keep returning until the planet gets it right!  You do almost make me a believer.

 Paul, the greatest apostle and so is David! 

Paul's view of himself as an apostle didn't stop at only claiming to be an apostle. He also did what he could to communicate to his followers that he topped them all. He even had the nerve to belittle the very apostles that Yahshua had called and trained for three and a half years to be his witnesses! Among this braggadocio's self-flattering quotes are the following.
"For I consider that I am not at all inferior to the most eminent apostles". ...."As the truth of Christ is in me, no one shall stop me from this boasting in the regions of Achaia."   2 Corinthians 11:5,10 

Sometimes, as though he knew he should be ashamed of challenging the stature of Yahshua's 12, he would preface his boast with a statement of unworthiness. No doubt he hoped people would embrace him as the greatest of apostles because he was so humble.
"For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all...". 1Corinthians 15:9,10 

Aside from the fact that it was a lie to suggest the ministry had been split up between Jews and Gentiles though he had exclusive rights to the Gentiles and the 12 were to stay with the Jews..., Paul even had the gall to condescend specifically on Peter, James, and John when he belittled them to the Galatians.

"But from those who seemed to be something - whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man- for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),  and when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised."  Galatians 2:6,7,9 

This is nothing but an arrogant lie. A couple verses later, Paul takes another cheap-shot at Peter. With Peter nowhere around to defend himself, Paul brags to the Galatians how he had determined Peter was a hypocrite, and how he had put him down before the entire church of Antioch.

"But when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews played the hypocrite with him so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straight forward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "if you being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?" Galatians 2:11-14

Earlier, in Galatians 1:8,9, Paul commanded his followers to consider "accursed" anyone who preaches a different gospel than his. There is little doubt that Paul wanted the Galatians to think this way toward Peter, if not James, and John as well. It is obvious to anyone reading the book of Galatians that Paul was demanding the Galatian church follow no one but him, not even the original apostles back in Jerusalem.

Aside from Paul's incredible arrogance, I also need to point out that Paul himself was the ultimate hypocrite for condemning Peter for accommodating Gentiles when he was around Gentiles and acting like a Jew around Jews. Here is what he claimed to do, and commanded the Corinthians to do as well.   

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without the law as without law... that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." 1Corinthians 9:19-22 

"Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved. Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ."   1Corinthians 10:31-33
When Paul says, "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ" we should do as he says... because in no way did he imitate Yahshua! Can anyone imagine Yahshua playing chameleon and saying anything like "I have become all things to all men" or  "I please all men in all things"? 

So here we have Paul, claiming to be greater than any other apostle, belittling Peter, James, and John by saying they only "seemed" to be pillars of the church, and that they "added nothing" to him. Then he brags about how he told off Peter... calling him a hypocrite, and he subtly curses the apostles by telling the Galatians to consider accursed anyone who differs with him. All this, while in fact, he was being the greatest hypocrite of all! The superstitious belief that Paul's words are infallible is so thick that people can't see the forest for all the trees that are in the way! If anyone else had even begun to do and say the things that Paul did, we would have recognized their incredible conceit and rejected them a long time ago. Here is something relevant that Solomon said.

"Let another man praise you, and not your own mouth; A stranger, and not your own lips."   Proverbs 27:2

What can I say more than this....? Can anyone condemn, pick on, make fun of or label the COGs better than Apostle David?  I think NOT!

Paul and the Ephesians vs Dave and the Buffalonians or Chicagonians or Rochesterians or....

Now, look at what was said to the church that we know Paul had been involved in... Ephesus. Among the things that Yahshua commended the Ephesian church for doing right, is this quote:

"I know your works, your labor, and your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars." Rev. 2:2 

Yes. I have no doubts Yahshua was referring to Paul and his companions, and that his claim of apostleship, as well as his doctrine, were false!  Hang in there and consider all the facts with me for a minute. Here are four of them... with the silver bullet coming shortly after.  

1.  Paul's doctrine on the foreknowledge of God is not only groundless (because he had to abuse Scripture to support it), it is blasphemous, because it outright accuses God of unrighteousness. (See previous chapters)

2.  We have record of Paul claiming to be an apostle to the Ephesians.  "Paul, an apostle of Yahshua by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus,"  Ephesians 1:1 

3.  We have no record of anyone else claiming to be an apostle to anyone anywhere, not even to the Ephesians.

4.  Paul and his doctrine had troubles being accepted in Ephesus.

"And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God. But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the way before the multitude..."   Acts 19:8,9 

Remember, this is recorded from Luke’s point of view and he believed Paul's doctrine was "the Way".  Notice that those who rejected Paul are men of the synagogue and not atheists or pagans. If these men had stood up in front of the synagogue and said, "Paul's doctrine is flawed. He is a false apostle, and a liar", Luke would no doubt have seen this as "speaking evil of the Way".

If these four reasons are not enough to seriously call into question Paul's status as an apostle there is one more. It is a most interesting quote from Paul's own pen that finally seals the fate of his supposed apostleship. It comes from his second letter to Timothy, written during the same Neronian persecution in which John was given the Revelation. This letter is believed by many scholars to contain the last recorded words of Paul. Here he makes a short statement of lament that seems to have gone unnoticed... the implications of which are devastating to Paul if one is able to hear everything that is being said. Paul makes this statement to Timothy.

"This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me."   2Timothy 1:15
Asia!  All of them!  Rejecting Paul!  And when he says, "This you know", it sounds like this must have been relatively common knowledge at that time.  Asia!  The very place that Yahshua told John to write, where his seven churches were!  And they were alive, and obviously had been established for some time. Paul did not say that Asia had rejected Yahshua. Obviously they hadn't rejected Yahshua if there were thriving churches there that Yahshua wanted to address through John. Instead Paul said that all Asia had rejected him personally! This is also corroborated in the book of Acts where men from Asia accuse Paul of teaching against the Law, and bringing an Ephesian friend into the temple.  

And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him. crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the Law, and this place: and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place." (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)   Acts 21:27-29

Try to grasp the profound significance of all this. Here we have in the book of Revelation the words of Yahshua commending the Ephesian church for rejecting someone who claimed to be his apostle, while Paul is the only person other than the twelve original apostles to have claimed to be an apostle... and we know he has made this very claim to this same Ephesian church. At the same time, Paul laments himself of the fact that he has been rejected by them!  How could it NOT be Paul and his associates  that Yahshua had commended the Ephesian church for rejecting? Could it be much more obvious? Here are the facts, paraphrased, one more time.  

Paul to the Ephesians: "I am an apostle of Yahshua"
The Ephesians to Paul: "No you're not."
Yahshua to the Ephesians: "Well done!" 

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I can't speak for you, but I''m convinced.  The Apostle Paul and the Apostle David are one and the same.  Brothers from other mothers maybe but yet the same.  Self appointed, ego centric, terrible team players, making shit up as they go, rejected by most, braggarts, telling their story differently than reality would have it and of course, chosen from the womb or in Apostle David's case, chosen by Haggai in the 6th century BC.  Bronze Age Apostle Dave I suppose. 

"Let the wise understand................."


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Anonymous said...

It seems to all boil down to vanity.
Vanity is probably our biggest mistake as a species.

Byker Bob said...

In the 1980's, during the middle period of my spiritually homeless rumblings, I was tremendously interested in the life and teachings so Edgar Cayce, the sleeping prophet.

Cayce taught that many of the aberrations and anomalies of our current lives, along with relationship quirks, were traceable to events and behavioral patterns in our past lives. He was also a Christian, and at my point of deep agnosticism in the '80s, his Christian beliefs were oddly one of the things that raised a big red flag. However, Cayce taught that so long as one accepted Jesus Christ as Savior in one of their lives, one would be saved. Using the Jesus-Melchizedek connections as a starting point, but apparently not considering what learned theologians call "theophany"', he wove a sort of biblical proof for his beliefs that even to an agnostic seemed a bit tenuous.

I played with the possibilities raised by Edgar Cayce for the better part of a decade, aided and abetted by Dr. Gene Scott, who believed that total truth was realized by using the Bible as a foundation, but by gestalting in the teachings of other fields, resources, and disciplines.
I didn't learn about Cayce from Dr. Gene, but he did cite him from time to time, also teaching from the apocryphal book of Enoch.

Today, of course, I believe what the Bible clearly states, that it is appointed unto man to live once, then judgment. Some of the similarities HWA and the post-HWA wannabes encourage their followers to see between themselves and particularly powerful Biblical characters are most likely just examples of a person acting behind the valence of a recognized strongman.


Anonymous said...

I know this generates a diversity of conscious and unconscious emotions and opens the door to speculation regarding its associated psychological and spiritual relationship.

One problem we face today is the fact that Christian Theology is a not and never was a simple unified system that has all of the answers to the many questions regarding the history of people and events that has contributed Christianity. The early writings and verbal communication included a lot of disunity prior to and after the recorded words we have in the bible today.

A Christian is a human being that is the creation of a lifetime of conscious and unconscious thoughts and actions that have molded and shaped a personal wholeness different than any other “person”.

We live in a world that has diversity and there is a diversity of Christian churches that has evolved and is still evolving. We cannot change the disunity and diversity, but we can make a concentrated effort to understand and accept differences as a normal process in human development, which can contribute to greater understanding of meaning and purpose in human life.

I doubt the Dave Pack will replicate the influence of the one called the Apostle Paul. There is a desire in today’s society that hungers for a return to self, to a system of eternal values, to a disciplined life-style and to the true liberty of faith, which will free us from the ills of mindless conformity.
A. Boocher

Joe Moeller said...

Apostle Dave??

No, its more like...

Apostate Dave!

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

DennisCDiehl said...

In the South here they call it ReinTARnation. lol

Douglas Becker said...

I think that once a carnation dies, that's pretty much it.

Steve Kisack said...

I think once you're IN your CAR in the NATION, you can't reenter.