It is that time of year as COG members are scurrying about preparing to head off to various Feast of Tabernacle sites around the world. Excitement is in the air as foreign destinations promise exciting adventures. Children fret about being pulled from school for 10-12 days, missing loads of lessons and homework. Parents have to take off work, sometimes using vacation pay and other times with no pay at all. Some have built up sizable 2nd tithe funds for grand adventures as others struggle to have enough money for gas and accommodations at some Feast sites.
Ministers receive their large Feast stipend checks from HQ as they make reservations at resorts that provide them free rooms where they get to pull out old Feast sermons from years before and recycle their message. Seriously ask yourself when have you EVER heard an original sermon at the Feast that was unique and truly memorable? We can all probably write out ahead of time the seven points that will be delivered and check them off one by one as you are bored out of your mind. If you are listening to Bob Thiel you will get to hear his 45+ speaking points during each sermon. Imagine how fun that checklist would be!
Then, add to that the expectation that you will be dumping hundreds of dollars into offering baskets during this time, and suddenly the fun is a little less. But it has been ingrained in all that we must sacrifice and be tested so this is a test, one of an endless stream of tests COG members are subjected to in the church.
But never mind those trials, God has personally picked out this Feast site for you to attend at. God sent his angels, unbeknownst to the various resort owners, to scout out locations for a celebration focused upon old covenant teachings. The angels scoured the surrounding area for hotels and fun activities for members to engage in, or better yet, skip services and go and really have fun at. Never once should you imagine a team of men sitting around a table discussing Feast site locations and which would offer the most opportunities for members. That NEVER happens! But, if it did, then God personally impregnated their minds with those specific locations where members can have fun.
Every COG makes this claim, so the one below from Rick Schabi represents them all:
We embrace that vision of God’s Kingdom and show Him our desire and faith in Him by leaving our homes to go to the place where He has put His name. We stay there all seven days of the Feast, plus the Eighth Day, living in temporary dwellings. And our focus while there is on that Kingdom and living in the “zone” with each other apart from the world.
Apart from the world? Yeah, right. You picked convention centers or locations in some of the busiest towns and/or some of the best resorts. Members are no more apart from the world than they are at Winter Family Weekends held at resorts decked out to the nines with Christmas decorations.
There will be few sermons at the Feast discussing Jesus, and if he is mentioned it is that he is really ticked off and so angry that he is coming back to punish people, kill a whole bunch and THEN usher in peace and glory of his Dad's kingdom.
Chag Sameach!
33 comments:
I know I did not grow up in Armstrongism, but what has this got to do with Christianity? This is not a recognized practice in any Christian denomination I can think of. I pray I have not offended anybody and, if I have, my sincere apologies. It's just that I cannot link any of this to what is clearly outlined in the New Testament for believers. Is this BI influence?
On the lighter side, do folks really think God wants to hang out in Branson, Missouri with Bob Thiel? Did he have to have another dream to find out where God wanted him to go preach his nonsense?
The ACOGs claim that it's God rather than a team of men that chooses the feast sites, since they frown on members exercising significant personal responsibilities.
This is the case in all totalitarian social systems.
From a Biblical perspective, God has ONLY EVER chosen ONE place to place "his" name - that is Jerusalem! Most theologians refer to this as the "Law of the Central Sanctuary," and it is portrayed in the Torah as an ESSENTIAL element in the proper observance of ALL of the festivals - NOT just the Feast of Tabernacles. Indeed, the Torah makes VERY CLEAR that NO other feast site would be acceptable to God!
With regards to DW's comments, you are absolutely right! While ALL of these festivals point to Jesus Christ, they are components of the OLD covenant. The Council of Jerusalem made clear that Gentile Christians would NOT be required to adhere to the tenets of God's covenant with Israel - that they would NOT have to become Jews to be Christians. Christ had to fulfill the requirements outlined in the Torah as part of his work, he and his apostles were JEWS, and Jerusalem and the temple were still available until the year 70 CE (when the Roman destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem rendered observance of the provisions outlined in the Torah impossible).
Zech 14:18-19: nations will be punished if they do not, in the future, observe the feast of tabernacles. In the NT Pentecost and the days of unleavened bread are mentioned as existing...... after Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.
Interestingly, Ezekiel 44 also shows us that the Levitical system along with sacrifices and burnt offerings will be set up in the future also- and why don't we do that today? Hebrews 8 shows us some important things:
:6- But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises
:13- In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away
I dont believe that God will reinstitute an old system that has been made obsolete and is inferior to the ministry of Jesus. So where do we stand with versus such as Zech 14 and Ezekiel 44? I believe that it most likely represents covenantal faithfulness (an important concept)- this is how it was expressed and understood in those days, that people who followed God would perform sacrifices and go to Jerusalem to keep the feasts. There is no legal requirement in the New Covenant to keep the feasts (those who say there is, do you go to Jerusalem? Do you make booths of palms? Do you blow a trumpet on trumpets?) Not even the priests (nor the high preist) had the authority to change the place where God places His name "forever" or to change "the law".
Seriously ask yourself when have you EVER heard an original sermon at the Feast that was unique and truly memorable?
I think I'm about due for the "phone book" sermon again. I've seen it at Feasts at least twice - where the speaker rips out sections of the Yellow Pages which will no longer be needed with the Kingdom comes.
And the way phone books are going out of style, the ripping probably will be a lot easier.
Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix said: "From a Biblical perspective, God has ONLY EVER chosen ONE place to place "his" name - that is Jerusalem! Most theologians refer to this as the "Law of the Central Sanctuary," and it is portrayed in the Torah as an ESSENTIAL element in the proper observance of ALL of the festivals - NOT just the Feast of Tabernacles. Indeed, the Torah makes VERY CLEAR that NO other feast site would be acceptable to God"
Where in the Torah is Jerusalem mentioned? NOWHERE. What is mentioned is, for example, Deut 12:5-7 where God "will choose". If that is Jerusalem, then Israel was in blatant disobedience for hundreds of years. The truth is, that place was Shiloh, until God was so disgusted with Israel's behavior that He removed His name from there.
To say that the Torah makes Jerusalem "ESSENTIAL" and that the Torah makes this "VERY CLEAR" is absolutely 100% wrong.
Every baptised Christian becomes a spiritual Jew, which makes them a Israelite as well. So yes, the OT festivals apply to all those who have the holy spirit.
And tassles? And purification laws? And mixed garment/seeds? And the many other laws of the OT that even modern COGS don't "keep"? Paul says, there is neither Jew nor gentile, and was very clear that one does not need to become a jew (officiallised through circumcision) to be a Christian.
2 Kings 21:7- ...the LORD said to David and to Solomon his son, “In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put my name forever.
1 Chronicles 23:25 (ESV) For David said, “The LORD, the God of Israel, has given rest to his people, and he dwells in Jerusalem forever.
2 Chronicles 33:4 (ESV) And he built altars in the house of the LORD, of which the LORD had said, “In Jerusalem shall my name be forever.”
2 Chronicles 33:7 (ESV) And the carved image of the idol that he had made he set in the house of God, of which God said to David and to Solomon his son, “In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put my name forever,
When asked whether one needs to keep the Feast in Jerusalem, Jesus replied, "John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
John 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him"
Thank you, Lonnie for the confirmation. Much appreciated! The subject of their holy days has long confounded me and I often forget the long, long tentacles of BI that touch every doctrine in Armstrongism.
To Anon @3:38...please see Lonnie's comments! Unless you were born a Jew, we Gentile converts are not spiritual Jews. As stated above, Paul made clear over and over again, that now (on this side of the cross), there is neither Jew nor Gentile. All are one in Christ Jesus. That means the Old Covenant laws, Sabbaths and festivals (holy days), dietary rules, etc are obsolete. Paul even goes so far as to say that by practicing Old Covenant tenets, you are nullifying the Cross of Christ and have fallen from God's grace.
Fun fact: the word Tabernacles comes from the Latin word Tabernaculum, which is a structure housing the augers giving their satanic predictions to the Roman general….who stayed right besides the tabernaculum.
In other words, the COGs use pagan terms constantly in their dogma and really have no idea what they are doing or understand what the words even mean….much like the pagan word “church”.
Anonymous @ Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 2:57:00 PM PDT,
You noted in your remarks that the Law of the Central Sanctuary was framed in the future tense - the place he WILL CHOOSE to place his name. Obviously, that place was NOT named in the Torah. Moses was NOT allowed to cross over the Jordan into the Promised Land. Under Moses and Aaron's leadership, the Tabernacle was used. Nevertheless, the book of Deuteronomy makes plain that this was a temporary circumstance, and that God would make a choice sometime in the future. As Anonymous @ Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 4:17:00 PM PDT points out, the subsequent writing of the Old Testament make clear that that choice eventually rested on Jerusalem. There is no getting around this - OT prophets also make clear that Jerusalem will once again enjoy this designation in the Messiah's kingdom, and Zechariah even makes plain that this will once again be the ONLY acceptable feast site. Notice too that Christ and his apostles always kept the festivals at Jerusalem.
Anonymous @ Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 4:31:00 PM PDT,
Your observation about Christ's remarks makes clear that Christians acting under the dispensation of the NEW Covenant would worship God in a very different manner than the Jews, Israelites and Samaritans had under the terms of the OLD Covenant. Christian worship is founded in Spirit and truth, NOT in places and physical observances!
Is this article post a parody ? Gave me quite a chuckle.
In answer to opening question: yes and in reply to rest: what feast sites have you attended ?
Let me guess.....
I always believed it was God choosing the sites (especially Big Sandy and Pasadena, St. Pete, the Dels and Tucson seemed special too) until they showed one particular video at the Feast of Tabernacles. After Mr. Tkach took over they showed a video where they stated that they make presentations to different city councils across the country. They talked mainly about the money the city will make from having a Feast site there. The councils that said Yes got a Feast site. I was speechless. Still am.
Then why have a Bible? I mean seriously, what is the purpose of reading the Bible if all of the laws, which represent God's character, are nullified by that very same book. Seems to me that is logic straight out of the Devil's playbook.
Feast of Tabernacles will be kept in the Kingdom of God.
Mark Wolfe,
God intended for the Bible to make us aware of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and what God expects from (and intends for) us. Paul said that Scripture was useful for reprimanding and correcting us and instructing us about how to live righteously. The Torah outlined the terms of God's covenant with the people of Israel. Jesus fulfilled its requirements for us and taught that all of those dos and don'ts were based on two principles: Love for God and each other. Christ incorporated these principles into the terms of the NEW covenant, and he went on to indicate that love for each other would be the very thing that would identify his followers to the rest of the world. Paul said that these principles fulfilled the requirements of the Torah for Christians going forward. In other words, NOTHING was done away with or nullified. Christ simply fulfilled and transformed what was recorded in the Old Testament. He revealed that ALL of that stuff pointed to him and his work on our behalf! Finally, it is binary thinking (either/or logic) that is really "straight out of the Devil's playbook."
Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix,
I would agree with everything you said, with the possible exception of the timing when this occurs.
Did this ultimate fulfillment occur at Calvary or the 2nd Advent?
Clearly, there is emphasis in the superiority of Christ's blood in cleansing God's people from their sins.
However, it appears to me that the work of cleansing and removing sins has a past, present and a future aspect. The last of these is accomplished and fulfilled at His 2nd coming.
Judaism focuses too much on the past aspects. Christianity jumps to a future yet to be fulfilled. The COGs focus on men claiming titles belonging to Christ.
Not much out there is balanced in my opinion.
I think Big Sandy was originally picked because the Hammers sold HWA the property pretty cheap. Why else would somebody pick Big Sandy Texas?
Big Sandy is somewhat centrally located, the church owned the land, and it is a pleasant place to visit during the fall. The water from the big tabernacle water fountains? Yuck-a-padoola! Very brackish. And it was that way still at SEP.
I'm sure that some miraculous spiritual embelishments were added to the story of the Hammers, and the transfer of the land.
As a Yankee-boy, I really enjoyed the opportunities to travel in the South each Fall. Beautiful country, and very picturesque. Backwards in race relations during that era, but much had changed by the time of subsequent visits during the 1980s and '90s.
I went to ACBS back in 1988 for one semester…that’s all I could take of that place….it completely sucked and the entire WCG empire was collapsing…one of the worst times of my life. When I heard that they were burning Mystery of the Ages I knew it was over and I left.
Millar Jones writes:
“From a Biblical perspective, God has ONLY EVER chosen ONE place to place "his" name - that is Jerusalem!”
But.
Jer 7:12 Go now to my place that was in Shiloh, where I made my name dwell at first...
[Dt 12:11 then to the place that the LORD your God will choose, to make his name dwell there...]
Ps 78:60 So that he forsook the tabernacle of Shiloh, the tent which he placed among men;
Ps 78:67 Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:
Ps 78:68 But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.
Following on from Mark Wolfe’s comment:
Part 1
Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holies [hagia], not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
from context, “holies” = the Most Holy Place; cp. Lev 16:16; (in Heb 9:2 = the holy place).
Lev 4:15b and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD.
Lev 4:16 And the priest that is anointed shall bring of the bullock's blood to the tabernacle of the congregation:
.Lev 4:20b and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Heb 9:23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
"[The] "heavenly things" had to be purified by Christ's sacrifice at the beginning of his priestly ministry in God's temple (Heb 9:23), just as the earthly sanctuary received purgation when Aaron and his sons were consecrated (9:21; cf. Lev. 8:15 - outer altar). Thus "the New Testament does not limit the application of Christ's blood to cleansing the person, it also affirms that the sanctuary has been purified by the blood of Christ so that we have access to the heavenly court" [Ross, Holiness to the Lord, 136]. If Christ's better sacrifice has this function at the beginning of his ministry, perhaps it also cleanses the heavenly sanctuary later on in some way that is analogous to the purgation accomplished by the Israelite high priest on the Day of Purgation" (Roy Gane, Leviticus/Numbers, NIVAC, p.295).
Lev 16:16 And he shall make an atonement for the [Most] holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation [holy place], that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
" "The Sanctuary" is the primary expression the pastor uses to describe the place Christ had entered as High Priest on our behalf. The interpreter who would understand Hebrews must carefully note the two ways in which the pastor identifies this place. First, "the Sanctuary" is "heaven itself" (9:24). This assertion alone would appear to exclude a two-part Temple in heaven. Second, this "Sanctuary" is clearly "the Most Holy Place" of God's presence "behind the veil" (6:19). Thus the Tent into which Christ has entered consists of a Most Holy Place which is heaven itself..." (Gareth Lee Cockerill, The Epistle to the Hebrews, NICOT, pp.354-55).
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shown to thee in the mount.
Cockerill’s assertion does not necessary follow.
It is suggested that Christ will enter the heavenly holy place, by the means of his own blood, to complete the typology of the Day of Atonement. That is in relation to Christ ‘first appearance,’ the typology of the ‘cleansing’ of the Most Holy Place was fulfilled; in relation to Christ appearing the “second time” (Heb 9:28) the ‘cleansing’ of the Holy Place’/Tent of Meeting will be fulfilled.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenlies
Typology suggests that Satan and the demons presently occupy the heavenly holy place. With the heavenly holy place rededicated Christ and the Saints can take up ‘residence’ in the lower realm of heaven during the Millennium/Messianic Age.
Part 2
Eze 45:18 “Thus says the Lord GOD: In the first month, on the first day of the month, you shall take a bull from the herd without blemish, and purify the sanctuary.
Eze 45:19 The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the temple, the four corners of the ledge of the altar, and the posts of the gate of the inner court.
Eze 45:20 You shall do the same on the seventh day of the month for anyone who has sinned through error or ignorance; so you shall make atonement for the temple. (ESV).
In the New Covenant atonement for the temple, and the people, will occur in the first month of the year; as opposed to the seventh month under the Old Covenant. Under the OC blood was applied in relation to three sancta - the Most Holy Place, Holy Place and Altar of Burnt Offering; in the NC the three are “the doorposts of the temple, the four corners of the ledge of the [outer] altar, and the posts of the [east?]gate of the inner court.”
Anonymous Friday, September 30, 2022 at 2:10:00 AM PDT,
Nice try at a "GOTCHA" - your comment, however, is a classic example of taking a verse out of context and twisting it to support your own thesis! God's name only dwelled at Shiloh in the sense that the Tabernacle was there for a time after the Israelites entered the Promised Land. I mentioned the Tabernacle in my remarks in the context of a TEMPORARY representation of God's presence among the people. The Torah makes clear that the Tabernacle was temporarily at the center of Israelite worship because the Ark of the Covenant was to be housed there. This connection is also made clear in the books of Joshua and Judges, and it underscores the significance of David's decision to bring the Ark to Jerusalem.
In the seventh chapter of Jeremiah, the prophet pointed out that the people's sinful behavior was not consistent with their superficial attempts to "worship" God. They were claiming that the presence of the Temple acted like a kind of lucky charm - protecting them from their enemies. The prophet encouraged them to go back and examine the history of the Ark's presence among the people. In other words, the Ark had been regarded in much the same way by their ancestors, but this had NOT prevented them from being overwhelmed by their enemies. The NET underscores this by translating the verse you referenced as "So, go to the place in Shiloh where I allowed myself to be worshiped in the early days. See what I did to it because of the wicked things my people Israel did." In the NLT, the same verse is translated as "Go now to the place at Shiloh where I once put the Tabernacle that bore my name. See what I did there because of all the wickedness of my people, the Israelites." In this sense, I suppose one could say that every place where the Tabernacle and the Ark rested bore God's name for a while (because those things represented God's presence among the Israelites), BUT no reasonable student of the Bible would suggest that this is the equivalent of God placing his name at Jerusalem! Moreover, the seventy-eighth Psalm reinforces this point.
I would encourage you to read Solomon's prayer of dedication for the Temple which he had constructed for God's name to dwell in the eighth chapter of I Kings. Notice too God's response to Solomon in the following chapter. God said: "I have heard your prayer and your petition. I have set this Temple apart to be holy—this place you have built where my name will be honored forever. I will always watch over it, for it is dear to my heart." (Verse 3) Notice too, that this is followed by the same warning which the prophet Jeremiah delivered to the descendants of these people many years later (verses 6-9). Notice too, that this story about the Temple in Jerusalem is repeated in the sixth and seventh chapters of II Chronicles. We read there that God told Solomon: "For I have chosen this Temple and set it apart to be holy—a place where my name will be honored forever. I will always watch over it, for it is dear to my heart." (7:16)
Hence, it is clear that Shiloh (or any of the other myriad places where the Tabernacle and Ark rested during Israel's wanderings or early occupation of the Promised Land) NEVER enjoyed the designation which was given to Jerusalem! Those other places NEVER bore God's name in the same way that the Temple at Jerusalem did (and the entire context of both the Old and New Testaments support this point). Once again, the "Law of the Central Sanctuary" explicitly stated that there would only be ONE place designated for the festivals to be observed (see Deuteronomy 12 and 16).
All this back-and-forth used to be stimulating for me to read but now it's just another bunch of you guys going back-and-forth over the same old same old. Nobody wins here. It's everybody's interpretation at the end of the day. We all need to just wait and see and try to live in this world that we have to live in. Sorry that's just how I feel
Hi Millar Jones, it appears that I have given you offense by my response, this was not my intention. Sorry about this.
Hopefully we can agree to disagree.
Just a couple of comments, especially in light of the comment at 12:50:
Jos 18:10 And Joshua cast lots for them in Shiloh before the LORD:
2Ch 20:18b and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD.
“Implication now becomes statement. Go, please, to my place that was at Shiloh. “Place” now has an explicitly narrower reference, to “the place where I live, my sanctuary.” Shiloh, midway between Bethel and Shechem, had once been the location of Israel’s sanctuary and of the pledge chest (see, e.g., 1 Sam 1-4)... It had been where I had my name dwell at the first: Yahweh rings changes on the way he speaks about his name and about his dwelling, now using a form of words used in Deut 12:11; 14:23; 16:2, 6, 11; 26:2. As well as being proclaimed over his sanctuary, his name was proclaimed within it. It means he was really there, because the name embodies the person (see 3:17 and the commentary on it). Shiloh would have been the original place to which Deuteronomy’s words applied (they are otherwise used only in Neh 1:9)” (John Goldingay, The Book of Jeremiah, NICOT, p.243).
Jer 7:12 But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first,
Ne 1:9b yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there.
I have a number of commentaries by John Goldingay; what I like about him, is not only his expositions but he uses his own translation of the Hebrew.
“Many years before, the Israelites made their triannual pilgrimages to Shiloh, just as they now do to Jerusalem...
“These parallels with the temple in Jerusalem are drawn with unmistakable clarity, as Shiloh was the first place where Yahweh caused his name (see vv.10-11, 30) to dwell (cf. comment on v.3); thus, as he did to his house at Shiloh ... he will do to his house at Jerusalem...” (Michael Brown, Jeremiah, EBC, Revised, p.163).
In regards to Michael Brown:
“Michael grew up in a Jewish home, but the biggest event in his life at age 13 was not his Bar Mitzvah. It was seeing Jimi Hendrix in concert. Michael had been playing the drums since he was eight years old and was very talented. He wanted to become a famous rock drummer, and at 14, he was happy to follow in the footsteps of his musical role models by trying drugs. Pot lead to hash, then to uppers, downers, and LSD. At 15 he started shooting heroin.
“Then, his two best friends and members of his band started going to church. After several months, Michael went with them –to pull them out. He was losing his partying buddies and he didn’t like it. Eventually, he became aware of something that until that point he’d never really noticed: his sin. When he came to believe that Jesus died for his sins, he faced two problems – he didn’t want to give up his sin, and he was Jewish. Michael says:
“Yet somehow, God’s goodness and patience overcame my stubbornness, my pride, my sinful habits, and my religious misunderstandings. By the end of 1971 I was a new man! The heavenly Father intervened in my affairs, making me to know that I was guilty in His sight, exposing the corruption of my heart, and showing me a new and better way.”
“Today, Michael Brown is widely considered the world’s foremost Messianic Jewish apologist... He is a popular debater, defending the Bible and its doctrines in public forums around the world. (Jewishvoice.org/read/blog/meet-dr-michael-brown).
BTW, I don’t believe his claim that homosexuality is caused by childhood trauma.
The FOT as observed by Armstrongists is cultish. To mandate its members to travel to a city nationally or internationally and have a holiday for 8 days is immoral and unscriptural and proof it’s a man made cultish tradition of HWA.
In the OT the Israelites went to Jerusalem 3x a year for the 8 day festival of Passover/FOUB; Pentecost; and then Tabernacles/8th day. So why doesn’t the Armstrongists observe the other 2 pilgrim feasts like FOT?!
In the NT the Xians were all over the world like now so they didn’t need to observe the festivals in Jerusalem. They were free as we are now to observe them locally ie wherever they were living. Imo they should change the FOT mandate and keep it like they do PO/UB in local congregations and give members the freedom to choose where to celebrate the holy days. Just like American Xians have no mandate to keep Pascha/Xmas or Thanksgiving in a certain place but can go wherever they want to keep it.
Further, the tithe was never on money but animals and crops so it and second and third tithes are irrelevant to the observance of holy days.
12:50, how do you define "winning"? Would that be if an opponent changed his or her mind as a result of discussion? One could not blame you if that were your outlook.
Personally, I define winning not as an in the moment event, but in the long term scheme of things. Ideas can be presented in these discussions which cause others to think. Cumulatively, and with time, minds sometimes do change. A thought is planted, and it makes sense to the point at which it nags for resolution. I'd like to think of this as being a "win-win". However, the leaders of the ACOGs fear that particular outcome, which is why they do not want their members coming here to be gradually "groomed" away from their control. In the end, hopefully truth will triumph over Armstrongism, and that hope is what motivates many of us to remain around. Personally, I don't think of who wins or loses. The ones on the opposite pole of the magnet (I prefer the small path of safety between the two poles) actually do not sign my paycheck. If they did, I'd find another job.
There is no Church of God in Lonnie, and I'm not out to convert anyone to anything. I also do not see this as a contest. My objective is to make folks think about what they believe and practice - to rekindle the ability to think for oneself and not just accept HWA's musings on Holy Day observance. I too think that it would be more reasonable, consistent and sustainable for folks to observe all of the festivals with their local congregations. However, I would also hope that everyone is able to see and acknowledge that whether you are doing it locally or going to Big Sandy/Myrtle Beach/Branson/etc. - you are NOT fulfilling the standard set down in the Torah! Let's not delude ourselves. After all, we shouldn't criticize others for not observing what we ourselves are not observing!
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