I just checked out LCG's February 1 Weekly Update in the member area and it has the usual falderal of topics that look like the Worldwide Church of God from 50 years ago. That experiment failed so I am still amazed that today's corporate empires cannot come up with new messages that are relevant to 21st-century Christians? They still try to emulate the old Mother Church instead of bringing new insights into the gospel message of grace, justification, and sanctification. Apparently, they have no idea what that all means.
They are bragging about the summer youth camps coming up and have this to say:
This summer we are planning for teen camps in Texas and Belgium. There will be a teen adventure camp in Oregon and preteen camps in West Virginia, Missouri, and Texas. There may be additional camps in international areas. Some announcements have already been made and others will be made in the next week or two. If you are interested in attending as a camper or serving on the staff at one of these camps, please be patient if we have not given details for the camp you may be interested in. Mr. Jonathan McNair and I spent a few minutes yesterday discussing the importance of our camp programs and we both have a strong belief that our camps have a far greater purpose than entertaining the next generation. While camp is fun, it must be fun with a greater purpose in mind—educating and building character for the future.
The adults can take online study courses on the same worn-out topics from the past. Notice the very first topic, Germany. Not a single topic about the New Covenant.
- Germany in Prophecy – Rod McNair
- Business Relationships in the Church – Dexter Wakefield
- Acts of the Apostles – Roderick C. Meredith
- Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ – Roderick C. Meredith
- The General Epistles – Gerald Weston
- Hosea – Douglas Winnail
- Tools for Christian Growth: Prayer – Jonathan McNair
- Passover – Compilation Study
- Pentecost – Compilation Study
- The Feast of Trumpets – Compilation Study
Need for Wisdom: Solomon wrote that one of the most important goals in life is to gain wisdom (Proverbs 4:7) and that the value of wisdom is greater than rubies or gold (8:11; 16:16). Proverbs was written to help others gain wisdom (1:1–6) and the key to obtaining wisdom is developing a proper fear of God—having a sincere desire to follow God’s instructions (Proverbs 1:7; 9:10). Godly wisdom helps us discern between right and wrong, and it leads to happiness and a longer life (Proverbs 2:10–11; 3:13–16). As Jesus grew up, He “increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men” (Luke 2:52) because He sought after wisdom and treasured God’s commandments (Proverbs 2:1–5). We are urged to ask God for wisdom (James 1:5) and admonished to study the Scriptures “which are able to make you wise” (2 Timothy 3:14–17). Set a goal of reading through the book of Proverbs—a chapter a day several times a year—so you can grow in wisdom.Have a profitable Sabbath,Douglas S. Winnail
19 comments:
Isn't this just amazing! In fact, it's a paradox, creating a group of people who act as if they are sooo entitled, but must continually qualify!
They couldn't get somebody else to teach the Acts of the Apostles course?
It's amazing how Germany has over 40 United States military bases on it.
I guess Germany will take of them first before attacking the US and British descended peoples.
Germany in Prophecy by Rod McNair….
That McNair name brings to mind Raymond McNair as regional director in NZ trying to explain the collapse of the USSR, and struggling to explain the Gulf War in the early 1990s. Their world was unraveling before them and their explanations of these events was undoubtedly ringing bells in many minds. My own thoughts at the time said he was wrong and the scripture he used to support his case were pure fantasy. The first doubts about BI started to surface also. Shortly after a close friend of mine confided to me he believed BI was utter bull. I wholeheartedly agreed. Sure enough a year or two later it was dropped as ‘truth’. The sense of relief I felt was real, I felt free. The Armstrong movement simply lacks credibility and it is saddening to see some still caught up within it.
As their membership numbers decline I hope many who leave will find freedom and the God who loves us all, free of the straight jacket of continuously having to qualify for salvation.
Not a single topic about the New Covenant.
Yet your list shows courses on Jesus Christ (who brought the New Covenant), General Epistles (which expand on the New Covenant) and Passover (where Jesus presents the New Covenant).
Talk about overexaggeration.
Yea I felt freedom too, see it's Christ that sets us free. That's why Paul stated: Therefore, as it is written, "The person who boasts must boast in the Lord."
I do see the course listed as The General Epistles by Weston. So I was looking for the course on Paul's writings as I assume this is it. It's fitting that God would allow Paul's letters to make up the majority of the NT under the New Covenant. I will say his booklet on John 3:16 was exceptional. I mean it's really good as that was something that WCG should have written many decades ago.
However, they still don't fully get it. When it comes to Germany, things have to be in place just as the Roman system was a few decades in place before it sieged Jerusalem in 70 AD. Things have to be physically in place. So Germany as stated earlier has an aging population, they have many migrants coming in, there are too many American military bases on it, Who is end time dictator?, the economy would have to stronger, has to have a religious revival in Europe etc. etc.
I'll choose to focus on Christ, and trying to grow each and ever day. I slip up many times, and Germany, BI and the Old Covenant and can't help me one bit. I fear the One who is able to destroy both soul and body, not some country.
5:14 said
“ Not a single topic about the New Covenant.
Yet your list shows courses on Jesus Christ (who brought the New Covenant), General Epistles (which expand on the New Covenant) and Passover (where Jesus presents the New Covenant).
Talk about overexaggeration.”
LCG does exactly the same thing they accuse normal Christians off. They talk about his message of the kingdom and never focus upon the new covenant, Grace, justification, sanctification, or any of the things accomplished by his death and resurrection.
The Armstrongist Passover is a bastardization of the Jewish Passover and places it’s emphasis upon his death. Then the moment you walk out the door and you sin that sin is there until next Passover, when your slate is wiped clean once again. It’s a never ending cycle of works.
1 Corinthians 1:24
Jesus is the power and wisdom of God.
That wisdom is the wisdom Winnail unwisely leaves out of his often repeated admonishments to get wisdom. Doug's repetitive messages are powerless for Christian growth.
Since LCG preaches very little about Jesus, muddles grace to be dependent on law- keeping, and rejects justification and sanctification, LCG remains powerless, fading, and as obsolete as their preferred covenant.
LCG and PCG have seem to embrace the failed traditions of men (HWA, Flurry, RCM) rather than Christ. It seems mind blowing that they STILL persisting with Germany Obssession. I guess they profess a flat earth also. I remember being somewhat shocked that they did a " tribute to HWA" in LCG several years ago after meeting some of the close members of HWA's and GTA's family decades ago and being told by them that unfortunately the things said about HWA's abuse of his daughter and other rumors were true.
Doug Winnail wrote: "...Need for Wisdom: Solomon wrote that one of the most important goals in life is to gain wisdom (Proverbs 4:7)..."
Well, for Doug and his followers, Solomon didn't fare all that well with all of the wisdom that he was given...and it was given to him.
For Doug and his followers, your wisdom isn't all that valuable unless you have something that Solomon may have lacked, and that is the fear of the LORD.
For Doug and his followers: do y'all have that fear? Without it, you can read Solomon's chapters all you want, but it won't give you that wisdom that comes from the fear of the LORD.
And a Mickey Mouse Millennium being taught is not wisdom.
Nevertheless, Solomon, using some of his proverbs, can help you understand what I'm saying:
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.
Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding."
Doug, you need that fear of the LORD to just have the beginning of wisdom, just the beginning, and it doesn't come from reading chapters of anything. You need the source's help, and that help actually now comes by God the Father's Spirit through Jesus Christ. God the Father is the God of the OT; it's wasn't Jesus Christ, or the Word.
Doug, both fear of the LORD, and wisdom, are fruits of God's Spirit, so don't blame and judge your followers if you can't see them having wisdom.
Doug, how do you stink Jesus received His wisdom and fear?
Let Isaiah help you:
Isaiah 11:2 "And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;"
Doug, you need to direct your followers to the Source of wisdom, and it isn't you, or your posts, directing your followers to look to self. No flesh will glory in God's sight.
You still think a 3rd resurrection is part of your wisdom, but it isn't. God only needed 2 resurrections planned, but that's in accordance with His wisdom: not you, or your flawed theories of God's Plan of Salvation to save all humanity and subsequently destroy Satan and his angels.
How may we know that fear is a fruit of God's Spirit?
Simple: Psalm 97:10 and Solomon's Proverbs 8:13
Look them verses, inspired by God the Father, up and think about it. Simple math here:
If a=c
and b=c,
then a must = b!
What is a? Love as in "Ye that love the LORD, hate evil:..."Psalm 97:10
What is b? Fear as in "The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil:..."
And what is love? Isn't that a fruit of God's Spirit? Is God love?
A little advice for Doug (yes, and for all of them xcog hirelings (John 10:13) of the former WCG: "little helpers" of HWA) and his followers?
Stop striving to qualify and earn your salvation by your works, because you can't do it, because you need to be guided by God's Spirit (not another spirit), in order to consider who God (not a Jesus as God of the OT), Jesus Christ (not another Jesus), and grace are all about. Your "wisdom" doesn't "cut it!" It's all part of that growing in grace and knowledge (yes, and God's WISDOM) bit. Take no credit for it. All glory, honor and praise to God our Father, where all of that belongs, and stop trying to take it to SELF!
Why? Because Doug's wisdom and views will not result in those future gods and godesses (he has in mind) by the sort of training he is preaching, although the scriptures are true, but those were from God under His inspiration.
Time will tell...
John
John, 12:19 pm PST, You said,"God the Father is the God of the OT; it's wasn't Jesus Christ, or the Word.
John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Hebrews 1 : God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, THROUGH WHOM HE ALSO MADE THE WORLD; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Anon, Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 5:20:00 PM PST, said:
"...John, 12:19 pm PST, You said,"God the Father is the God of the OT; it's wasn't Jesus Christ, or the Word.
John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Hebrews 1 : God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, THROUGH WHOM HE ALSO MADE THE WORLD; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
******
Exodus 3:4 "And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here [am] I.
:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest [is] holy ground.
:6 Moreover he said, I [am] the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."
Who is that God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Hint:
"The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go." Acts 3:1
Is Jesus'Father also His God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God of the OT?
Time will tell...
John
So John I see what you're saying:
Psalm 110:1 The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
I would say it's both. Like Let Us make man.......
But the Lord is the Father and He cannot be excluded from the OT scriptures.
Trooisto, Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 6:44:00 PM PST, said:
"...1 Corinthians 1:24
Jesus is the power and wisdom of God...
...Doug's repetitive messages are powerless for Christian growth.
Since LCG preaches very little about Jesus, muddles grace to be dependent on law- keeping, and rejects justification and sanctification, LCG remains powerless, fading, and as obsolete as their preferred covenant.
******
The comment saying "...Since LCG preaches very little about Jesus..." caught my attention, and so did Revelation 3.
Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name."
Is it possible that Doug Winnail (along with the rest of the former fleeing hirelings of WCG?) and his followers all think they are part of "the church in Philadelphia?"
Why not be part of the Laodiceans?
After all, with these hirelings preaching very little about Jesus (e.g. possibly b/c they have "another Jesus" in mind?), may it just be that they are in reality representatives of those who aren't keeping God's word (e.g. don't preach grace, but preach "another gospel"), and have "denied My name," and are just too blind to "see" it in themselves? Is it possible that they all are being driven, guided, by "another spirit?"
Time will tell...
John
To John, 7:16 pm PST -- from Anon Feb 11, 2024, @5:20 pm
Thank you for your observation based on Ex 3:4 and Acts 3:1. I receive it with an open mind and heart.
Thank you!
Anon, Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 8:02:00 PM PST, said:
"...So John I see what you're saying:
Psalm 110:1 The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
I would say it's both. Like Let Us make man.......
But the Lord is the Father and He cannot be excluded from the OT scriptures.
******
Why is it not both? It cannot be both, as the earlier verses cited revealed.
The scriptures say what they mean and mean what they say without any interpretation, theories and opinions to the contrary.
For example, who was at the Lord's, the God of the OT's right hand, the God of Abraham's right hand?
Acts 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."
You may believe what you wish, and don't change your thinking until you are convinced otherwise, but...
Time will tell...
John
Anon, Monday, February 12, 2024 at 7:52:00 AM PST, said:
"...To John, 7:16 pm PST -- from Anon Feb 11, 2024, @5:20 pm
Thank you for your observation based on Ex 3:4 and Acts 3:1. I receive it with an open mind and heart.
Thank you!..."
******
You're welcome. Make it a great day!
John
God OT and NT
Part 1
Heb 1:1a God,
Heb 1:2b Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son
Ac 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;
"Granted, there are two Testaments in our Bible. But we have one Bible, and the God of the Old Testament is the very same God of the New Testament..." (Andrew E. Hill, 1 & 2 Chronicles, NIVAC, p.25).
"... the God of the OT is the God of the NT" (Gordon J. Wenham, The Book of Leviticus, NICOT, p.33).
But how was God, God in the OT? In the same way He was God in the NT.
Jn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (AV).
Jesus’ “mission is to reveal the Father, but in so doing he reveals himself..." (J. Ramsey Michaels, The Gospel of John, NICNT, p.777).
Jn 20:17b I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Jn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.
Just as Jesus Christ was God in the NT, He was also God in the OT.
2Co 5:19a To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself
John 14:9 Jesus saith ... HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
“His reply, “The person who has seen me has seen the Father,” is simply a corollary of the principle of agency...” (J. Ramsey Michaels, The Gospel of John, NICNT, p.777).
Jn 14:10 ... the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
"The deeds and words of Jesus are both a revelation of God. Both proceed from the Father and reveal what the Father is like. THOUGH FROM A HUMAN POINT OF VIEW JESUS DOES THEM, THEY ARE SAID TO BE DONE BY THE FATHER (i.e., through Jesus), and they are called "his" works" (Leon Morris, The Gospel According to John, Revised, NICNT, p.572).
In the ‘absolute’ sense the deeds and words are done by the Father; in the ‘dynamic sense’, the deeds and words are done by Jesus Christ.
Using “the agency principle,” employed in both the OT and NT, God is the “Principal” and Jesus is the “Agent”.
1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of GOD OUR SAVIOUR, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Isa 63:8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: SO HE [YHWH] WAS THEIR SAVIOUR.
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE [LIT., “FACE”] SAVED THEM:
God is Creator and Saviour in the absolute sense; Jesus Christ/The Angel in the dynamic sense.
Part 2
So, the Father was God of the OT in the ‘absolute' sense, and Jesus was God in the ‘dynamic' sense.
Ex 3:2a And THE ANGEL OF THE LORD APPEARED UNTO HIM in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush:
Ex 3:4b GOD CALLED unto him out of the midst of the bush
Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Ex 3:7a And the LORD said
“We see in the account of the burning bush that it is by means of his Angel that the Lord comes among people (v.2) and that when the Angel comes, the Lord himself is present (4)” (Alex Moyter, The Message of Exodus, BST, p.51).
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
The God-being that God in the OT spoke to the prophets through was the Angel of the Lord, who also was God and Lord.
Ex 3:14a And God said unto Moses, I [ego] AM [eimi] (LXX).
Jn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I [ego] AM [eimi].
“The use of “I am” as a name is reminiscent of Exodus (even though the Hebrew is rather different, where “God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM’ ” (NIV). It is noteworthy that this encounter began with God telling Moses, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob” (Exod 3:6, NIV), the very passage Jesus cited in the synoptic Gospels as proof that Abraham was still alive (see Mk 12:27 and par)...
“Hear in John’s Gospel, among the Pharisees ... The real question is not “is there a resurrection?” [as among the Sadducees] but “Who do you make yourself to be?” (v.53).
“Jesus’ answer is unequivocal, and deeply offensive. Instead of citing Exodus 3:6 as a word of Scripture, HE BOLDLY MAKES GOD’S PRONOUNCEMENT TO MOSES HIS OWN: “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I am.” To the reader it sounds unfinished, but Jesus had no need to finish it. His hearers can finish it for themselves: I am the God of Abraham, the God if Isaac and the God of Jacob,”...This is as close as the Gospel’s opening words, “and the Word was God,” come to being made explicit on Jesus’ own lips” (J. Ramsay Michaels, The Gospel of John, NICNT, p.535).
God was the disciples God (cp. Jn 20:17b); but Jesus Christ was also the disciples God as the “Son of God”
So God was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; and Jesus Christ was also Abraham’s, Isaac’s and Jacob’s God as The Angel of the Lord.
Jn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son ... he hath declared him.
Moses by seeing The Angel of the Lord saw God; just as Philip seeing The Son of God saw the Father.
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