Before HWA died, he instructed the members of the WCG to obey Joe Tkach. And here is the problem with that:Here is the script from the climactic courtroom scene in “A Few Good Men:” Kaffee: Colonel, I just have one more question before I put Airman O'Malley and Airman Rodriguez on the stand. If you gave an order that Santiago wasn't to be touched, and your orders are always followed, then why would Santiago be in danger? Why would it be necessary to transfer him off the base? Jessup: Santiago was a substandard Marine. He was being transferred... Kaffee: That's not what you said. You said he was being transferred, because he was in grave danger. Jessup: That's correct. Kaffee: You said he was in danger. I said "grave danger"? You said. “Is there any other kind?” Jessup: I recall what I said. Kaffee: I could have the court reporter read back to you... Jessup: I know what I said! I don't have to have it read back to me, like I'm... Kaffee: Then why the two orders? Colonel? Jessup: Sometimes men take matters into their own hands. Kaffee: No, sir. You made it clear just a moment ago that your men never take matters into their own hands. Your men follow orders or people die. So Santiago shouldn't have been in any danger at all, should he have, Colonel? Jessup: You snotty little bastard.
On one hand, if you obey that instruction, you will end up following a religion that is totally at odds with what HWA taught.
On the other hand, if you follow HWA’s religious teachings, you must disobey HWA’s final instruction.
Just as Colonel Jessup’s testimony couldn't be reconciled with itself, neither can the “authority“ of the WCG offshoots be reconciled. If a man or organization claims the mantle of HWA, they are either disobeying his final command or they are going against his doctrines. You can’t do both. If you ask these guys to reconcile this dichotomy, they may not say the following, but they will thinking, “You snotty little bastard.”
That’s how they view us who participate on Banned.
Wes White
16 comments:
The answer is simple. The "obey Joe Tkach" order came from Aaron Dean and others who put words in HWA's mouth at the end. HWA himself had said that if the WCG ever got screwed up beyond fixing (presumably by his underlings) he would leave and start a new church.
You can't handle the truth!
Anonymous 8/7 @ 6:52,
Wes is right - there is no reconciling this dichotomy. Armstrongism was fatally flawed from its inception, and there's no resurrecting it or setting things to right!
Wes White
Not everyone who participates on banned are straightforward Wes.
A lot of deception going on Banned.
Those extra years in WCG under Tkatch has left a far worse spiritual character erosion than anything Those who left before realized.
Far,far worse.
What really expired between Wes and HWA was the following:
HWA:
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very religion that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a bible, and stand a post.
Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
Wes White:
Did you order to obey Tkach?
nck
12.39 AM
That reminds me of people from Europe who migrated to English speaking countries during the 1950s. Since they were cut off from the mother culture, the moral western "liberation" that swept their countries, passed them by. So these now aging people found themselves in a moral time warp. They are still stuck in the 1950s.
Anonymous said...
"The answer is simple. The "obey Joe Tkach" order came from Aaron Dean and others who put words in HWA's mouth at the end. HWA himself had said that if the WCG ever got screwed up beyond fixing (presumably by his underlings) he would leave and start a new church."
I was at the feast in Corpus Christi when Herbert said, "Your very salvation depends on you following the next Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God!!". I was half asleep due to the "two trees" crap, when he roared it out. I didn't see anyone whispering in his ear.
Armstrong himself planted the seeds of destruction within his religion. He is responsible, not some demon named Satan. The natural path of atrophy is now taking place.
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
PS- Actually Jack Nicholson gives us more insights about the WCG from the movie "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest" than in a Few Good Men! IMHO!
Moral time warp ? Anon 2:02 A.M.
Does such a thing exist. Only if you're a amoral i suppose.
NCK asked: "Wes White: Did you order to obey Tkach?"
No. I left WCG in 1981 -- years before Tkach took over. So no, I never obeyed Tkach.
And, starting in 1981, I no longer obeyed HWA. Further, I rejected just about all the doctrines HWA added to those that he learned from the Church of God Seventh Day.
This is what? Double disobedience? Triple disobedience? I assume that makes me a DOUBLE snotty little bastard? TRIPLE snotty little bastard? No problem.
Wes White
Haha good observation 2:02.
So, which side are you on?
Observing your funny "Aussie" uncles or did your cousins mock you for your funny hairstyle?
I feel sorry for those whose mother tongue gets increasingly dominant again as they get older and older. Likewise I get your observation regarding returning to fundamental control mechanisms.
Nck
this is why you obey God and not men.
people "following HWA" is the problem...it's idolatry pure and simple.
in my experience, people following HWA is the biggest problem in The Church.
I heard a minister say once that he didn't need a bible because he had HWA's writings to study....he didn't last long, but I hear that he is still a minister in one of the splinters.
August 7, 2020 at 6:52 PM wrote: "The "obey Joe Tkach" order came from Aaron Dean and others who put words in HWA's mouth..."
That's a bunch of bull and one of the many myths that circulated about Tkach Sr. Aaron disliked Tkach and there is no way he would have ever made such an order. HWA was not as feeble-minded as some want to make him out to be in his last days. He knew exactly the power struggle that would take place by varying men who would fight over being Pastor General if he did not appoint someone. Tkach was a bitch-slap extraordinaire by HWA to these men. A low-level man who took care of widows was placed above the pretentious wannabe's who tried to gain access to HWA in 1985 to influence him into appointing them.
Hi Wes.
I'm sorry if I was misunderstood.
All lines were the exact sequence of interregation from "A few good men." I only changed a handful of words. The original question was."Did you order the Code Red?"
I thought it was funny to adapt one ov my favorites to the topic at hand.
Nck
Hi NCK.
Oops. I get it now. Sorry for being so obtuse.
You asked if I ordered the code red or anything else. Nah. I was just an idiot flunky back in the day. I would have been the Colonel Markinson. While I would not have blown out my brains with a 45, I would have followed orders and filled out the fake transfer order. Again, I was an idiot.
--Wes
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