Do you have a horror story of what it was like growing up in the Church of God movement? Do you have stories of spiritual, mental, physical abuse or sexual abuse? What was it like for you as a child to grow up in the church?
All stories are confidential and will not be seen by anyone here or on the Facebook page.
see original posting here
Good Morning Everyone !! We are officially started on the process of the Armstrong Documentary !!! I am attaching a link for everyone to go to and fill out, which will go directly to Ky and Mercedes (film producers). Honesty and integrity is a must in these forms! Ky and Mercedes will send out the waivers to individuals. Please remember a documentary of this caliber is not gonna be a couple month project. So please be patient and have the assurance that these ladies know what they are doing.
29 comments:
The internet isn't large enough to fill ALL the horror stories the ACOG has inflicted on people over the years.
I WANT TO BE A MOVIE STAR! ;-)
Actually, Leah Remini's series on Scientology has been a great success. A properly done Armstrong expose' film can have some commercial success too.
It would probably have a rating of "Hard R" ," no one under the age of 17 allowed without parent or guardian. Contains objectionable material, violence, nudity, profanity and adult situations, extreme discretion is advised".
I would like to know what pleasure you get dragging up memories that many people want to forget, or are you just sick?
Anon 10:58 AM, I cannot speak for others here, but one pleasure I get from this site is the sure knowledge (as depicted by posters like you) that it is making ACOG apologists squirm with displeasure. The gospel writer John tells us:
"For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17)
Where there is truth, there is Jesus Christ. Where there is an ACOG apologist, you can be sure there will be explanations of why the truth must be hidden. So, squirm away, Pharisees, as your filthy rags are being exposed on this website for what they truly are!
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Participating is also optional. Do the Jews forget the Holocaust (only the Holocaust deniers do that)? Does Japan forget Hiroshima? Does America forget 9/11? Pretending something didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't. Some people have to live with the post cult trauma for years others may have been able to easily get over it some with time but we are all not made up the same way.
Does Japan forget Hiroshima? Does America forget 9/11? Pretending something didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't.
Why does Russia forget they raped millions of Germans? Why does Poland forget they murdered tens or hundreds of thousands of Germans in the 1930s? Why do the Muslim Turks forget they killed 1.5 million Christians? Why do Americans forget they starved as many Germans to death?
Herb Armstrong has an expression on his face in the top photo as though he had just been gut-punched. Either that he may have had a bout of constipation.
Jn 1:14 And the Word was... full of grace and truth. (AV).
Ac 6:8 Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, (NIV).
“The fullness of Jesus Christ is an expression based on the conviction that Jesus himself was a man full of grace and truth (v.14), a phrase recalling the description of Stephen in Acts 6:8 (“full of God’s grace and power”) and the more common expression “full of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 6:3, 5; cf. Luke 4:1; John 3:34.
Lk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
1Jn 5:6b And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
“If the Spirit in Luke-Acts means “power” (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8), the Spirit in the Johannine writings means “truth” (john 4:23-24; 14:17; 15:26; 16:13; 1 John 5:6).
“ ‘Grace and truth’ is therefore a circumlocution for the Holy Spirit.
“The Spirit that rested on Jesus after his baptism now belongs to all his followers, for he is “he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit” (1:33).
Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
“God’s gift of the Jewish law, he says makes way for grace and truth, the gift of the Spirit through Jesus Christ.
2Co 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was,
2Co 3:8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
“The distinction is not between law and grace as contrasting ways of salvation, but between two gifts of grace: the law and the Spirit (cf. Paul in 2 Cor 3:7-18)” (J. Ramsey Michaels, John, NIBC, p.24).
Why is it important to examine our past? Because much of the same nonsense continues in the PRESENT! There has NOT been a complete and thorough repentance, in fact, some of the most grievous wrongs and just plain idiocy is current right now!
The old "12 Step Program" had the following points in regards to problem behaviors and how to rectify them . They are not being applied in the current COGS...
***Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
***Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
***Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
If such an occurrence were to completely happen, then, and only then, can there be some healing.
Christ publicly exposed the sinful attitudes and sins/crimes of the Pharisees. One of the reasons He gave was "beware of the Pharisees.."
There is no such thing as the right to privacy when it comes to crimes against others.
It is funny how quick people will defend a sick system. But it should be no surprise, really.
based on the questions it's obviously going to be a hit piece, but then it would have to be in order to sell...no money, no "documentary"....
those outside the Church will never understand the Church.
I think a documentary is a good thing. Connie is right, these groups are still continuing the nonsense and are worse in some ways than they were under HWA. Pack for example with his current idea of common and says he thinks it's commanded. It's pure extortion and definitely is a "commandment of man". Other groups have the things they do as well. Hopefully a documentary will show people who have not been involved with the cogs that they need to stay clear of all of them and will understand why. I'm beginning to think that it might not be a bad idea for the churches to held accountable and have the tax free status revoked. As far as I know none of the cog's run any kind of soup kitchen, housing program, clothing bank or any other type of charitable activity. I've had a very hard time finding in the NT where Christ said that proof of an apostle is how much money he can raise to build compounds with new houses and office buildings and such for themselves. I'm sure the families that are living in their cars are warmed, well fed and secure knowing this.
those outside the Church will never understand the Church.
Neither will ex-members who were only there to escape the tribulation.
The documentary will likely be about as accurate as the Fox hit piece on the PCG. But nobody will care as long as it makes the church look bad.
At one time, I might have considered participating. However, the information needs to be current and contemporary in order to be most effective. The older the experiences are, the more lightly they are taken. Good classic activism functions best when it deals with conditions that are urgent right now.
Also, I’ve done as our critics have admonished us to do. I’ve recovered from it. My choice of words, there. “They” always say “get over it”, which implies that the problem resides with the defrauded or abused. “Blessed are the spat upon, the shat upon, the ratted on.” (II Simon and Garfunkel 1:3)
BB
I think you overrate the appeal of that article. COGlodytes aren't really that interesting overall.
Just like Pulp Fiction
Hello it's easy for the oppressors to forget their crimes but those who are at the end of receiving the affliction will hardly forget. Who do you expect to suffer the most pain the rapist or his victims?
The internet isn't large enough to fill ALL the horror stories the ACOG has inflicted on people over the years.
Or all the lies told about the ACOGs by its victims and critics.
One of the reasons He gave was "beware of the Pharisees.."
So why are Christians today so oblivious of their manipulations?
A current issue is a 'minister' in the Guardian Church of God, David Antion, who supports a known serial child molester, Philip Shields.
Child molestation is much bigger than how many soup kitchens and clothes closets are being operated for the public.
Does getting an known child molester the position of giving sermons alarm anyone?
Or is being a movie star (Connie) :[ more important? (Lana Turner??)
Maybe Connie could conduct a documentary on Philip?? I have some stuff she could start with, like molesting little girls....
Byker Bob, a very current issue in the US leadership is sexual misconduct of the leaders. Is an existing 'sermon giver' with a known past as a child molester in the Guardian Church of God current enough?
Instead of going after a dead man, why don't we pick the ones (leaders with moral conduct issues) in the current divided Churches of God? Very current, this issue is. It is a very hot topic of US leaders. Should be a red hot topic in the Churches of God???
If not, why not?
And Connie should know from the 12 step program, that drunks should not be in bars or bartenders. Should known child molesters in Churches of God be given the same opportunity to repeat the past with more little girls by preaching as if their conduct modeled what is appropriate with God and man?
This is a red hot topic and extremely current.
Concerning the life long effects of child molestation of young girls and the correlation to suicide attempts, Davidson (1996) reports, "Conclusions: Sexual assault is associated with an increased lifetime rate of attempted suicide. In women, a history of sexual trauma before age 16 years is a particularly strong correlate of attempted suicide."
I think the most uneducated of readers here understand what this means. And I can not think of any issue that is more (In Your Face) and relevant than this. A soup kitchen or a place to get some clothes is so insignificant when one considers the life long effects of sexual assault on a young child over a life time. And letting someone with 20 years of history in sexual deviance continue to be a 'sermon giver' and solicit tithes in the Churches of God is such a hideous eye sore it is only unseen to those who chose not to see and are blind themselves
.
Reference: Davidson, et al. (1996). The Association of Sexual Assault and Attempted Suicide Within the Community. Retrieved December 27, 2018 from https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/497597
Anonymous 9:39, I would remind you that I left in 1975 when Father God and Jesus Christ passed on the opportunity to validate HWA as their own. HWA had spoken presumptuously. Sometime in 1955, HWA booked a personal appearance for Jesus to take place in 1975 apparently without clearing it with Jesus first. The ACOGs have been indulging in all manner of excuses and prognostications since that disappointment, still expecting Jesus to honor HWA’s promises, and Jesus doesn’t validate those people either.
At the time I left in 1975, I’d been involved with the church for 20 years, and thankfully, pedophilia was not a known issue at that time, especially amongst the ministry. We certainly had no inkling of HWA and Dorothy. I think the worst examples of ministerial misconduct up to that point involved GTA. I had heard rumors of a minister somewhere in the south being brought home to his wife late one night dressed to the nines in womens’ clothing, and there was the occasional affair that came into the open, but certainly no covering for active ministerial pedophiles. Phillip Shields was a young Imperial kid, a younger brother of one of my classmates, while I was at AC. I also knew of no stalkers. I knew of several people in Pasadena who had “been homosexual prior to coming into the truth”, and a couple unwed mothers, but these were clearly different times, less complicated than what is reported here today.
That’s why I believe that people with recent experience in the abusiveness of Armstrongism would be more effective participants in the documentary. If there are still teenagers getting the crap beat out of them multiple times per day and being deprived of their meals “in the name of Jesus”, let that be part of the expose. If you have solid evidence that certain ministers or members are pedophiles, that needs to be part of the documentary. Outside of a few stalwart family members, I don’t even know any current members of the ACOGs, and haven’t for at least three decades.
This documentary is indeed a momentous and historic event, and needs to have the right people participating.
BB
That is something else, I can tell you that most of what I came across in criticism of the cogs turned out to be true. I know many people in the church of God knew about the many bad things that took place. When I was in a Cog I believed that you couldn't believe anything anyone said about the Church, they were bitter,influenced by Satan,rebellious or deceived or something along those lines(we were taught to think that way). After a series of events I witnessed, I did my own digging and found out it was actually me who was ignorant towards allegations and past members cries. I sat down with a dedicated longtime member, who gives sermonettes staunchly, and asked him to be honest with me,the horror stories I heard I went through several he confirmed them to be true but requested I didn't tell anyone he said anything to me, his reaction shocked me he was actually afraid of looking bad to others for telling me the truth, he didn't want to appear as a trouble maker(I appreciated his honesty nonetheless). Thought stopping was used by Cultic groups like the Moonies, it involved programming members to cast out any criticism of the group...for example by making them rehearse phrases, or instilling in them the fear that it is an attack from Satan. Another Sign of an Abusive church is the fact that there will be a sea of horror stories, of abuses that are documented and recorded widely in printed and or digital media(not just a handful)...that's why Cultic groups keep telling their members to don't go on the internet and read negative things about their organizations, they actually succeed in controlling your critical thinking. They never fully deny their accusers but cast strong doubt on the trustworthiness of their critics to the point you don't even want to hear the oppositional voices(you don't know them and their character is prejudged for you). I realised as long as I was plugged into the idea that I was in God's only True Church and the ministers were Gods true ministers, nothing else mattered, from the time i had unplugged myself from that idea I could think more critically,be more open to oppositional views and shed my pre-conditioned automatic and dismissive attitude towards critics of the church. The Sad truth is that they are some-people in the Cogs that know the vast majority of these stories are true but still remain silent when these people are vilified from the pulpit. The same sermonnette giver that admitted to me that the many horror stories were true,also told me his father was a victim of something bad that happened in the Church, his father, left the church as a result and never came back (he had a personal experience) his explanation was that none of that matters because God's truth(as delivered by Mr. Armstrong) is what is important. After all That he poured out to me I was disappointed that he could go up on the pulpit and launch an attack on people who go on the internet and "air all their hurts about the Church", during one of his fiery sermonnettes. If I had only known what I know today, the whole story and history of The Cogs, I would have never became a member. Before many people buy products from Amazon they look at the critical reviews of past customers the good, but especially the bad so that they can make an informed purchse. Imagine the manufacturer saying to potential customers "don't listen to anything negative about our products,past customers that complain about our products are all just bitter,they are alot of past customers lying about the quality of our products,dont talk to customers that criticise our products or services they will decieve you." Unfortunately that is just
How many Cogs operate and they programm their members to embrace that same mindset.
8.45 PM
Good question. After reading several books on abusive Christianity, the pattern emerges that the combination of bible twisting and abusive cult manipulation is mentally overpowering. Peoples desire to please God and obey their Bibles is hijacked by unscrupulous churches, enslaving their members.
Unless one reads up on abusive cult ploys to gain a degree of mental armour, everyone is vulnerable.
We all know there was abuse within WCG and still is in within the wider ACOG movement. But there were good things also. A lot of good was done for a lot of people. I wonder if this project will tell any of those stories.
Anon @ 12/28 5;50 am...you're right re peoples vulnerability & again I'll add the matter of
ones' "scriptural ignorance" & being "unchurched" and therefore unable to recognize, counter/refute the practice of text-proofing & cherry picking. Good example would be of D. Packs LIE of Common, tithing & so on. Not to overlook his 130+++ lies of prophecy either. BTW-
the most effective tool used to destroy a persons' critical thinking ability was (to me) that
60 or so lesson BC course. A Brain washing & indoctrination process with such LONG lasting
damage for sure. :-(
The longest-lasting part is not the information or “facts” presented. It’s not too difficult to dispel those. The correspondence course, along with the sermons, booklets and articles taught members “how to think”.
Unfortunately, long after the “facts” have been repudiated, the “how to think” aspect persists. Until a person deals with that, he’s going to be fodder for every conspiracy theory, and every fringe idea, that comes along. He’s going to continue believing that ad hominem attacks invalidate authorities on various subjects, and that the further right you become on the political spectrum, the closer to correct you become. I also pity the individuals who have not learned a greater system of ethics than those taught in Armstrongism.
BB
Post a Comment