From an LCG source:
LCG fired 2 ministers today. One was a long-standing COE member. The members are outraged. These 2 were extremely loved and in charge of the youth ministry. Sheldon was in charge of their camps (which just wrapped up). Weston is citing masks as the reason (comical and lame) but we all know that’s just the pathetic excuse they’ve come up with.
Sheldon Monson Jason Fritts
August 7, 2020
Dear Brethren,
It is with a sad heart that I must announce that Sheldon Monson and Jason Fritts are no longer in the ministry of the Living Church of God. We spent four and a half hours on Monday of this week with both of them discussing differences over masks, singing, how faith is exercised, and a few other issues. Then we held a Council of Elders meeting yesterday with Mr. Monson and 16 other members and advisors of the Council for another four and a half hours. Today Dr. Douglas Winnail and I talked with Mr. Monson on the phone and he agreed that we have come to a parting of ways. We also spent more than two hours with Mr. Fritts and could not reach an agreement on these subjects.
We do not have personal animosity toward either of these men. Mr. Monson has been a faithful minister for many years and Mr. Fritts, though younger, has also served faithfully for a number of years. We want to make this breach between us as painless and amicable as possible, but it is impossible as an ordained minister to hold different views of how to conduct services during this temporary time of stress and not cause division, no matter how sincerely held those views may be. Even without intending to do so, this causes confusion and fragmentation among members of the Church. It is important to understand the reasons for some of the decisions the Church has made and that were confirmed by 16 longtime ministers yesterday in the Council. And let me assure you that these are not all “yes men,” as those of you who know them can attest. We truly wanted to find a way to work through our differences so that we all speak the same thing, as Paul admonished in 1 Corinthians 1:10.
We will explain the doctrinal issues and biblical principles in the services livestreamed from Charlotte this Sabbath to North America and believe that the overwhelming majority of you will understand. The Bible is replete with admonitions concerning how God views division and those who cause division, and is just as clear about the wisdom of avoiding such individuals. This does not mean that we see each other as enemies. If anything, we should pray for one another with a sincere heart, that they may be able to walk with us in unity in the near future. But for now, we are left with no other choice but to agree to disagree.
Brethren, we must be unified as one body doing the Work God has given us to do. Christ warns us that a “house divided against itself will not stand” (Matthew 12:25). Our world is falling apart around us. Satan is very active in dividing the world right now, and he would love to do the same in the Church. God has blessed us greatly during this time, and we are doing our best to walk through the many open doors He has thrust on us in the last several months, so it is no surprise that Satan is attacking us now through sincere, well-meaning, but confused individuals.
Brethren, please do not get caught up in the politics of this world and issues such as whether to wear a mask or not. Here is a letter from one of our members and what she sees:
Thank you for the work you are doing. Life today in this world is so different than I ever thought it would be, although I knew that these things would happen.
I am praying for you, please continue to pray for all of us in the work. This is truly a difficult time, and it may be a time when God is sifting the wheat from the tares again.
I am beginning to see division in the Church because of the dumbest thing ever, “masks.” I pray that we all see the one behind all of this and realize that nothing, absolutely nothing happens without God’s permission. It is so sad.
This is a trying time for all of us. Pray that we don’t allow ourselves to fall into Satan’s trap.
I see how Satan is trying to separate us (me) from the love of God. He is astute and we (I) must keep crawling to God for deliverance from Satan, the world, and ourselves. My biggest problem is me!
Life today seems bleak, please pray fervently that we are able to celebrate the Feast together this year and focus on God’s Kingdom, coming to replace this world’s kingdom.
May God bless you, your wife, and all my beautiful family in Christ out at headquarters and around the world. Thank you all for giving all you have to do God’s work. The magazines, letters, sermons, programs, Viewpoints, Whiteboards, Living Education, and so much more freely offered to us all are incredibly helpful.
God gives us many passages of scripture on how to handle matters of controversy in the Church. To say that you believe Jesus is the Head of the Church and then reject all the scriptures proving how He guides His Church when there are matters of controversy is showing a lack of faith in His leadership. Why is it, my friends, that we believe Jesus is active as the Head of the Church and guides the servants He has appointed to lead His Church only so long as they agree with us? Walking by faith is essential, but, brethren, we need to ask ourselves: Is it up to each person individually to define “faith” in terms of wearing or not wearing a mask and singing or not singing during this “present distress” (1 Corinthians 7:26)? Is it truly biblical? One not-so-peripheral issue in the first-century Church of God was circumcision. It was a big deal, where people had plenty of scriptural “evidence” on both sides. God provided that account in Acts as just one of many examples that teach us how Christ settles matters of controversy within His Body.
Paul instructed the divided Corinthian congregation, “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:1-2).
Some may wonder whether we will still have summer camps and the answer is an emphatic YES. We will have them as long as God permits us to do so! We have every intention to continue with our youth camps. I have spent 28 years working with our young people at our camps, and we have no intention of abandoning them.
Please be assured that, overwhelmingly, the membership is loyal and has faith in Christ to lead His Church. As all of us understand, it is our responsibility not to get caught up in disputes over masks and other matters, but to preach the Kingdom of God. Let us not walk in fear but in faith, boldly doing the Work set before us while there is still time.
Sincerely, in Christ’s service,
Gerald E. Weston
124 comments:
LCG members are not "outraged" by this, though "masks" are probably just a Weston pretext.
Fritts would never have been ordained several years ago if he hadn't been best friends with David Meredith. Fritts was in the party room when David got his second wife pregnant before marriage. He was never really "with the program" and fell out of favor when his best buddy David was no longer around to protect him.
Munson is hyperconservative about every old WCG doctrine except for the one requiring ministers to obey their superiors. Munson has no use for any human leader other than HWA, and he thinks that as an ordained minister he reports directly to Christ, not to any human church leaders. He expects church kids to defer to him, but he has never offered the same deference to his own leaders.
Weston is probably frightened that Munson and Fritts have infected LCG youth with these attitudes, but the truth is that most LCG young people see right through Munson and Fritts, just as they see right through Weston. There won't be a church crisis unless Weston provokes one.
Our pope acts like Munson and Fritts were leading a rebellion against them and out to destroy the church. They were not doing anything of the sort. Weston is all about control and will go to no ends in kicking out anyone who has the slightest disagreement with him. There are many ministers now who are in fear of their jobs because of the inappropriate and outrageous actions of Weston today. I now have no confidence in him or in Winnail.
That letter is chilling. It is not enough that you obey V̶l̶a̶d̶i̶m̶i̶r̶ Weston. You must not have a different opinion. That's a mind-control cult in action. Anyone who previously thought LCG was less of a cult than RCG or PCG should now be disabused of that notion.
Oh dear, the church is on the Fritts, er, fritz.
"Satan is attacking us now through sincere, well meaning, but confused individuals."
This statement is so juvenile. So every time someone disagrees with Weston, Satan is behind it. And Satan is manipulating these implied, weak willed, confused men. In my view, this is character assassination.
The other point is that 'unity' via conformity is way over rated. It's exalted above its place in the hierarchy of values. Much like the Pharisees exalting the Sabbath over healing.
Unfortunately, Trump has made the wearing of masks a serious bone of contention between folks on both sides of America's divide. What should be a common sense health measure has been turned into a crusade about personal freedom and responsibility by some folks. And, as we see evidence of this polarization all around us, it is not hard to imagine it existing within the Living Church of God. As with many other issues, the folks who wear masks often detest those who don't and vice versa.
It is also unfortunate that Armstrongism has NEVER understood what unity means within the context of the Church. True unity is based on love, mercy, forgiveness and humility - NOT on what is imposed from above by a governmental hierarchy! Moreover, Christ's Parable of the Tares makes plain that the separation of the grain from the weeds takes place at the end, not during the present age!
They can't go on kicking people out like this; aren't they down to like 1,000 or less now, like that other awful Armstrong-Anglo-Israel-cult the RCG?
Monson and Fritts are welcome to give their side of the story on this blog!
I wonder if the two guys had to sign non-disclosures in order to collect their final paychecks! That seems to be something LCG likes to have former employees sign.
True to form, LCG likes to bash and discredit those they fire or kick out. I laughed as Weston said he believes Christ is the active head of the church. Please! They have put Christ out a long time ago. Scripture states Christ stands at the door and knocks. How active is Christ when he stands on the outside?
As to faith, I don't need a cult to tell me what is of faith and what is not. Is this what will divide this church? Faith, or lack thereof?
No doubt, this is about control for Weston and Winnail. To disagree always seems to get one either fired, suspended, or disfellowshipped. What would they have done to Barnabas when he disagreed with Paul? Kicked him out? Discredit and destroy his reputation? We all know this is showing true love, right?
Saying the overwhelmingly majority of the membership is loyal to Weston and Winnail is foolish at best. Yes, many are loyal to the cult. But there are many who see the problem, which happens to be the ministry. Don't blame Satan guys! They need to look at themselves and repent before God starts to knock them all down like dominoes.
Boy...the non disclosure agreements must be flying off the printer this week! You'll never hear their side of the story when Weston and Winnail control narrative. And it's done under the threat that if you don't sign the non disclosure, you won't get your severance package AND we'll disfellowhip you! Btw, it's usually a two year agreement that you can't speak negatively or post on social media against the church. Bunch of grown men acting like bullies.
Weston: "a temporary time of stress"
The professional gold market: "double digits"
Hmm.
I'll take the word of the religious man.
Lets find out if this fountain of wisdom might have professional medical advice for me also.
Although I'm left to guessing the details of the minor question, technically of course Weston or the fired lads might be right that there is no scientific proof that masks stop the virus. However the wearing of masks is a powerful behavioral change mechanism, that indeed does halt the spread. Not in church buildings with singing though.
I expect millions of covid deaths this winter. All cosied locked up singing carols, watching the inaugaration of Trumps 2nd term.
Oh how lovely for brethren to dwell in unity. That verse indicates that everyone should order a "royal blue" one, with a streak of gold, NOW!
Nck
Every time one of these things happens, it's automatically exclaimed to be an attack from "Satan". Or, it's "God sifting His church", the wheat from the tares, etc. What they never tell you though is what it truly is, which is human beings disagreeing on an issue and refusing or being unable to come to a meeting of the minds or workable compromise, resulting in the parties no longer being able to work together effectively. And while Satan might sit back and laugh, we can hardly blame him for human stubbornness, stupidity, or unwillingness to get along. That's on us.
This letter is passive aggressive. "We do not have personal animosity toward either of these men... We want to make this breach between us as painless and amicable as possible,..." goes to "The Bible is replete with admonitions concerning how God views division and those who cause division, and is just as clear about the wisdom of avoiding such individuals." Which is it?? Is this just an easy going amicable we agree to disagree, or is this a these guys are causing division, and we are marking them?
The circumcision argument is also almost always trotted out, and Acts 15 is used as leverage to essentially tell people "We have issued our edict on the matter, so shut up." What they don't ever read is Galatians 2...
"Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, accompanied by Barnabas. I took Titus along also. I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I spoke privately to those recognized as leaders, for fear that I was running or had already run in vain. Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek.
This issue arose because some false brothers had come in under false pretenses to spy on our freedom in Christ Jesus, in order to enslave us. We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
But as for the highly esteemed—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—those leaders added nothing to me. On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted to preach the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. For the One who was at work in Peter’s apostleship to the circumcised was also at work in my apostleship to the Gentiles.
And recognizing the grace that I had been given, James, Cephas, and John—those reputed to be pillars—gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. They only asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do." (Galatians 2:1-10)
Paul apparently didn't see this meeting on the subject of circumcision as him going up to meet with the pope and his synod of bishops. And while he was perfectly willing to meet and discuss the issue, he also made it clear that he wasn't going to compromise on his own convictions. With God's help though, they did all come to an agreement and meeting of the minds on the issue.
We haven't been given the details here of all the issues discussed between Weston,his board, and Monson and Fritts. The fruits tell us though that a Godly meeting of the minds was not reached on whatever the issues were. As someone pointed out above, Paul and Barnabas also disagreed to the point that they went their separate ways for a time, but nowhere do we read of either counseling other Christians to avoid fellowship with the other, or implying the other was confused, or a tool of Satan. They simply disagreed.
Concerned Sister
Has Weston really fired two youth worker ministers over the wearing of face coverings. Yet the subject is vastly debated amongst much older men. But none of them get fired. Was their youth a factor in getting rid of them.
I find it hard to believe that a physical thing (like a mask has been such a hot button issue in both the UCG and LCG). These organizations have taught many doctrinal errors over the years. Now, that's something to be upset about!
The ministry (at times) has created their division by stupid things that they have said and done. Where is the outrage among the membership? Many who are sick and elderly probably shouldn't even be meeting with large groups, or if they are should probably be wearing masks. It's a personal decision. Yet, we must not forget that we are our brother's keeper.
Anyone who thinks this is about masks clearly doesn’t get how the church works. Weston has been looking for an excuse, keeping notes in his little black book, biding his time waiting And praying for a “reason” he felt the members would swallow Masks?! Seriously?! Nobody is buying this!
I wonder if they will be marked during the livestream today
To the commentators who says the church isn’t outraged lol
They are so outraged that Weston will spend their whole live-streamed sermon today trying to soothe them into submission.
What's really going on: They are trimming payroll due to falling income & membership!
Concerned Sister, I always enjoy what you say. I wish we could hear the other side, but, it doesn't make too much of a difference. It's just another squabble in another one of the false churches of Armstrong. Who cares what they say or do.
"Unfortunately, Trump has made the wearing of masks a serious bone of contention between folks on both sides of America's divide."
didn't take long for "it's Trump's fault" to be proclaimed.
while masks might offer a modicum of protection, it's not enough to make them mandatory for the entire population.....if you're worried about aerosol, you better make sure your eyes are sealed from the outside world too, because every time you blink you wash the virus right down into your nasal cavity.
any virus that collects on the surface of the mask is transferred to the hands by the constant touching and adjusting the people are doing...and from the looks of the ones I've seen, the same masks are being worn over and over....maybe that's why in the areas that require masks the infection rate is going up and up.....
the mask is nothing more than a Linus blanket, filth and all.
Apparently, anything that disagrees with the top leadership's position is disunity.
In Acts 15, James appears to be the one in charge. So much for Peter being chief.
It seems to me that Jesus said that they would not exercise authority over one another as the world does.
We are told to obey God rather than men, right?
Wow, this church is worse than scientology...😯
You’re wrong about a bit of this... and id love to have. A personal chat with you anytime you’re willing! Are you still a LCG member? My number is 346-291-0926 feel free to text or call!
1. No one was in the room when David conceived his first child
2. Jason was always “with it” even as a “friend” of David’s and others who were “partying” or not “with it” Jason was always on the straight and narrow and followed rules
3. David has nothing to do with Jason getting ordained
4. He become the youth director AFTER David was gone from the church so your idea of him falling out of favor is completely false
5. Most youth see through Sheldon and Jason? Most youth love them
Things you’re right about
1. Sheldon is uber conservative- I believe he stitched his one scrotum up with wine and honey once upon a time
2. His ideas of the youth deferring
Just to clarify
I know A LOT of facts regarding these people
I know them all personally though now estranged from most
I have zero loyalty to any of them and I despise the church and their ideas
But you through some personal stuff in there that is a lie
SING PRAISES TO GOD (you can't do it properly with a mask on)
Ps 100 {A Psalm of praise.} Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands. 2 Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing. 3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. 4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name. 5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
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Ps 149
1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints. 2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. 3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. 4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. 5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
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PS 95
1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. 2 Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.
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Ps 92
1 {A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day.} It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High: 2 To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night, 3 Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.
==============================
PS 81
1 {To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of Asaph.} Sing aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful noise unto the God of Jacob. 2 Take a psalm, and bring hither the timbrel, the pleasant harp with the psaltery. 3 Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. 4 For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob. 5 This he ordained in Joseph for a testimony, when he went out through the land of Egypt: where I heard a language that I understood not.
=============================
We praise and give thanks to God in our singing.
1. Hebrews 13:15-"By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of PRAISE TO GOD continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name."
2. Romans 15:9-"And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles and SING UNTO THY NAME."
3. Acts 16:25-"And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang PRAISES UNTO GOD: and the prisoners heard them."
Teaching and admonishing one another.
1. Ephesians 5:19-"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord."
2. Colossians 3:16-"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs and singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."
What are your thoughts? Will some be condemned for wanting to sing praises to God at services? Sing or don’t sing? What does scripture say? It's very clear! Come before his presence with singing.
Enough said..................
Civics review time-- FIRST AMENDMENT
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE thereof. "
However, 501c3 churches like the LCG will not do anything to upset the government, even when that government is violating
Constitutionally authorized LAW! Mandated Mask orders against churches are patently illegal!
Surely individuals can wear a mask at church if they want to, and no one would give them grief in doing so.
Protecting that 501c3 non profit status is the idol all such churches bow down to. Churches risk losing such status unless totally submitted to State Authority, whether right or wrong. Neither Fritts or Munson are more valuable than that , and they were naive in thinking that truth, or any argument was more powerful than protecting the money flow, or tax status.
Sheldon was not a yes man in this instance and Jerry fired him.
"Brethren, please do not get caught up in the politics of this world and issues such as whether to wear a mask or not."
This should not be a political issue - it is a health issue.
LCG claims to be following OT laws, but ignores the quarantine laws and principles.
They also ignore the second of the greatest commandments - to love your neighbor as yourself.
I figured it would take about a year to see how LCG did with Jerry, and it has. He has made his direction clear.
I hope a LCG member posts a summary of his sermon today.
It seems you don't have to be a "yes man" on the COE, you can be a "get the hell out of here man". (Woman excluded of course.)
Weston, Weston, you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed and Sheldon and Jason have chosen that which is better, and it will not be taken away from them.
"All speaking the same thing" when it is a one way street only inhibits the production of fruit, but makes for a nice looking leafy tree.
Has a familiar ring. This is the classical model for the proliferation of Armstrongist splinter groups. There is a disagreement, followed by an inquest by some august denominational body, followed by some people either being ejected or resigning, its never easy to tell which. The grapevine in this tiny Apocalyptic Millerite denomination will then crackle with energy for a while. Sabbath services will transiently take on a new sheen of interest. Then after all this, a new splinter may take form under the direction of the ejected. What do you really do otherwise, if you are an unattached Apocalyptic Millerite minister?
The differences between the Jerusalem Conference and this tempest in a teapot are many. The most salient is that the Jerusalem Conference participants came together in a mindset of harmony directed by the Holy Spirit. The Apocalyptic Millerite ministers come together in a spirit of division even over the smallest of things. My way or the highway is their way.
So does the firing of Monson and Fritts mean that they have been marked and disfellowshipped from LCG too?
@anon 8:34PM
Yes, the RCG is down to a low number of members as well. But ... David Pack keeps telling the members that this is because of prophecy: after all it is truly ‘a little flock’!
If anything you have to admire these COG leaders for their ability to turn something negative into a positive that proofs their ‘church’ is the ONE
Exie - I was glad to hear your positive words about Jason.
I only heard him speak once - he was funny and interesting and lively.
I wished they would have him give sermons to us to relieve the boredom.
(I finally relieved the boredom when I quit attending.)
The government cant mandate a mask, but a business can. If they are meeting at a hotel and that hotel mandates mask to allow the church to hold services then you would have to wear a mask.
I agree the government can not mandate masks, but a business can. If where they are holding church services is in a hotel and they mandate a mask. Then you would have to wear one.
The LCG has far more encounters with Satan than it does with Jesus!
So much for Peter being chief.
And Paul said he told off Peter "to his face". Imagine what would would have happened to anyone who came close to doing that to HWA? Or DCP? Or any COG "leader"?
@ Anon 6:30 AM quoting "Colossians 3:16-"
How about Colossians 2:16? ('The sabbath is done away with')
I listened to the Gerald Weston "weekly update", posted Thursday before LCG's Council of Elders met.
He criticized the USA for becoming too "individualistic", and noted there are "matters of controversy" based on Deut. 17:8-13.
"People can be on board. Or, I suppose, they can go elsewhere. We don't want that to happen," he said. "But we're going to have peace in the church and harmony...." As opposed to being "tainted by our upbringing...." of "rugged individualism."
Any update on what Westons said in his sermon today? I wasn't about to sit at home and listen to it. We took the kids to the park and enjoyed the day. We didn't feel the need to listen to a depressing whining excuse laden lecture from Weston. That's all we ever seem to get from him anymore.
I am absolutely sickened to hear the the Living Church of God (s/b synagogue of satan!) fired 2 ministers over wearing face masks!
Seriously? You morons actually have not done any research into the subject!
Wearing a mask has NOTHING to do with protecting your health or the health of anyone else! It all has to do with compliance!
satan hates God's creation! We are made in the image and likeness of our Creator. satan loves you to wear a mask and cover up that likeness.
Masks were used to shut people up, to humiliate people, they were used in satanic rituals, they were used for slaves!
MASKS ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL!
Gerald Weston's letter ended with Sincerely, in Christ's service.
What a joke! S/b, sincerely, in satan's service!
Honestly, I won't be surprised to learn that the LCG has been infiltrated with jesuits!
Do yourself a favour and change the name of your organization to the Dying Church of God!
"Any update on what Weston said in his sermon today? I wasn't about to sit at home and listen to it. We took the kids to the park and enjoyed the day. We didn't feel the need to listen to a depressing whining excuse laden lecture from Weston. That's all we ever seem to get from him anymore."
Why are you still attending LCG??? You don't respect Mr. Weston, skip services to go the park and then troll HWABanned to find out what he said in his sermon. Just leave! If you want some good company, just find out who the "LCG source" is who posted Mr. Weston's letter and team up with him - you are both living a lie - sttending a church and attacking it at the same time -think there is a name for people like you - a few names come to mind...like tares...hypocrits, but the one that suits you both the best is pathetic!!
Now now. Let the independent minded have room to voice their discontent. If you want to kiss the ring then that is your prerogative but then again you shouldn’t be on this site. Your minister and Mr. Weston wouldn’t approve. Be a good sheep and go back to your fenced in pen where you are sheared with three tithes.
Keep paying and praying as your “work” goes nowhere.
As a former LCG member who's aware of how corruption begins and ends in the church, it sounds as if some members complained to head office about Munson and Fritts being too loose with the mask requirement (because the elders wanted the members to be unmuzzled while singing on the Sabbath, thus offending the weaker members who are more afraid of viruses than worshipping God with song). When that happens it's anyone's guess as to how the chief council will respond because there are so many lax and corrupt men in the ministry today. If they don't like the member's disposition the member won't be heard but, if there is a sincere and popular voice appealing to them that touches their sensitive nerves emotionally, there is a good chance that the ministers may be aroused with a self-righteous "let's stand up together to protect our tithe-payers from these overzealous elders who are trying to enforce singing on the Sabbath. How dare they create a circumcision-like controversy that could potentially divide the church! After all, Christ cares more about unity than worship-singing on the Sabbath, doesn't He". This is my guess.
If my guess is right, the solution is found in Rom 14:3. You speak to that church and tell the members to stop judging the elder's imperative, and you tell the ministers to stop despising the mask-wearers, noting that the church setting is if off-limits to human governments because God has made Christ its head. (If hotels have the right to enforce mask-wearing, go find another meeting hall that doesn't!) But if envy and strife escalate (James 3:16), it will turn out for the worse for all parties, i.e., the weak members will get weaker, the elders will get flustered and tempted, and the chief council will lose patience and shoot themselves in the foot for their inability to make peace.
I'm wondering the same thing too. I know Sheldon, but, not too well. I hope he is doing okay. From my perspective he's a very nice man.
In the photo attached to this post, does Weston look like an effeminate demon?
I see evil in those eyes.
Perhaps the bent over prophet, bOb, could give a ruling on the matter.
To 5:44, Weston was a bad choice for LCG from the beginning for several reasons. When I heard from a good member that he refused to cast out a demon from his brother, I knew then and there that there was big trouble coming. If an elder cares, he will do it. Didn't Christ? Thus, I wasn't surprised when he disfellowshipped me by e-mail, without giving me a reason! Like many elders, old or young - it doesn't matter - they back the side that is politically advantageous or emotionally appealing to their senses. I warned LCG in e-mails about him but it fell on deaf ears. As far as they are concerned, THEY, the MINISTRY, are the CHURCH, and they don't take your opinion seriously unless you carry enough political or economic clout to make them notice.
The problem is the system. When a human organization is viewed as and labeled the "church" or "true church" and those who call themselves "ministers" come to see themselves as the only legitimate representation of said "church" or arbiters of "truth", it is no longer just a matter of personal conviction or belief in Jesus Christ that makes one a member of the "church". It has more to do with what club you are loyal to, or in some cases, which one signs your paycheck. In the case of LCG Gerald Weston is seen by those loyal to his particular club as a pope figure and his board of elders are his council of bishops. They give themselves different titles, but their perception of their own authority over the brethren is the same. One of the issues Weston addressed in his sermon was the idea of brethren visiting "other groups" for the Feast. This is seen as something sinful. Why? Because they would be making an independent decision acting in defiance of their Pope and his bishops, which of course is equated with "God's government", because he sees himself as the only legitimate representative of that government.
Once a man, even if he starts out as well meaning, decides to start his own "church" a different mindset begins to take hold of him. He takes possession of the organization he has started and begins to view those who choose to attend that organization as his "members" or "members" of the organization. The problem with this mindset is that it goes well beyond the biblical definition of a "member" because a "member" in the Bible is simply a member of one body, and that is Christ's. Romans 12:5 And Christ's body, assembly, or community is not synonymous with any human organization controlled by men. While members of His body might or might not attend a particular organization or even visit multiple organizations, that organization does not own those members, because those members belong to God, who has one body and places individuals in His body as He sees fit. Peter was told by Jesus to feed HIS sheep. John 21:15-17 That doesn't mean that Peter then became the owner of the sheep. He was simply supposed to be one of their caretakers. And as a fellow sheep, which he was, he was supposed to set an example of godly leadership, to serve among them, not rule over them. He did not become Chief Shepherd, Pastor General, Presiding Evangelist, or whatever other lofty title one might dream up. Those titles are exclusive, and only Jesus Christ can fill those shoes. Those who serve Christ in whatever function He places them in, according to the gifting he gives them are only supposed to be caretakers and servants among God's flock, which again isn't synonymous with any one human organization.
These gifts, which some view as positions of hierarchy, that we are constantly told give some men the right to elevate themselves over, lord or exercise authority over others are not for that purpose. Matthew 20:25-28 1Peter 5:2-4 They are supposed to be gifts and functions that build the body up and equip everyone to function, work together, and minister to one another, so that the whole body grows up together and becomes unified and cohesive. They are simply supporting ligaments,and other body parts,as we all are. They are not the head,which is Christ. Ephesians 4:11-16
Instead their use has been distorted and perverted to serve those who think they are in power. They have been used to browbeat, scatter, and confuse the sheep. They have been used to promote a club or "church" mentality of one following "Paul" and another waving the flag of "Apollos". 1Corinthians 3:3-11 Because again, the sheep are viewed as possessions of the institution, club, or "church", rather than possessions of God, who these people are supposed to be serving.
Concerned Sister
Are the recent quakes in North Carolina, home of LCG, God's commentary on the actions of demon-eyed Weston? bOb, the bent over prophet, can read the signs and knows the truth!
I love the people with the long comments about the efficacy (or lack there of) of face masks.
Read this 3 times: This had nothing to do with face masks!
Anyone who knows how LCG operates knows this.
The face masks were merely an excuse.
Here's how it works... Weston has, no doubt, been annoyed with the fact that Sheldon isn't a 'yes man' for years. He's been bidding his time and mounting a thousand grievances against him (and of course not forgiving trespasses at Passover in true Armstrong form).
Weston finally couldn't take it anymore so he called these men to HQ and said, "You're fired but since you served the work (puke) for so long, I'll let you come up with the narrative for your departure".
This mask thing is total BS. Only the people drinking the Kool Aid full tilt don't see past it.
I feel soooooo sorry for these men and their wives and families. In the long run they have been set free frotiom an utterly evil association. But right now, everything they know, all their friends, their entire world, has been ripped away from them. They will assume that friendships that have spanned over a decade will be safe because they love these people. But the truth is that people in LCG wouldn't know unconditional love it it bit them on the ass. They worship a God of purely conditional love and so that is all they know. They will be shunned, isolated and alone. There will be many heartbreaks along the way as they see the true colors of LCG members. It's a hard road. I pray for their comfort and hope you will too.
This feels like a scene from Sleeping Beauty. Weston asks the mirror who's the fairest in LCG and the mirror replies "Sheldon Monson" and so Weston casts an evil spell to put him down out of jealousy and ego.
How long until these 2 start their own church?
Because, ya know, that's what people do in Armstrong COGs!
It's one of the most predictable patterns around.
It is hilarious to see things happening in LCG that I personally predicted would happen several years ago. This organization is cursed with a curse, and they do NOT know the true God. They are a human money making corporation--NOT a church! Truth is... after I quit, their income and "work" began to collapse and they slandered me and persecuted me... yet I did them no harm in return. I know their dirty little secrets, and if I wanted to, I could spill the beans on so many of LCG's "leaders" it would make their heads spin. RCM used to call me for advice about certain matters... RFA asked me to personally solve issues with RCM... DSW called me after I quit to ask for information... I got WGS hired as presenter of the TW telecast... Leaders of other COG groups contacted me privately about certain matters... even David Pack tried to hire me--but I said NO. Believe me when I say, I know these so called "leaders." Dibar Apartian said he was proud of me before he passed away, and those who knew him, know he didn't throw around compliments for the fun of it. There is MUCH more that I could say, but I got better things to do, just know that LCG is not a godly organization--Weston and his fellow phonies in Charlotte are a disgrace, and need to seriously repent.
Is that NO with a capital O?
nck
To anonymous August 10, 2020 at 8:11 AM, if they are that bad why would you keep it to yourself knowing there are people unawares who might suffer in the future?
Either you're being honest, which means:
1. You don't care about people, only spouting off in an attempt to prove yourself (to yourself) how "right" you are. Or,
2. You're afraid to reveal your identity for some reason. No reason I can think of that would be justified. Why post anything at all if you're worried about yourself or someone you "care about"?
Or, your full of something else besides honesty.
Right or wrong reasons for their "departures", many people are hurt and disoriented in this process. Should we not pray that the wrongs are righted, and for the members to make good decisions about who to or not affiliate with. Church splits are very painful.
There are a few reasons why I don't use my name--first I have family still involved closely with that cult, unfortunately. I don't want them having to deal with any backlash, they don't need that right now. Secondly, I just want to make a simple point, and don't want to make it about me--been there, did all that already years ago. I rarely write on sites like this or anywhere for that matter. Every word I said is true--God knows it... don't need to prove it to anyone else. It's time for people to wake up, and get out of these cults--they need to figure it out on their own!
The Sabbath is dine away?
Good luck with that one!
If you actually believe that, you are retarded, demented and satan inspired!
I agree whole heartedly that if you feel that way about the leadership of that demented organization, you should leave.
However, what has been said about Weston is accurate and the organization is a cult!
I was unfortunate enough to have attended The Living (s/b changed to Dying) and I was appalled with their arrogance thinking that they were the best! Rev 3:14 comes to mind when thinking about LCG!
Your point is understood. Those of us wcg longtimers are well aware of the antics and self righteous behavior of the ministry, especially those at headquarters. There are two social casts in these groups 1. The ministry and 2. The peasantry who send their money every month to support group 1. Over the decades Ive seen supposedly well respected ministers acting in ways that you just would not believe unless you saw it for yourself. Problem is that most church members only see the shiny and polished side of the ministry and not their true colors. Btw Im pretty sure I know who you are but I will respect your right to privacy. If you are who I think you are, then yes you certainly were in a unique position to have seen and heard a lot over the years. I remember that letter being read to our congregation about you from charlotte headquarters and I was friends with you on facebook back then. If that is who you are, but I think it is. I remember that your posts would often get over 100 likes and tons of comments on facebook. Glad to see that you are among the awakened and out of the cog lunacy.
I know exactly who you are and what position you held at LCG headquarters, but don't worry I won't give your name, I respect your privacy and know some of what was said and done to you that was very wrong. I met you at the feast of tabernacles in myrtle beach, back in 2008 or 2009 I think. I remember Richard Ames was giving the sermon that day and during it he mentioned your name and asked you to stand up in front of everyone there, over 1,000 in attendance that year, and told all of us that we should meet you and get to know you before the end of that feast, which I did. Ames said how important you were to the work of God, and praised you a lot. Well I met you and you were surrounded by a bunch of other church members trying to meet you as well, but you were very welcoming and spoke with each of us and I enjoyed our conversation. Anyways, I was sad when years later Rod Meredith told us all to treat you as an enemy of the church, which was actually unbiblical. I know there were disagreements over doctrine and certain things happening at LCG headquarters. I know this is you, and hope you're doing well. I departed LCG about a year after all that, and I actually think you were correct regarding a lot of what you wrote about online, regarding doctrine. Anyways long time no see ha ha.... take care.
Oh.
I'm sorry.
Anonimy seem to know you.
I assumed you were the other former lcg bull shit artist.
So I do get the 9:29 vibe.
Who writes a comment like, "I came to power in 1933, chamberlain made a deal with me, I have a house in Berchtesgaden, and invaded Russia. I'm not gonna tell you my name, since I still have family in the organisation, but I was right about everything."
Some serious psychological issues.
I mean, tell us about Munich 1920 or shut up,really. This is a good blog to vent and shout and rage though, but one looses credibility somewhat when one shows pictures in a white strapped shirt. Instead of sympathy, listeners start garnering a set of pills.
It sounds like HWAs autobiography, starting with the claim, it's not about me.....
I think there are possiblities to inform people of dangerous characters, without revealing personal info.
On the other hand, info on how smelly taylor swifts socks are or how annoying her snoring and how unkind she treated an employee just before going on stage for me just show that person is human too.
I think I made my point about all phonies out there.
Get us the info and stop patting your back on the compliments dibar a party man supposedly gave you or any double blessing one may have received since it was sunday and the drug store was closed.
Nck
Nck
Hello AnonymousAugust 10, 2020 at 8:11 AM,
Can you give any details about the current state of LCG? People close to me claim it is thriving, with new people entering all the time. I don’t suspect they are lying and I cannot imagine that is the truth. I think they are so brainwashed they believe every word the ministers utter and the ministry tries to foster the illusion that the church is being blessed. The people I know seem to be dealing with an ever shrinking circle of church friends. I get the impression that each Saturday must be a depressing and lonely time at church - but they brag about it. Any truthful details would be greatly appreciated.
One reason I want details about membership numbers is that numbers are facts - if I can catch LCG lying about numbers, the deceived people close to me have to deal with that factually. However, I know most brainwashed people can excuse anything. One LCG minister told me that his church was experiencing tremendous growth - I do think he was lying. I also think that LCG goes to great lengths to promote a perception of growth while avoiding the presentation of actual numbers. If the numbers were favorable, they would not stop bragging about those numbers. About nine months ago, a newcomer actually showed up at church - everyone told me about her - it was so thrilling for them. I just cannot imagine what kind of person doesn’t fully vet the COGs on the internet before succumbing to brainwashing.
Is there any decent minister in this group?
Anonymous at 4:24....why do new people come into the church without vetting? Because the beliefs, plan of God, Sabbath, no eternal burning point to a merciful, fair God. That over rides many of the knucklehead leaders...I've learned to separate the man from the message over the years. There are still some decent caring Minister's scattered throughout the COG's.
8.26 AM
I have the 'beliefs, plan of God, Sabbath, no eternal burning point to a merciful, fair God.' And I stopped attending church over 30 years ago. And zero knucklehead leaders or ministers to contend with. It's spiritual heaven.
I have the 'beliefs, plan of God, Sabbath, no eternal burning point to a merciful, fair God.' And I stopped attending church over 30 years ago. And zero knucklehead leaders or ministers to contend with. It's spiritual heaven.
If you have the beliefs, why do you believe God called YOU in this age without calling everyone else? Aren't you supposed to DO SOMETHING with your calling? Or do you believe God gives some people two or three chances for salvation, while others get just one? Congratulations on eliminating the knucklehead ministers and leaders from your life, but doesn't spiritual heaven come AFTER you've played your part in the ekklesia?
@Anon 4:24 "Is there any decent minister in this group?"
Yes, but there are two less now.
A local elderly woman is not wearing a mask and says she's protected by her faith. But YOUR mask isn't meant to protect YOU, it's to protect others!
That and LCG's latest streak of blinding incompetence... as the doctor in the the final scene of Bridge on the River Kwai said, "Madness! Madness!"
"Unfortunately, Trump has made the wearing of masks a serious bone of contention between folks on both sides of America's divide."
That would be the MSM's politicizing in my opinion. I know people who dislike Trump who refuse to wear a mask. Besides, Trump has NEVER discouraged me from wearing a mask!
I have the true beliefs(not old covenant beliefs), no sabbath because Yashua did away with it(so says the book of John). God's plan? We will see. It certainly isn't wrapped up in the sabbath and "holydays".
Anonymous Anonymous said...
@Anon 4:24 "Is there any decent minister in this group?"
Yes, but there are two less now.
WHAT?!!!! They are all liars. They know that tithing is a lie. They know that the false doctrine of "ordained ministers" is a lie. ALL of them have deceived people who follow them and give them obeisance and money.
pressfortruth.ca has a more scientific approach to masks than the liars in the mainstream media and the churches should listen to them and the expert virologists they get information from, not the dumb ass GPs that advise governments.
10.59 AM
There you go again with your preconceived ideas about stay at home Christians. The eunuch that was baptized in Acts 8:36-38 was a independent Christian, as were many others. One does not have at attend services and be under the thumb of a minister to DO SOMETHING. The ministers are not the gate keepers of peoples salvation though they act that way. I remind you that the basic definition of a Christian is one who follows Christ. It is not one who "follows Christ" with a middleman minister acting as Christ's vicar, which is the church tradition. Which is usurping Christ's role. You obviously under estimate or ignore the oppressive cruelty of many ministers when some claim that they are in heaven after ditching church attendance. People experience the same reaction when they leave an emotionally abusive relationship.
I have been attending a mainstream church. I told the pastor I disagreed with one of the doctrines he preached about. He gave me a big hug on the front row of the church. It was weird but he wanted to express respect and good will. Peace is more important to him than we see doctrine in the same way. I still think I was right on right on the doctrine issue but he won the Christian fight! I cannot imagine anything like that happening in the LCG!
It's amusing to see anonymous people write in and ask why others are posting anonymously, while insinuating they shouldn't. Remove the beam from thine own eye please.
Many on here post under anonymity or pen names because we either still have family and friends within these groups, or in some cases because we ourselves still attend somewhere but want a way to expose some of the hypocrisy and wrong thinking among the leadership in hopes that we might foster change within the groups. I know in many cases that might be a lost cause, but hope springs eternal.
There are Christians in many different situations. Some have become so disenchanted with the system that they choose not to attend anywhere. Some stay home due to health issues, or because there is no local group they feel comfortable attending with where they live. Many of these people listen somewhere online. Others visit various groups. Those who disapprove of this call these people church hoppers. Still others attend primarily with one group, but do occasionally visit others when they have the opportunity or because they have family/friends in other groups. And then there are the die hard loyalists who have firmly chosen which man or group they are loyal to and view all others as infidels.
Navigating among these groups can be a sticky process, and we need to be careful about judging someone else's choice, if we haven't walked in their shoes. And to echo what someone wrote above, doing something doesn't necessarily require that you submit yourself to an abusive clergy. There has been many a poor shut in who has no other option but to pray for others, and that is what they do. I do personally feel that it benefits each of us to have fellowship and friendships with other Christians, but there are ways to accomplish that and still maintain God as your mediator. There are also ways to get involved with others and "do something" without declaring your undying allegiance to a man. We need to start by thinking outside the box we have been put in.
Concerned Sister
Concerned Sister
What is boils down to is that people have a right to privacy. For instance, Christ refused to answer the Pharisees question of whether He was the Christ. But this principle like many others, is rejected and not taught by the ministers since it places limits on their power over others. Anonymity is a right and no "good reasons" should have to be given for its exercise. That's what a right is.
Interesting how only independent outsiders can grasp this. The Hill Billy/Redneck splinter churches of HWA have robbed their members of such understanding.
Concerned Sister.
I called out a ridiculous poster who patted himself on the back, then posted, it's not about me. I now realize the same poster may have posted earlier, which makes his "affirmative" post a bit less ridiculous. As a matter of fact the same poster may have posted all 76 postings here, if it werent for some using distinghuishing names.
I dont care about names. I care about people who claim "beneficial knowledge" posting like the next "prophet".
My other Concern.
You claim God as a mediator. Between what or whom, the flock and their minister, the split personalities on banned, whom does God mediate between?
Nck
Concerned Sister
I read the ridiculous posting again.
It said "I" 11 times in 11 sentences.
The next posting says "I don't want it to be about me."
I called out the juvenile nature of the posting, which may have been explained by earlier UNRECOGNIZABLE postings since they were are 100 percent anonymous.
I'm kinda sick of the "defense of being anonymous" everytime I and others point out that "unrecognizable" postings look inherently ridiculous, especially if important claims are done in an inherentl and recognizable contradictory fashion. No need to be a linguist. Just helping the blog to be more effective.
nck
I see as this as the suppression of individual opinions. No freedom of thought or opinions that stand in conflict with westons jack-booted authoritarianism can be allowed.
Joseph Stalin comes to mind...
“ It is with a sad heart...” Ha! Everyone know Jerry doesn’t have a heart. He is as cold as ice. Not a lick of compassion, forgiveness or empathy. Can anyone name one fruit of the spirit that they’d associate with him? I’ve known him for nearly 20 years and I’m drawing a blank.
This letter is filled with spin and BS, sarting with the 1st six words.
But LCG members blindly believe (or get kicked out) so I’m sure they will not ask questions and let this be a lesson to themselves. Bite your tongue a little harder, lower your gaze, sink down in your chair, don’t ask questions. If this can happen to Sheldon, it can most certainly happen to you. Submit and obey your masters LCG people!
I have it on good authority that Jason and Sheldon were disfellowshipped In LCG’s typical, truly cowardice fashion; via FedEx.
This is how they do it.
They don’t give you the respect of a face-to-face visit or even a phone call.
They send you a form letter and then refused to take your calls or answer your emails. They are accountable to no one and feel no responsibility to make any attempt to “go after the one “.
I’m quite certain that they knew they were going to disfellowshipped these guys before any of their meetings. The meetings were just a formality. If they had any balls, character or honor, they would’ve done it in-person on Monday before Jason and Sheldon left Charlotte. But LCG leadership has the poorest character of pretty much anyone I’ve ever encountered, so we can’t be too surprised!
Folks, I also know who the anonymous poster is, and I've known him for many years. He's not perfect but he's actually a genuinely good man. His post was made while frustrated and writing quickly--I know him, he does that when hurrying and frustrated. He has spent many years helping brethren, including widows and those in serious financial situations, to get back on their feet or as he did in my case back in 2011, helped me pay my rent and not get thrown on the street homeless for 2 months, until I got another job finally. NCK, you're judging him without truly knowing him, so shame on you! And by the way, he is actually one of the five most humble people I know. He has helped more people than most full time ministers, even though he's not ordained, and he has also suffered horrible and unjust persecution that you will never understand. LCG boomed because of him, I saw it happen. It wasn't about Meredith or anybody else there, just saying it like it is, even though a huge amount of others around him were jealous and constantly trying to cause problems--especially those ordained at HQ in NC, saw that also for years. Again, y'all have no idea what that man accomplished and what he had to deal with--no idea! So just chill and cut him some slack, he just wanted to warn folks about LCG and about their hypocritical leadership. He did that, now let's all just focus on THAT, and take the warning to heart.
How callous Anon 5:43 But kinda sums them up. Disfellowshipped by FedEx.
Wearing or not wearing of masks is a pathetic trap. Those younger men must have been targeted for awhile.
Nothing new under the sun.
Westons another soy boy attempting to run a church he inherited from a homosexual religious authority who ragged about homosexuals at every opportunity. Remember that the preacher who rags on about this subject the most might just have a skeleton in the closet - or a boy!
Agreed, he is not a perfect man, but who is? However he is an honest man and he cares about people, which is why he gets frustrated by those in positions of authority who don't use their positions to truly help and care for others. He mentioned those things about himself, not to exalt himself, but to answer the question, who are you to know the real character of these COG ministers (leaders). He answered that question, period. He told the truth, and didn't give a long detail of his accomplishments, he barely mentioned a few things. I worked under him at LCG, and he was the best manager I ever had in my life, actually got me a pay raise and pissed off RCM and others doing it, and he did it for me to be fair and just, because they had just ignored me when I asked. He stood in the gap many times, including telling RFA that he and RCM were wrong when they cruely fired a women there who was going through cancer. I was there when he told RFA in his office that it was wrong, when nobody else said a damn thing! Yes, he is a good man, and I'd listen to him any day before I'd listen to all the ministers who never seem to stand in the gap to protect anyone or are willing to tell the leaders that they're wrong right to their faces, justly and righteously. He is a fair and caring man, and he knows the BS that goes on at those so called churches. That's all I'm gonna say about it.
7:45
I agree.
I judged a man who used "I" 11 times in 11 sentences and then told us he didnt want "it" to be about him.
I'm sorry for being picky.
Nck
12.50 AM
Nck, the demonization of the word 'I' is a commie ploy. It's murderous, and no where taught in the bible. I assume you are ignorant on this point. So no, Concerned Sister in not being juvenile. Rather Nck needs to be better read.
So you are of sick of "defence of being anonymous." Excuse me, but anonymity is a right. As in sports, you need to learn to play by the rules.
Postings are inherently and recognizably contradictory? Nck, your sentences often lack the basic grammar structure of subject, verb, and predicate. This obfuscatory style of writing keeps you out of legal trouble, but is disrespectful to your readers.
NCK is so demanding and judgmental; which COG is he a leader of?
12:06
Nothing you said adresses whatcI said. You can read but do not understand basics. I didnt even adress concerned sister. I did adress the 11 times I poster.
Nck
NCK... I will refer you to the comments of 7:45 AM and 10:44 AM and leave it at that. They should clarify or at least explain some background on the anonymous poster you were offended by.
As far as my comment on maintaining God as your mediator, I should have explained it a little better or used different phrasing to make my point, but was trying to keep my comment a little shorter. When I referred to "God" being your mediator, I was referring to Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 8:6, Hebrews 9:15 As explained in these verses He is the only legitimate mediator between God and man, and He is the mediator of the New Covenant. He alone sacrificed Himself for our sins and it is because of Him that the veil in the temple was ripped in two, giving all men and women direct access to God. Matthew 27:50-51. He alone is our High Priest, and we have become a priesthood of all believers. Hebrews 4:14-16,1Peter 2:5
The point I was trying to make was simply that we all have direct access to God and His word, and we do not have to go through the hierarchy of a human organization to be heard by God, or approved by God. Either the basis of Christian faith comes down to a personal relationship with your creator or it doesn't. And while I do still think we are to seek to cooperate and function with other Christians as a body of believers and that Christ has gifted us with leadership within that body in the form of older more experienced Christians, referred to in the Bible as elders, these elders or others serving in other capacities do not take the place of each of us having a personal relationship with or direct access to God Himself. They do not function as mediators and priests, as the Old Testament priesthood did. Their presence in the body also does not excuse any of us from proving all things and holding fast to that which is good, or working out our own salvation with trembling and fear, or when push comes to shove, obeying God rather than man. 1Thes.5:21, Philippians 2:12, Acts 5:27-29 In the end the Presiding President, Evangelist, Minister, etc. won't be standing there with you when it is your turn to give an account before Christ telling Him, "It's okay Jesus, this person made that decision because I told them to, and even though I was wrong, I know you'll understand, because I was just exercising my authority in the God's government."
For what its worth, I will also say that I personally cooperate with governmental authorities, businesses, etc. when it comes to mask wearing. I know there are differences of opinion as to their effectiveness, etc. but I don't believe this issue rises to the level of disobedience to God if you wear a mask. The issue here is the way this was handled by this particular group. When you trot out the binding and loosing argument, implying that Weston and His board are the ones who determine how to interpret and apply God's law for the rest of the church, and use the example of Sarah going along with Abraham in lying to the Egyptian Pharaoh about their relationship and say that she was right in doing so because she was obeying "God's government", as Wally Smith did in his sermonette this past week, we have a problem. One wonders if he has ever read the story of Abigail and Nabal. Abigail did not go along with her husband in his treatment of David and his men, because she knew he was wrong, yet God honored Abigail and Nabal was shown to be the fool he was.
Anyway, I hope this clarifies my point.
Concerned Sister
Wrong question 12:10.
Does the persona of "nck" even have the character of a leader ?
Is nck a natural verbal bully?
"Nck" has a lot of time to comment.
What motivates Nck.
What's nck' s agenda.
Nck loves his blog friends and hates others too easily.
12:10
You are like a nurse watching me slap 93 year ol granny because she pushed the buttons on the I phone all wrong.
Everyone is, I guess, righteously indignated because I seem to be the only person not knowing "the one in the know, whose suffering I never will understand."
Ok.
I accept my loss.
Hope to learn more from the good man in the future.
As they say in "Kingdom of Heaven".
"Your qualities will be known among your enemies before you will ever meet them."
A creed I live by.
Nck
Ha ha ha.... nck must be the leader of The Living Church of Those With Way Too Much Time On Their Hands. He is a self ordained Apostle of website blogs. If anyone doesn't obey him, they are either marked and thrown out, or are wished into the corn frield.
This is the anonymous "poster" again lol... I'm sorry that my post was a distraction to this thread and blog, it wasn't my intention, as there are several wonderful posts here, with a plethora of wisdom to heed. First of all, NCK I apologize for my repetitive use of "I" and will be more careful with my words in the future. I was writing quickly and being too careless in expressing myself. Again, I'm sorry. I'm nothing special, and as some stated, I'm definitely NOT perfect. I merely wanted to express my deep concern for those still entangled in these church groups, and it breaks my heart seeing so many people hurt, in so many ways, by the blind and selfish principles and false teachings of these cult groups. Secondly, thank you to everyone who expressed support and kind words about me... it means a lot! I don't intend to write any more on this thread or topic, and sorry again for being a distraction. Take care brethren, for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against evil Archons in higher realms. Let's take care of eachother and be quick to forgive and slow to wrath. Many blessings from God Most High on all the readers here... stay strong for the consummation of the age approaches, with it comes tremendous sufferings but also tremendous redemption from this current Underworld. I'm no Prophet, but please accept these words in Christ's love. Peace be with you ALL :)
Concerned Sister
Very clear!
I just wondered if you meant that God mediated between himself and others as party in a dispute. I wouldnt like my neighbor setting himself up as mediator regarding the sound volume of his stereo set.
Anonymous
Some assumed I dispute your contents. We are in agreement that my rebuke was triggered by the "haste" and "evocative emotion" in which serious allegations were made. This, for me clouded the "deep concerns."
I say this as one who studied in halls named after attorneys of the Tokyo tribunal, taught by lawyers representing Lybia vs the USA in the Lockerby trial who visits "Neurenberg" rather than an oktoberfest while in the hood.
I kinda apologized, when I quoted from "Kingdom of Heaven" and as such, acknowledged the favorable reportings of your reputation.
If half of the commendations are true, good things will come to you and our confrontation will be a minor event.
I have seen many many times that people, companies and nations who did not respond well to my observations later developed many many problems.
The manner you chose to adress my observation I'm sure, will benefit your future endeavors. Not for my sake, but your own.
I am looking forward to "distractions." Though a man of character might have better things to do than hang around here. I mean its an affront to good taste, which is why I like it.
Nck
Nck wrote "'Your qualities will be known among your enemies before you will ever meet them.' A creed I live by."
In many of the comments you post on this blog, you come across as contentious and condescending. You're not helping anyone. Also, I'm not a friend or an enemy. Quit being a jerk.
4:23
I've been a jew unto the jew and a greek unto the greek, polite to the polite, ridiculous to the ridiculous.
I will not quit anything. I will hearken to your outcry and give everyone a break.
Thank you for your feedback.
nck
The church of God I attend (not LCG anymore) is being very careful not to upset the 501 apple cart or to do anything that might attract MSM attention, thus the very careful following of all government mandates. The stance of no longer adhering to the clean and unclean meats laws in regard to vaccines is an example. Vaccines contain unclean and unholy ingredients and yet most all of the corporate COG's have no doctrinal stance regarding them. I have been told that it would interfere with their 501 status. We did in the early days of the church but that history seems to be expunged. I am reminded of the time when I did attend LCG, during the horrible Milwaukee shooting, when Meredith said "We are so normal we are boring" and "We have never had a problem with crosses (crucifixes)"
"Tonto said...
Civics review time-- FIRST AMENDMENT
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE thereof. "
However, 501c3 churches like the LCG will not do anything to upset the government, even when that government is violating
Constitutionally authorized LAW! Mandated Mask orders against churches are patently illegal!
Surely individuals can wear a mask at church if they want to, and no one would give them grief in doing so.
Protecting that 501c3 non profit status is the idol all such churches bow down to. Churches risk losing such status unless totally submitted to State Authority, whether right or wrong. Neither Fritts or Munson are more valuable than that , and they were naive in thinking that truth, or any argument was more powerful than protecting the money flow, or tax status."
Cheers!
Is it just me, but I don't understand which way round was the reason to kick out these two.
Was it church policy to wear masks, and these two were lax over it, or was it the other way round, the church did not want them to wear masks, but they insisted on wearing them?
Having read the article a couple of times, I still cannot work out which way round it is.
8:25 AM... It is my understanding that Monson and Fritts are against wearing masks, not singing in church services, etc. and that Weston has established policy in LCG that all congregations wear masks and refrain from singing.
Concerned Sister
The Weston seems to have educated himself on the situation in bavarian and north austrian pentecostal churches as superspreader events....... before the holiday makers and youth rebelled.
Nck
Questeruk asked:
Is it just me, but I don't understand which way round was the reason to kick out these two.
Was it church policy to wear masks, and these two were lax over it, or was it the other way round, the church did not want them to wear masks, but they insisted on wearing them?
Having read the article a couple of times, I still cannot work out which way round it is.
Which way round it is, is that the two of them insisted on disobeying their boss's boss (Winnail's boss, Weston), and they had been so used to being coddled previously that they assumed they could get their way. This time they were wrong. Their offense had nothing to do with masks, it had everything to do with lack of cooperation. We wouldn't be surprised by the firing if it happened at Google or Facebook or IBM, where employees are supposed to follow corporate policies and procedures, so we shouldn't be surprised when the same happens in a church corporation.
NCK, my issue here is not with Weston's policy per se, but with the way it was promoted and explained, with all the heavy handed we are "God's government" so what ever we say is bound and loosed, as well as other faulty reasoning. This could have been handled in a much more even handed and diplomatic way, even if the result might have still ended up being a parting of ways.
Also, the fact is that we have only heard one side of the story because Monson and Fritts were never given an opportunity to explain their position to the rest of the congregation. We only have Weston's word, and we know from history that things are usually spun to put whomever thinks they have the upper hand in the best light.
Concerned Sister
Yes CS.
When did we disagree on the majors? I do not favor heavyhandedness. Assuming I know what the topic actually is, as I am as confused as others I would have sent an e mail saying.
"I kicked the fools out of office by negating the chain of command and putting the elderly at risk."
"I am looking forward to seeing them at the next potluck though. "
Cheers.
The Obtuse General
St Nck
This is the anonymous poster one last time. NCK I appreciate your advice--thanks. Also just wanted you to know that I did NOT write the 4:23 am post... that wasn't from me. I consider everyone family or a friend... even if someone acts as an enemy towards me--they are still a friend in my heart. I love God and people and all human beings are family or friends to me :)
LIVING CHURCH OF GOD TRAINING MANUAL:
NEVER USE A FLY SWATTER WHEN YOU CAN USE A HAMMMER
- Rod McNair
This is the standard method of operation for this corrupt organization.
Jerry and his counsel of ass-lickers are shamefully hypocritical regarding this matter.
To dodge North Carolina COVID-19 restrictions they have the headquarters congregation driving across the border to South Carolina for Sabbath service where the restrictions are, well, less restrictive.
So it's okay to skinny around the rules if it suits Jerry and the LCG SS but Sheldon and Jason are monsters worthy of disfellowshipping for not wanting to enforce mask rules!
So typical.
Do as I say. Not as I do.
I can't wait for the day this horrid organization crumbles. The world will be a better place.
LIVING CHURCH OF GOD TRAINING MANUAL:
NEVER USE A FLY SWATTER WHEN YOU CAN USE A HAMMMER
- Rod McNair
This is the standard method of operation for this corrupt organization.
I hope Rod McNair remembers this when the inevitable day comes that Weston or a successor uses the hammer on HIM! Remember the apostle Paul's words, Rod: Eventually, you reap what you sow. And you, Rod, have sown a lot of cruelty and injustice. I hope you pray daily for God's mercy on your corrupt and evil soul.
Exie, please don't give out your number away. Also, I am glad you responded to that person!
I hope God leads us where He is working.
Feast time probably
If 10:48 is right, it just goes to show that LCG leaders (even the whole council agreed with Weston) see nothing wrong with enforcing a government rule in the church, being blind to the fact that they were called to enforce the government of God instead, something that they have been hammering us with for years, "Obey the government of God, obey the government of God... (when often it was their arbitrary will or unjust judgments that were being expressed instead)" LCG (and the other splinters) would rather be politically correct and comply with government orders than support the importance of free and unrestricted worship in the church. But the constitution protects our right to worship God as we so choose. So it really comes down to either obeying God or men, which is what COG leaders are afraid of, being afraid of being fined, imprisoned or losing their not-for-profit status for obeying God. Yet they will say, "we must obey the civil authorities too, as Paul wrote". The answer? Yes, we are to obey them, but not when their orders conflict with the will and government of Jesus Christ in the church! (Eph 1:20-22) The church is off-limits to civil authorities unless we transgress their laws. Why should unbelievers dictate to believers how they should worship God in the church, unless the heads are cowardly ignoramuses who don't know how to properly worship God?
So Wally Smith is saying it's OK to lie and break one of the commandments as long as it is done in obedience to one's mate? What? The authority of man is greater than the authority of God?
And 10:48 is right about the hypocrisy of LCG head office, choosing to leave the state to find free worship in another (mask-free) state while condemning two men who wanted to exercise it in their own congregations (but which became a bone of contention in which the disgruntled majority won). It goes to show what COG councilmen are keeping their eyes on.
Mr. Monson is fine with wearing masks everywhere except for services. He doesn't discourage anyone from wearing masks at services. He chose to change all his churches services to outdoor services which Weston said allows the members to sing and not wear masks. But Mr. Weston admitted he had long ago already decided to get rid of Mr. Monson So following Mr. Weston's own rules was, according to Weston, just trying to get around the rules. It seems to me that Sheldon was trying to stay within the rules and keep his personal convictions. So the long meetings were not to help Mr. Monson. Did they show love to Mr. Monson? No. Is the "Living Church of God's leaders now dead-in faith and love? The names of the COGs seen to reveal their weakness.
Agree or not, Mr. Monson believes God is with the brethren at services. Are the old ministers afraid that they will appear to have little faith if they allow someone to go maskless at services. We all only have a very little faith. We should not be embarrassed but ask for more. Would Christ wear a mask if he went to services with you today? If He went to church with you I believe all who believe in Him would feel safe. Man draws lines to divide us and God erases them to unite His followers.
To Anonymous August 16 8:02pm
Can you please clarify on where Mr Weston "admitted" this?
"But Mr. Weston admitted he had long ago already decided to get rid of Mr. Monson"
Thanks
I found it very hard to tell from all this comment whether Weston wanted people to wear masks or whether he didn't want them to wear masks. Can somebody please enlighten me. The whole point about wearing a mask is that it is used to protect others from what you might be spraying around - by impeding the flow of droplets. It is not there to protect the wearer.Love your neighbour as yourself by not spraying your viruses all over him when you speak or sing.
I agree. I still don't know whether he was for or against. Wearing a mask is a personal choice. Yes, my other half wears one going to pick up groceriez which are delivered to the vehicle. I haven't been out of our home since December 2019. But that is my choice. Amd no, I have not attended church for several reasons. The church always said if one is sick, stay home. But it isn't enforced. Evefy time I would attend. I would get sick. Therefore I started staying home when others got upset with me. What a person's personal likes and dislikes are should never be an issue. What we hang on our walls should not be an issue. But sadly, we can't voice our opinion because it would make others mad.
Religion causes hate, strife, and war. Our personal faith in God does not. Each of us will answer according to our faith, not to men, but God. If I am wrong, I will know it someday. May God help us all to quit placing blame and judging. We don't know what another has gone through. There are over seven billion people in the world. That is seven billion different opinions. They are not all wrong. Just different.
Proves you know no facts concerning this matter. Not only did you misspell Mr. Monson's name, but you lie about Jason Fritts. What you HAVE proved, is that Satan is the god of this world & his goal is to tear the Church apart. And...all these comments about. "don't blame Satan"...you speak for Satan. He is a liar and the father of it.
Take a chill pill Buckwheat. Grammarly keeps changing with a "u" I changed it. Now you can feel important and self-righteous for straightening out all of the Satanic people here.
Whoever is running this blog I have a few questions if your willing to answer. 1. Why are you keeping tabs on LCG?
2.Are you a active member of LCG ? If LCG doesn’t have the truth what is the name of the Church that does?
I’m not going out of my way to pick on LCG. They are doing this themself. Plus, anonymous LCG sources continue to send items in. They are far more familiar with the inner works of LCG than I am. Ask your leaders what is going on.
Very good point!
Was it really over “masks”?
Yep they split and split and split like they cannot agree on which way the toilet paper should be folded
Ah, but you forget, God has personally revealed to Bob Thiel the correct way to fold toilet paper and everything else that he can pick to control members' lives. Weston is now the impotent leader of the Laodicean church while Thiel is the chosen one.
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