The following was a comment today on another thread:
They just announced today in church that they're putting their sermons on their website under lock down. You now have to register and have a password to watch/listen to sermons! How is that making the gospel available to the world!? SMH....they're doing the exact same thing as LCG and PCG. Stop saying you want to preach the gospel to the world and then hide it away behind permissions and passwords. What you're really doing is exerting control. Can't any group do something different for a change without all following down the same controlling, cult-like path???
Why is it that most of the larger Church of God groups hide behind member walls? Do they now realize how embarrassing their sermons are and how little of what they say is of substance? They all claim coming intense persecution, but none of them have the balls to publicly say what they believe. Now they cower behind "paywalls". Ever since Herbert went around the world talking about a "strong hand from someplace" the ministry and splinter leaders have followed in that same pathway. Unable to really explain God, Jesus, grace, etc. they instead spout the same canned sermons you would have heard 40 years ago in the church.
34 comments:
.they're doing the exact same thing as LCG and PCG
Please don't be a liar. LCG's sermons are not locked down.
Interesting. LCG at one time did in fact lock down their sermons. I remember exploring their website a few years ago and noticing that. But that seems to have changed -- definitely a good decision.
Requiring someone to create an ID and password is extremely common in today’s technology age, it’s not like they’re charging for it. Heck, most news sites require it if you even want to read an article. I’d be more concerned if the password was only shared with official members. LCG appears to be a little more open whereas COGWA only seems to post from very select speakers.
It's not true right now. UCG.org has a "sermon" tab where you can watch messages - largely featuring President Shabi at the moment.
But UCG is updating its website, and it's had some problems.
This goes to show that nothing ever really changes. Their Linus blanket is the old bushel basket! They wish to operate inCOGnito. It's like families remaining at home with their lights out on Halloween when it was a really big thing, or the local minister and the church having unlisted numbers in the dinosaur days of Bell Telephone.
Comment was stated saying:
"What you're really doing is exerting control. Can't any group do something different for a change without all following down the same controlling, cult-like path???"
******
I personally see no reason why the United Ass. should "lock down" their messages, as the organization seems to be stuck in HWA times. Since 1995, where has the Ass. grown in grace and knowledge: does anyone know and can explain it?
But control? Yes, following is the memo sent to Victor Kubik by a minister regarding our hopes for Indianapolis. It was read by Vic Kubik on May 2, 1995, the last day of the Indianapolis Conference, to all attending (included about 150 “elders,” mates, “etc.), and the end of that memo explains concern about control:
*******
PIE IN THE SKY is what the detractors say. Some of them are us, you know. Our “leaders” have already laid foundations and are even laying superstructure. The meek words of just a few weeks ago… “We’ve just started this in case it’s of any help, but we’ll gladly dissolve it” are seemingly replaced with corporate structure lauding the wisdom of “follow me.” Has “unity” already slipped to a cliché, a buzzword of egotists? I’ve seen that once people invest time, money and gain supporters they “have God’s blessing.” After all, they prayed about it.
Dissolution of their structure for a greater cause becomes too great a defeat. The show must go on.
WHAT IS INDY? It’s a chance for a ground up, New Testament organized body of believers.
WHAT WILL INDY BE? I know what you and I want it to be. But do you know what many see it as? Separate leaders of several pre-formed groups pushing their system at each other, followed by the winner selling it to the ministry. The ministry is invited to view the outcome and cast in their lot, depending on who "wins" and if they like the smell of it.
WHO LOOSES IF INDY FALTERS? The churches back home. The little flocks who are staking their faith in Indy. The loyal pastors who have forfeited everything to wait on Christ and to come learn his will for their next step. I hope He’s there. He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
Just some concerns and fears…I don’t know what it WILL be, I know what it MIGHT be and what it CAN be. I’ll be there in support. Be careful who gets control. Make sure it’s God.
*******
Of course God by the power of His Spirit through His Son Jesus Christ would be in control of His Church: God's Church, but the United Association?
Did God have anything to do with the United Ass., and/or any of the numerous other splinter groups headed up by hirelings of the former WCG, who all think they will do so much better than HWA. God knows who are His, and He knows the gates of hell won't prevail against His Church, wherever it is (Church prophecy/history is specified in Rev 2-3, and God can't lie!).
So far, it appears that United Ass was just set up to sustain $mammon$ for ministry and their retirement, but that is probably also true for all of the split-off groups. So, why some "lock down" on sermons. Did the United Ass. discover something "new under the sun," and now wants to hide it...like putting their candle under a vail?
Time will tell...
John
Church of God, The Eternal is just another culprit of this behavior. You not only have to be a member, but one in good standing according to the criteria set by their head Pharisee. Letting your light shine? Spreading the gospel? As you have been given, freely give? Biblical I think not. Exclusive with a diotrophene leader for sure.
The COG has always held its sermons too precious to be heard by unconverted ears. The unwashed masses are too stupid or too antagonistic to listen and understand the pure truth of Armstrongism. Hide it away so that when the persecution starts, the invaders cannot use it against you. Satan will know but will be too stupid to understand how to get behind the "Members Only" wall.
This goes back a while, but when I was watching Kenneth Copeland, I found many of his guest speakers far superior in their content to the ACOG ministers.
He had one guest speaker, 5 days in a row by himself, who used the whole time explaining how the holy spirit leads each Christian individually. The holy spirit put a thought with that unique feeling confirming what the man said. Yet I've never read in HWA literature any mention of this. And this goes back to the mid 1960s. So the "pagan" Christians taught the truth on this matter, but "government is everything" HWA hid that Christ leads Christians individually. This is Herb and his minion ministers usurping Christ's role.
UCG sermons by many different speakers are freely available and extremely easy to find on YouTube and other main social media platforms.
To make the claim they are hiding sermons away is a flimsy accusation that has no roots and in my opinion smacks of desperation.
Whilst the author of this post is free to write honest reviews of UCG sermons, would the author if living in a parallel universe and giving sermons themselves in UCG allow such ? I very much doubt it.
Right you are! They think they're Jesus, speaking so that some won't understand. And, they make themselves appear to be wise as doves and harmless as serpents in so doing. They make themselves look so shady, and cultic, not to be trusted.
Indy meetings of 1995 are only beloved of a minority of those in attendance at the meetings and a smaller minority further afield.
It didn't make any waves within the wider Church of God world where it was unfortunately greatly overshadowed by the antics and fall of Garner Ted Armstrong and barely none knew of its existence.
It was also a missed opportunity to not release the full speeches of the speakers at the time. Repeatedly showing only 30 second clips of Dennis Luker, making a impassioned speech with no context of what he meant and Victor Kubic sounding like his Serene Highness fresh from WCG Ministerial services only served against the original purpose and no wider audience had a clue about these spectacular speeches.
The continued decades long angst of what could have been only serves to produce mistrust.
Whilst as a footnote to history, it is greatly ironic that from the fall of Garner Ted the original CGI split into freely governed, separate individual churches with their own church boards, deciding for themselves..govening themselves with no huge HQ required....isn't that what the Indy meetings supposedly wanted.
I think this is a way to coerce people to make a decision especially in light of what’s taking place in GCI . In effect the UCG is saying you are with us or stay outside of us. They are acutely aware that many do listen in but remain on the sidelines. This decision forces those to make that choice.No more staying on the sidelines
Just checked the UCG website. Since I dislike handing over personal information, I've never had a username or password with UCG. I also typically block most browser cookies.
I have no trouble finding the Sermons tab, entering a name or subject, and getting search results. I can play sermons going back 20 years without being asked for a password.
The search function has indeed been updated. It has been "simplified", with only one search field presented, Google-style. Previous to this, people could search by a combination of subject, speaker, and date range by filling in multiple blanks.
Perhaps the original poster is thinking about live services? The streams for live services typically require a generic password that most interested viewers already know. There is nothing new about this practice.
Libro
We were told the rest of the world is not being called by God right now. We literally were told that to help the world is to fight against God. We were even discouraged from giving to charity because of this. Those printed materials and television shows were never intended to bring the world to repentance. We did it for us! We preached to the world so we could feel superior.
Anon 2:47:08 asked: "...Whilst as a footnote to history, it is greatly ironic that from the fall of Garner Ted the original CGI split into freely governed, separate individual churches with their own church boards, deciding for themselves..govening themselves with no huge HQ required....isn't that what the Indy meetings supposedly wanted...."
Yes, that was the initial original intent, but as time did tell: United headed into the direction of producing a worldwide Church of God number 2.
It was all for a man-made organization that used balloting, voting, to choose their top leader and numerous leaders have changed many times over the years... Instead of having one leader as was the case with HWA.
The United association, like so many of the xcog groups have to choose their own leaders, because God has not provided them with one, but time is telling.
If God cannot work through one man, then why would anybody think that God could work through some counsel of 12 men or whatever number would be part of that counsel?
Somebody had a sign once that said that God so so loved the world that He did not send a committee. United association has lots of committees. Should that tell us something?
Can any church be God's Church if it is run and controlled by committees, counselors, men voting themselves in and out of office?
Time will tell...
John
"We preached to the world so we could feel superior".
When did you acquire the superpower to read others minds?
There is a fundamental Gnostic tendency in Armstrongism. This manifested in the old WCG as a belief that the strong content of a sermon was too much for a novice and for this reason sermons were for mature members only. This is from Google AI, the lazy man's research assistant:
"Yes, Gnostics believed that not everyone could receive special knowledge, known as "gnosis," which was considered a key element to salvation and only accessible to a select few who had attained a higher level of spiritual understanding; essentially, they believed this special knowledge was reserved for a small group of enlightened individuals".
The real question is not so much if sermons are locked down (the jury seems to be out) but whether or not Armstrongists are secretive in general. I think they certainly were but I don't know about now.
Jesus did speak in parables that concealed meaning at a certain time. Some of the ideas he might have presented could be so controversial in the Plestinean context, that they might have resulted in harm to his ministry and his disciples. Later, when the time was right, he wanted the Gospel preached everywhere. This is way different from the Gnostic theme of Armstrongism.
Scout
The COGs are getting a bit uncomfortable with their Herbisms.........??
The holy days of Yahweh are the weekly sabbath, Nisan 14-20, 8th "Sunday" after Nisan 14, Tishri 15-21, and historically the 3 annual sabbaths added because of transgressions, now removed, on Tishri 1, 10, 22. Tithing, now removed, historically was storing up 10% of an annual harvest once every three years and given to about 3.3% of the population, and collecting 10% of the harvest every year and kept by the tither to observe the 3 annual festivals.
????????
Did any of the divine prophets predict the fall of Syria? Didn't think so. Dumb shits.
Giving to charity is often flushing money down the drain and enabling drug addictions.
The victory of al queda in Syria will be celebrated by the dumb "prophets" intoxicated on Western media B.S.
Didn't the Apostle Paul preach and whole city came out.
The whole city came out? Another exaggeration in the Bible.
All cults exert control. America is increasingly controlling. Even their own embassy staff have their feeds cut off when the speaker says what the staff are not supposed to hear.
xHWA said
"We were told the rest of the world is not being called by God right now."
Yes I've heard that often.
"We literally were told that to help the world is to fight against God."
I've never heard this.
"We were even discouraged from giving to charity because of this."
Well not exactly. I _have_ heard that giving to charity is "not providing the real spiritual solutions that the world needs" and we should focus on the spiritual commission. But that was in the context of the church's commission. Individual members should be a light to the world, in both "giving an answer for our faith" and giving to help the needs of those around us.
"Those printed materials and television shows were never intended to bring the world to repentance. We did it for us! We preached to the world so we could feel superior."
That's not what I've heard people say. Only that God calls whom He wills, and we should spread the message as much as we possibly can, and then God calls and changes hearts according to His will and purpose.
Jesus Christ chose 12 disciples which throws "one man from God" argument out of the window.
Ronald Dart for years made the case that WCG was not in reality built up by only Herbert Armstrong but by many much younger men.
Anon, Monday, December 9, 2024 at 12:12:07 AM PST, wrote:
Jesus Christ chose 12 disciples which throws "one man from God" argument out of the window.
Ronald Dart for years made the case that WCG was not in reality built up by only Herbert Armstrong but by many much younger men.
******
Yes, Jesus Christ, under His Father's inspiration, chose 12 men, and who was in charge?
None of those 12 men were in charge over all, and one of them was eventually going to be inspired by Satan the Devil to betray the One man, 100% human, who was in charge: Jesus Christ.
For 3 1/2 years Jesus Christ was the only member of God's Church. Jesus said that of Himself He could do nothing, but He was inspired by God, that God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob (Acts 3:13), by the power of His Spirit to become the Head of God's Church. Again, at the time, Jesus was the only member. God's Church had a beginning, and that was after Jesus Christ was baptized and sealed by the power of God's Spirit. Others would later be sealed to be part of God's Church.
On Pentecost, God began to develop more of His Church by the addition of more members, even approximately 3,000 in one day, and it does appear that Peter was the man in charge, but Jesus Christ was still the Head of God's Church.
That makes sense from the perspective that when Jesus Christ asked His disciples to say who He was, and Jesus learned that God the Father was working with Peter who gave the answer of: "...Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:16
Jesus admitted that Peter did not come with that anwer with any of his "great intellect," guessing abilities, anything of Peter. What did Jesus say?
Matthew 16:17 "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
That God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jesus" God and Father, revealed it to only one man: Peter.
And Ron Dart? Who is he? For years, Ron made the case that: "... WCG was not in reality built up by only Herbert Armstrong but by many much younger men?"
What younger men? Men like Ron? Like GTA? Who? They all knew HWA was in charge, and if any disagreed with him it was "adios," wasn't it?
Apparently, HWA "forgot" he was in charge and strived to put his son, GTA, in charge, and what a mess that turned out to be. It may have happened more than once, and HWA had to talk about getting back on "the right track:" whatever that was. Regardless, it was one man in charge. Committees in charge result in confusion, and Satan was busy within God's Church (Rev 2-3, 2 Cor 11:13-15; 2 Thess 2:3-5, and elsewhere say so) and even with Jesus Christ still being the Head of God's Church.
Is God working out a plan to save all Israel, all mankind, and subsequently destroy Satan and his angels (2 Peter 2:12; Ezekiel 28:19, etc.). Did any of you/us lose out on salvation, because of all of the baloney we may have gone through in WCG while learning to hate evil (Psalm 97:10; Proverbs 8:13)?
Time will tell...
John
No John, HWA didn't strive to put GTA in charge. Rather GTA tried to usurp HWA's role during HWA's extensive travels over seas. When HWA returned, he put the STP project (the Slide Towards Protestantism) in the bin, and put GTA in his place.
When I wrote 12 disciples I meant the actual 12 disciples who went out doing the work of Jesus.
Obviously Mattias replaced Judas.
Why mention Judas?
Who mentioned Garner Ted ? Only you. Ron Dart was not so small minded as to mean only himself and Ted.
I get the impression different "blog members" take it in turns to use the established names on this blog.
Anon, Monday, December 9, 2024 at 11:08:51 PM PST, replied with a question:
"...When I wrote 12 disciples I meant the actual 12 disciples who went out doing the work of Jesus.
Obviously Mattias replaced Judas.
Why mention Judas?..."
******
Why Judas?
I mentioned Judas because he was among the 12 chosen disciples, named apostles:
Luke 6:13 "And when it was day, he called [unto him] his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
:14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
:15 Matthew and Thomas, James the [son] of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
:16 And Judas [the brother] of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor."
After Jesus' murder, death, becoming the first individual to be part of the "first resurrection" (there will be no 3rd resurrection), and approximately 50 days later, Matthiah was appointed by others: not Jesus.
Acts 1:23 "And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias."
Matthias was just another disciple, among many (e.g. a Joseph), who was associated with Jesus Christ during His ministry. Even Lazarus was a disciple (but that's another story), but Matthias, what was his background?
Acts 1:21 "Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection."
John
Are you really doing this? Arguing, wrangling over the least thing, Nit picking to death. For what reason? The truth? Yet the truth must be difficult to see when you have Epping Forrest in your own eyes.
Matthias is regarded by some as the replacement for Judas chosen through prayer and casting of lots. Different version's exist of how he died and what he did: from crucifixion to natural death: to teaching of Jesus as the Messiah in various parts of the world.
But regardless of some rejecting Matthias being an "official" apostle or not, one thing is clear, even from ancient history, the man Matthias was a believer and went out teaching about Jesus as the Messiah in difficult times.
Acts 1:26
Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles. (NIV)
Anon, Monday, December 9, 2024 at 10:06:10 PM PST, wrote:
No John, HWA didn't strive to put GTA in charge. Rather GTA tried to usurp HWA's role during HWA's extensive travels over seas. When HWA returned, he put the STP project (the Slide Towards Protestantism) in the bin, and put GTA in his place.
******
I reconsidered what I wrote, and I have to admit I didn't perhaps word things properly enough, and what you say makes more sense; however, at some point others around HWA, including perhaps HWA himself, thought that HWA did not have 100% control (note especially the last paragraph) like He used, especially 10 years earlier from the date of the following partial transcript of a HWA 30 July 1978 Co-worker letter, which states:
"...The Lord Jesus Christ, and the God after whom His Church is named were, under Ted's leadership little by little, being subtly pushed out of God's Church and of Ambassador College. It was becoming apparent to several.
One of several such letters just recently received says, "Thank God you are back where Christ wants you. Never before have we been so inspired by sermons or Bible Studies. For the past ten years, so many people, including myself, have noticed that something was wrong .... We noticed that for some reason we were not as inspired as we had been in the past. We felt there
was something missing .... In fact, all of the doctrines of God were treated as if they were not important ... we were sincere, but did not accomplish much because we lacked so much of the knowledge and faith that we once knew ... we were spinning our wheels and sliding backwards. To say the least, Mr. Armstrong, were heading .... I am glad that Christ has put you back in the pulpit to teach us ... we can actually understand it when you expound on it."
In my very painfully written letter, notifying you of the disfellowshipment of Garner Ted, I wrote you: "Now I come to something I have felt I had to withhold from you, brethren. During these past few years, when I sensed a CONSPIRACY to bring about a complete takeover of the entire Church's work -- virtually to put JESUS CHRIST out ... I attributed it entirely to Satan. for him -- because I have said to him I love him above all people on earth .... When Garner Ted maneuvered to shut off communication of what really was going on -- when he shut off all authority above him, he not only shut off God's Apostle, but also he shut off CHRIST AND GOD ALMIGHTY.
"Finally, a year ago the men next in authority under Ted came to me, begging me to TAKE ACTION. 'Your son, Mr. Armstrong,' they said, 'has been trying to DESTROY everything Christ has built through you, and build something for Garner Ted Armstrong.' "
His TV and radio programs were becoming secular, dealing in worldly politics, with sponsorship announced, not as Worldwide Church of God, who paid his salary, all production costs, and the cost of air-time, but as that of "Garner Ted Armstrong Productions." Everything was focused on featuring the name Garner Ted Armstrong -- instead of the name of the Church.
On follow-up outgoing mail to those responding to the programs, he abolished the "WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD" letterhead -- and instead, the letterhead was printed, "GARNER TED ARMSTRONG." With his picture beside it!
For more than a year those now in top administrative offices have implored me to step in and once again take over complete control, UNDER CHRIST -- as it was until some ten years ago. ..."
John
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