I'm not sure if this is three or four years IN A ROW that Christ/The Father are supposed to come during the Feast/Last Great Day. As a former member and employee at Headquarters, I remember feeling so bad for the brethren who had to sit and listen to the endless sermons during the Feast. I felt even worse for those who were truly EXCITED that "this was finally it" and Christ was coming inside hours. The days preached about will often move during each message the Feast. Tonight. No, tomorrow. No, the Last Great Day. No, just after the Feast.
In 2020, Mr. Pack told brethren on the first day that they were not going home. I sat at the back of the room and mused to myself (but lacked the courage to actually say it to his face), "If you're not coming back from the Feast, Mr. Pack...may I please have the keys to your house and your security code since you won't need it anymore?" It was a private thought. I know I would have been walked to the door instantly. I wasn’t ready to leave. Yet.
I left RCG in March of this year and I have watched from afar (and heard from brethren still attending) that the roller coaster I got off of is still rolling around in an endless circle. It won’t stop. Only God can stop this machine that must keep going.
To those who are reading this and say, “They deserve it” – I would ask, “Where is your compassion?” There are a lot of really wonderful, kind, intelligent, and just plain ‘good’ people in RCG. They were sold a bill of goods by a man who has drifted from the truth he once proclaimed to uphold.
The greatest critic of David C. Pack on the face of the earth…is David C. Pack. Just go back and re-read some of the literature from years ago with his name on it and you would clearly see he convicts himself. That’s why brethren today cannot find that literature on the website or in print. The man has already accused himself.
The brethren are not stupid. The ministers are not stupid. The ministers are not wicked. They know something is wrong…the Bible tells them it’s wrong. “But where else am I supposed to go?” These poor people don’t know what to do but sit tight and wait it out.
When you are fully convicted that you are in the right place, following the right people…and things drift off course and you begin to realize, “maybe this isn’t the place” – that is a hard, hard thing to see. (I’m still struggling with it.) I invested so much in RCG for the almost 9 years I was there…that is a difficult thing to say, “Wow, I was wrong. And I don’t know what to do now.” The basis of all your beliefs are shaken to the ground.
To any harsh critics out there: Let me know what fundamental belief you held in your life for years and then realized it was wrong and were able to just shrug it off as no big deal…and say to yourself, "I should have known better."
But for those still in RCG...don't worry. After the Feast, there will be some silence by Mr. Pack while he confers with his inner circle for a while...then will have an exciting message to let you know, "everything is still right on track" and "nothing has changed." – The two most insulting phrases the man can utter…and he does after every failure…which means he has much opportunity to say those words.
But what do I know? After all, I’m just an antichrist.
M. Cebrian
PS – Jesus Christ will not be returning tomorrow. Why not?
Because it is impossible for David C. Pack to be right.
26 comments:
It was a sabbath after the last great day of John 7:37, 7:37-9:14. Tishri 23 is never a sabbath. Therefore the sabbath of John 9:14 is Tishri 22 and the last great day is Tishri 21, the 7th, and last, day of the feast (today, Monday, Sept 27, 2021). I assume DP is not aware of this, and of course anyone who believes the lunar calculations (only, not the counting of years) of the months of the present day Jewish Calendar were not applicable in Christ's time....will not care.
Transitions are messy and it takes time, (something some folk here don't understand and won't extend to you). It may not seem an option but "where do I go?" need not be a big concern for now. Putting some distance between where you have been is more important.
Take time to do nothing. Keep a quiet Sabbath at home if that is where you are in practice and belief. No more way too long sermons containing way too little! Yay! Put yourself first and regroup. When rested emotionally, physically and even spiritually you will make better decisions about the other questions. Avoiding frying pans and fires is paramount and easy to do in a panic of rushing to fill voids that can be left empty for now. No biggie
Congrats on moving on. It will all work out for you.
Thanks for the kind words, Dennis. Much appreciated. Moving on is a process. I have the support of those who left before me. We are in the same boat.
Perhaps, it is time to take some biblical advice for a change. Not all is lost. And, finally some are beginning to see the light. Scripture was right in describing a time when the Believers would be surrounded by false teachers and members, just like today. Ya’ think?
So, what was the biblical advice given for each Believer who woke up to their real situation? It really is simple, but a bit unsettling. Here it is: “WORK out YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling.” Why? Well, because you just may be in a time when there are no others to grow with, fellowship with, and be uplifted and encouraged by. At least not near you.
Live a correct and real example of a Believer’s life and you just might shine your light bright enough to attract each other. That’s better than listen to former brothers who became, or always were, atheists and who knows what else.
The light is always brighter than the darkness, so be the light.
The sad thing is that there ARE "other places to go." Even on Sabbath. May the people who are desperate have the courage to seek out those places.
Looking like Pack and Theil are backing themselves into the false prophecy corner…let’s hope they don’t pull a Jim Jones to cover their false dogma.
If either Theil or Pack believe that a imminent threat is coming, a Jonestown or a Waco scenario is very possible.
There are other places to go
https://youtu.be/akOi0Vo_zjQ
What surprised me most after I stopped attending services, was how my attitudes changed over time. Under the guise of giving "messages," the ministers use extensive brainwashing strategies such as classical conditioning. I just read an article on lion training, and was struck how it parallels ministers dealings with members.
When animals are left alone they revert to natural behaviors, a phenomenon called instinctual drift
So one's sanity returns after non attendance at services.
If a church leaves a void, the void should be filled by God our Father and Jesus Christ foremost. But I understand the desire for a church. The Scriptures do talk about the body of believers, after all, who are supposed to be united in doctrine and mind by God's spirit.
A couple of random thoughts come to mind. Ron Weinland also made a number of outrageous prophecies that built huge bubbles within the minds of his followers. And, the bubbles all burst. For those lacking in compassion, just imagine fervently believiing that Jesus would be coming within a short time span, and then the emptiness and depression which you would experience from that not taking place, and not just once, but over and over and over again. I had the opportunity to dialogue with a number of Weinland's people on one of those sites, and can assure you that that was the case. But, I believe what finally shrunk Weinland into near nothing was that several "Weinland Watch" websites sprung up, with former insiders participating, and once they had a support group, it became just a little easier for them to make a difficult life choice and walk away.
We have had an unusual opportunity to watch an authoritarian demagogue, on a national level, defy democratic processes, also by spreading lies and conspiracy theories, even to the extent of attempting to thwart valid fact checking which got in the way of his agenda. People are still scared at the specter of his power, allowing their beliefs and behavior to be modified by this man, not unlike the entire political structures in Germany during the Third Reich. It is insidious! You would think that the ministry and membership of LCG would see the parallel between two greatly evil men, and would fight for their liberty, but like the majority of the German citizens of another era, they are afraid. Unfortunately,demagoguery is part of the Zeitgeist of our current era.
1:48 writes:
“Tishri 23 is never a sabbath”.
Genuine question:
What is your supporting evidence that in the time of Christ Rosh Hashanah couldn’t fall on a Friday?
“Popular Judaism regards Rosh Hashanah as the date of the creation of the universe by God (Tulmud: Rosh Hashanah 27a), but the Midrash notes that it occurred six days earlier, on the 25th of Elul...
“The Mishnah (Sanhedrin 38b) states that Adam and Eve were created six days later on Rosh Hashanah (i.e., Tishri 1)...
“According to Jewish tradition, this first “Friday” was the first Rosh Hashanah...” (Teshuvah and Creation, hebrew4christians.com).
Back in 2011,
David C. Pack famously dedicated a World to Come broadcast, several magazine articles, and a huge ad campaign denouncing Harold Camping a retired engineer turned minister who would predict that the rapture would occur on May 21, 2011 (2 years before he would go on to make a great "rapture/gathering" like claim himself titled: "The Prophecy of Haggai").
David C. Pack stated that Harold Camping would be forced to keep changing dates before claiming that what he had predicted would occur spiritually. (Which David C. Pack also did in 2020 when he claimed that a spiritual countdown had begun instead of the return of Christ. He claimed he now had concrete evidence when Solomons temple was definitively built and man's 6000-year rule on earth was coming to an end).
When I was still in my early 20's, I found myself highly confused and questioning my choice to leave RCG. I began to read the early material. Instead, I would replace whoever David Pack was referring to with his own name. And when I would read it out loud I'd get goosebumps all over my body.
In the same exact way that David used the bible to condemn these men for false prophecy and give bullet lists of why they were wolves in sheep's clothing, Over the years I began to see it also applied to him. This gave me comfort, especially because I had doubted for years that my decision to leave was the right one. The more I spend outside of the paranoia, hyper-vigilance, and the rollercoaster of date baiting the clearer I see. I kept all my materials, I go back and read them from time to time. The David of today is a variant of the David from pre elul or even before the buildings were constructed. He's entertained one too many ideas and fell down the proverbial hole. RCG will sear your ability to do critical thinking. For that reason, I have mercy on the remaining brethren there who are just beyond amazing, humble, kind, generous, and eager to help.
Pack has falsely and so arrogantly stated in the past that Harold Camping would never admit he was wrong. Fact Check: Well, he did. David C. Pack now holds a record of failures with the likes of all those whom throughout the years he has ostracized and condemned from the pulpit.
References to Elul 2013 failed "Haggai Prophecy":
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2015/09/dave-pack-and-restored-church-of-god.html
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2013/07/dennis-on-twenty-four-observations.html
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2017/01/dave-packs-awesome-insights-of-2013-let.html
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2013/09/dennis-muses-i-never-said-that.html
Reference to RCG Harold Camping Articles:
shorturl.at/swRVW
https://rcg.org/realtruth/news/111019-001.html
https://rcg.org/realtruth/articles/120625-004.html
Not to worry. No Jim Jones scenario. The congregants in this Splinter group know what to expect. They have experienced it many times before and they are still hanging around. They have an "over the horizon" capability that tells them that this is not leading to the Parousia - although they might play along with the excitement on the LGD. They understand that this leads to a non-event followed by date waffling followed by rescheduling followed by financial retrenchment. And we on this blog will again make rational appeals that will be ignored. A week from now, after the cycle plays out, it will be business as usual until the next cycle.
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1:01 AM: Thank you for your question. I’ve chosen scripture instead of popular Judaism/Mishnah/Midrash/Talmud for supporting evidence, namely, Ps 104:19 and Ex 23:16, which indicate the moon was made for fixed times (Hebrew moed), which to me means a (God’s) calendar has been fixed since creation, and the feast of tabernacles is at the going out (“end”-Strong’s 3318) of the year, which means the FOT is at the end of the year, not Elul 25 or the day before Tishri 1. One other supporting verse is Romans 3:1-2 which to me indicates the Jews have preserved not only the scriptures but also the lunar (monthly) calculations of a calendar. But the Jews over the centuries have also developed traditions (see Mark 7:6-9) and folklore that are suspect as to truth.
The point is I choose to believe the lunar calculations (yeah, including the postponements) of the Jewish Calendar, but only the lunar calculations, have been fixed since Adam. I don’t deny I am picking and choosing.
You just admitted that you are NOT using the lunar calendar but the Hillel II calendar which goes by the CONJUNCTION and not the visible lunar crescent. How you can justify the satanic postponements is simply astonishing.
Marc,
If you are still struggling, then I will have you know this is exactly the state and condition Dave Pack predetermined and willfully cultivated in you. Ask yourself what and who you need to break yourself free of.
Remember, Dave Pack's claim to fame was to condense into what became three sermons - 30/60/90 reasons to follow the truth. The two basic proofs that he tried to establish in these sermons was that the truth is the doctrinal establishment of Herbert W. Armstrong and that the truth was not arbitrarily confined to a specific location.
If you have been in the RCG headquarters, you know full well that Dave Pack has established that the truth is now his own doctrinal speculation and he has personally said, the RCG is the only place where the truth is found.
There is a reason the apostle Paul encouraged you to "see" your calling. When you look deeply enough into that, you will easily see that Dave Pack and Wadsworth, Ohio are not the foundation of your calling nor the end of your salvation.
You came here and have laid down a little part of your life for those with eyes to see and we know there is no greater love than to lay down your life for your brother and sisters. Hopefully you can continue to help those who can no longer rationally see the truth and embrace their calling.
I haven't looked at CNN yet today, so don't know if the Messiah has checked in at Wadsworth this morning?
I guess this will be the top story..and Ohio will finally get the respect it's long been denied..always playing second fiddle the the Empire State..well no longer: check it out Gotham City, Jesus prefers suburban Akron..live coverage from the Goodyear blimp..uh, there's skinny, - showing JC the newly completed messianic-flower-square!
Thanks 11:02 for the answer to my question.
I would just like to say that the comment immediately following (12:13) was not mine.
What I want to know is, how do we get back to December 31, 1978 to watch the Grateful Dead's concert closing Winterland???
There is still one more chance for Dave's divine daydream to be fulfilled!
For those in the diaspora there is One More Day tacked on the the FOT + LGD. That is Simchat Torah, the Rejoicing of the Torah - an all singing, all dancing delight (not line dancing or Irish river dance) for those who don't live in Israel (that is, eretz Israel, not the phony baloney BI Israel).
So, Dave has, on this Tishri 23, 5782, One More Chance not to be a total failure as a foibled forecaster.
It appears the only "miracle" which happened Tuesday was the Cardinals winning their 17th game in a row. :-)
The last chance for Dave to be right has gone. One day he will be gone too.
WHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH at 12:26 PM said...“Remember, Dave Pack's claim to fame was to condense into what became three sermons - 30/60/90 reasons to follow the truth. The two basic proofs that he tried to establish in these sermons was that the truth is the doctrinal establishment of Herbert W. Armstrong and that the truth was not arbitrarily confined to a specific location.
When I first heard the 30/60/90 reasons to follow the truth sermons that Dave Pack made up while he was in the Global Church of Rod, my initial thought was that if Dave Pack had given those sermons a number of years earlier they might very well have been called 30/60/90 reasons to never ever leave the WCG, Incorporated no matter what.
As you can clearly see in more recent times, Dave Pack can come up with endless reasons and proofs that are not good reasons and are not real proofs. They are just ongoing noise and baffle-gab to wear people down, confuse their minds, and introduce mind-boggling errors.
Iam not a supporter of Pack but your depiction of so called Jesus is meaningless. That is the worlds view. No one knows what he looked like and he didn’t have long hair. Nice try critics
Good gods! This has to be the dumbest comment ever! It’s a joke buttercup . We all get it, but apparently you don’t.
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