Dave Pack on devil children disrupting his sermons

The Church of God has always had a love/hate relationship with children.  It has always looked at them as potential money streams when they get older and they also find them horribly disruptive when they make noises in church services and take the focus away from God's most superfantabulous ministers. Countless articles have been written over the decades on how to train a child to behave in church. Every single one of them ended up expecting corporal punishment to be used to keep the kiddos in line and compliant. Nothing pisses off a COG minister more than a baby wailing during a service when he is expounding on point 137 during the most incredible sermon ever to be preached. Even women with short hair and wearing slacks in church is not as offensive as a bellowing baby or god-forbid a happy baby that makes surrounding members giggle.

Dave Pack writes:

Those who have been members of God’s Church for any length of time can relate to the following scenario: you are sitting in Sabbath services, listening to a sermonette, announcements or sermon. You are mindful of the importance of the time spent in God’s “classroom” each week, so you strive to listen carefully to the speaker (whether live or on CD) and take notes.

But, as you listen, you are challenged by the need to “tune out” a child who is talking, crying or otherwise making noise. Have you ever found yourself in this situation? If you are a parent, has your child ever been the source of noise during services?

Others in the Church, especially those who date back to the days of larger congregations in nearly every major and medium-sized city, may recall more serious disruptions on the Sabbath, even vandalism. Parents sometimes allowed children to leave services unaccompanied for a “restroom break”—who would then wreak havoc. This created friction with the owners or custodians of rented halls.

Do your children reflect a different standard of behavior from their peers, just as we should? And have they learned to behave during the time it matters most—at Sabbath services?

Heaven help any poor member who's child disrupts Daves sermons! This is almost on par with the unpardonable sin!

God holds parents accountable for how well they perform their duties in this most important stewardship: the development of future god-beings.

Within the government of the Church, the ministry holds parents accountable for their children’s behavior, just as God holds His ministers responsible for maintaining decency and order among His people (I Cor. 14:40). Negligence on the part of anyone in this chain can lead to serious consequences. Incidents of vandalism can lead to a congregation being evicted from a facility, which not only presents a major problem for the brethren and ministry, but also stains the reputation of the Church.

Apparently, the Restored Church of God is filled with rebellious devil children who wreak havoc and destroy rented halls all over the world.

In Armstrongism, children are corrupted by Satan the first moment they take a breathe. The devil controls them from that point on and it is the duty of the parent to make sure their children resist the devil. Notice how this nonsense still fills Dave's mind:

While children possess a certain innocence, many parents tend to think their children can do no wrong. Fathers and mothers look on them as extensions of themselves, which is natural. But the human tendency to justify the self is often transferred to your children’s actions as well.

God’s people should have a deeper understanding of human nature than those outside the Church. Scriptures such as Jeremiah 17:9 and Romans 8:7 describe the hearts that are in all human beings, including little ones.

Years ago, a news story confirmed what wise parents already knew: “Babies aren’t as innocent as they look, according to…research out of the United Kingdom. Sweet little infants actually learn to deceive before they can talk, says University of Portsmouth psychology department head Vasudevi Reddy in a study that challenges traditional notions of innocence while confirming many parents’ suspicions about their sneaky babies.

“Most psychologists have believed that children cannot really lie until about four years of age. But after dozens of interviews with parents, and years spent observing children, Dr. Reddy has determined that infants as young as seven months are quite skilled at pulling the wool over their parents’ eyes.

“Long before children can understand complex ideas about truth and deception…‘they are engaging in subtle manipulations of their own and others’ actions, which succeed in deceiving others at least temporarily.’

“There was the 11-month-old who, caught in the act of reaching for the forbidden soil of a house plant, quickly turned his outstretched hand into a wave, his mother reported to Dr. Reddy, ‘as though he was saying, “Oh, I wasn’t really going to touch the soil, Mom, I was waving at you.”’

“Fake crying is another trick babies learn early on to get attention, Dr. Reddy says. The researcher defines ‘fake’ crying as being more calculated than the usual ‘I’m tired/hungry/wet/hurt/lonely’ cries” (The Globe and Mail).

Keep this reality in mind when working with your sons and daughters!

The ministry strives to err on the side of mercy. But unless there has been a major misunderstanding of events involved, it is not productive to defend your child if he or she makes a mistake—which will happen. And parents should not take this personally. All children find their way into mischief by nature: “Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him” (Prov. 22:15).

The church inwardly knows that many of their teachings on child-rearing are not right, otherwise they would not caution parents to be careful when and how they discipline.

The proverb above leads to a central point: your children’s conduct on the Sabbath reflects how well you are training, correcting and disciplining them during the other six days of the week. What you sow on a daily basis, in terms of time spent teaching, will be reaped during the weekly commanded assembly.

It is crucial for parents to “practice” services at home. Strive to reproduce the Sabbath environment—sit your child at your feet, play a recorded sermon if possible, etc. Your instruction to them should be to be quiet and stay put, and violations of these rules should bring swift punishment—severe enough to make an impression and teach obedience.

(A note regarding physical discipline: be very cautious and discreet when in public places, such as hotels and meeting halls. Discipline should always be administered in private! Be aware of the laws regarding spanking in the state or country in which you live, and also at the location of your Feast site.) 

The church used to have "spanking tents" at Feast sites, at least those in the U.S. did.  Disruptive children were to be taken there and spanked.  Usually with a paddle, and certainly more than 5-10 swats. This tent was usually filled with screaming kids and angry parents. This only lasted a few years until people went to the press in the Pocono's with news of the horrific things going on in the tents.  They immediately disappeared.

Children in the church were never allowed to grow up and be children.  The same restrictive rules imposed upon adults made the lives of children pure hell at times and still does, in Dave's cult.

Here is the list of Dave's commands for obedient children. One's children must never disrupt Holy Dave when he is speaking.

Here is what is expected of children at services:

• Children must learn to play, read, draw or color quietly, and stay close to their parents. School-age children should gradually learn to pay attention and, eventually, take notes.

• Crying or fussing babies and toddlers should be immediately taken out of the room where services are held, and quieted elsewhere, so they do not unduly disrupt the proceedings. A child’s behavior, however, must not be allowed to cause a parent to miss large portions of the service.

• Children should not be unruly and should show respect for others, and the property of others, at all times. (This applies whether the congregation meets in a hall or at a host’s home.)

• Little ones should never be left unattended before, during or after services. (This does not mean that parents must continually hover over them, but at least one parent should be aware of what they are doing and supervise from a distance.)

• Any child under 12 years of age should be accompanied to restrooms by a parent. Any bathroom stops during services should be rare. Make it a habit to address this need beforehand.

• While it is fine for children to play together before and after services, they should not be loud and boisterous.

• Children must never run while at services, or engage in rough horseplay.

Offers of Assistance to Bob Thiel

I have been reminded that ex-church members still want to help Bob with his bookcases.

People have suggested how to straighten his bookcase.

Others told him about the sunbleached and worn-out curtains he uses for his backdrop. 

Some remind him to not wave his arms wildly about accentuating his limp wrists.  

Others have said how distracting it is to see him hold up a booklet in front of his face or wave a big thick bible to impress us. 

People have even suggested not sitting in front of his bathroom door with a 

doorknob next to his head or a wall thermometer gauging how hot his sermon is.

Some have recommended he stop talking about himself in EVERY single sermon.

Does the great Bwana to Africa ever listen?

NO!

And so, his programs look like amateur hour in COGland and are widely mocked and ridiculed in most COG's, particularly in LCG. 

Let's Get This Over With: Is God Trying to Tell Us Something?

So Far, looks like I'm beating Bob Thiel on asking this before he does.  Gotta hurry though!

"Behold! With the dust of my wrath will I choke you. Verily again will I try thine attention to get though oft it seemeth not well to work. Oh the humanity of it! How long wilt thou play football and reject my double portioned chosen one! You're gnna  be so sorry!"

(Ok, I made that up)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saharan-dust-plume-drifting-united-states/

LCG looking for lost Philadelphian Christians in their midst...They seem to be mIssing

7 churches of Revelation

Needed: Real Philadelphia Christians: The Bible predicts that in the last days, people will be focused on themselves and will treat others with disrespect, disdain, and even brutality (2 Timothy 3:1–5). However, Jesus urged His followers to be lights to the world (Matthew 5:13–16). One aspect of being a light to the world is to carry out Jesus’ instructions. His followers are to preach the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of God (Mark 16:15) and warn the world of the troubles ahead (Matthew 24), and to prepare a people to reign with Christ in His Kingdom (Luke 1:17; Revelation 5:10). The Bible uses the term “Philadelphia” to refer to His Church—a name that means “brotherly love.” True Philadelphians will strive to follow Jesus’ admonition to “love one another” (John 15:12–17). They understand that instead of attacking and abusing and sitting in judgment of others, showing compassion and unselfish, outgoing concern for others are the distinguishing marks of real Philadelphia Christians (John 13:34–35). As the world becomes more selfish, crass, disunited, and violent, let’s look for ways to show more brotherly love to others we come into contact with. In this way, we can be real Philadelphia Christians and shine as lights in a darkening world.

Have a profitable Sabbath,

Douglas S. Winnail

------------

"They understand that instead of attacking and abusing and sitting in judgment of others, showing compassion and unselfish, outgoing concern for others are the distinguishing marks of real Philadelphia Christians" 

Seriously? They dare write this after decades of church bashing and mocking of other Christian and now they claim they don't sit in judgment of other Christians? What about abusing their members?  Meredith had a horrendous track record of spiritual abuse against members, as do many of LCG's top "men." families ripped apart and marriages were torn asunder because of Meredith's heavy-handed dictatorship when he was over Church Administration.

What about "compassion, being unselfish and outgoing concern for others?" Sadly, the track record speaks otherwise.

LCG is looking for new hymns for their songbook..just do not send them anything with nasty emotional "feelings"

LCG's Jonathan McNair has a blurb up in the lastest LCG news about the hymnody of the church.

They are looking to expand their repertoire of hymns to be used in Saturday services. Be warned though, DO NOT submit a song that has feelings to them! God forbid if anyone showed any emotion in church!

This was one of the weirdest reasons HWA eventually dumped so-called Protestant hymns from the old gray hymnal. They had too much feeling.

Most COG leaders are a little too dense to remember that all the hymns they sing were songs written by David and others about the feelings in their hearts. feelings of joy, of lament, of doubt, and so much more.

It is much more comforting to sings songs about bashing babies and people's heads against the rocks, armies marching into war, men dominating women, or something supposedly written by Moses. Please do NOT write any syrupy things about grace, justification, or mercy. Those are things that so-called Christians sing about and that is just plain nasty!

Hymns for Living Church of God Services

One way we honor God is by praising Him in song. In the Scriptures, we have the benefit of the words of many songs composed by David and his musicians, as well as Moses and others. We have also been blessed with a recent legacy of a musical version of these songs, primarily through the work of Mr. Dwight Armstrong. More recent additions to our compilation of hymns were made by others during the latter years of Mr. Herbert Armstrong’s life. We sing many of these hymns every week in our congregations around the world.

With our recent reliance on streaming technology, including our musical praise of God, it seems appropriate to revisit our recorded versions of our hymns, and consider updating the audio using the most recent recording technology. As part of this effort, Mr. Weston has approved including additional hymns that have been written by talented musicians in the Living Church of God. As we read in Psalm 98:1, it gives glory to God to “sing to the Lord a new song!”

If you would like to submit a hymn for possible inclusion in our updated collection, please bear the following guidelines in mind.

• Submitted hymns should be based closely upon scriptural passages.

• Much “Christian music” today expresses religious feeling but does not reflect the words of the Bible.

• Submissions should be in the traditional format that we use for congregational singing, typically with two to four verses in a four-stanza framework.

• A song written for congregational singing is arranged differently than a song performed for special music. For example, some of the songs in our current hymnal were initially written for special music and later modified for congregational hymns.

• Melodies should be clear, simple and singable, able to be quickly learned and easily remembered.

• Lyrics should be well-formed and pleasing to the ear, maintaining the clear, powerful style of the written word of God.

• Complete arrangement of a hymn is not required for consideration.

• Complete compositions are certainly acceptable. However, simply submitting lyrics and melody together would be adequate for initial consideration.

If you are interested, stay tuned for upcoming announcements for more information on submitting a composition.—Jonathan McNair

UPDATED: Sabbatarian Prophet Makes A Precise Prophetic Prediction, Unlike COG Self-Appointed Prophets

A person with a Sabbatarian background has made a prophecy about an event to happen precisely on July18, 2020. On that day a nuclear bomb will be dropped on Nashville, TN.

Now, we all know it will not happen, but my point is, here is a person who provides precise details about what he/she sees happening and actually provides lots of interesting facts to back up his/her statements.

Compare that to all the "true" prophets that have self-appointed themselves in the Churches of God. Not a single one of them will ever step out on a limb and make a precise prediction about something that will happen in the immediate future on a specific day. The few that have tried have all failed.  Every single one of them. Those that failed are labeled by the other COG prophets as fake, while they are right and could never make a similar mistake, just wait and see.

What we get from all of our self-appointed prophets is, "it could be", "it may happen", "it's at least 19 years away, but less than 20", "it might happen on Pentecost of ___, ___,  ___", "the end of the 19-year time cycle ends _____", or my favorite, "a strong hand from someplace is going to spank humanity."  All such impotent nonsense.

Here is what the Sabbatarian prophet is predicting:

This website is dedicated to identifying that there will be a nuclear attack in Nashville, Tennessee on July 18, 2020. This reality is based on prophetic revelations from the Bible. These revelations identify that Islam will be the power responsible for accomplishing the attack.

The message of warning that is derived from the Bible is established on the rules of interpretation that are identified within the Bible itself. For this reason, some time will be spent setting forth those rules so that the authority behind this message is recognized to be fully derived from and based on God's Word.

In conjunction with identifying certain principles of biblical interpretation, we will identify the prophetic players and subjects that are involved with the attack in Nashville. Some of the subjects will be linked to more detailed presentations on this website. Those subjects and players include Donald Trump, the forty-fifth and final president of the United States of America; the USA as represented in Bible prophecy; the Roman Catholic Church; the United Nations; Russia, including its current leader Vladimir Putin; the Seventh-day Adventist Church; Ellen White and the history of the nuclear attacks on Japan in 1945.

You can read the entire thing here.

The Millerite legacy is still alive and still making predictions.

As crazy as it is, it is far more interesting than any of the crap we hear from our current wishy-washy self-appointed prophets in the Church of God, whether they be Dave pack, Gerald Flurry, Ron Weinland or our perpetually whiney Bob Thiel.


UPDATE:  

It seems a newspaper in Nashville actually published two full-page ads from this group of whacko's. Now the paper is investigating why someone allowed it to be published.

Tennessean apologizes, launches investigation after 'horrific' ad runs in print editions
The Tennessean is investigating how a paid advertisement from a fringe religious group was published on Sunday in violation of the newspaper’s long-established standards. 

The ad featured a bizarre, pseudo-religious “prophecy,” including the declaration of an impending nuclear attack in Nashville by “Islam.” 

The ad was immediately ordered to be pulled from future editions by sales executives and the investigation launched. A similar ad, one that did not mention Islam but also contained an end-times prophecy, published in the newspaper on June 17. 

The newspaper’s advertising standards clearly forbid hate speech. Advertisements that do not meet the paper’s standards are routinely rejected for publication. 

Kevin Gentzel, President of Marketing Solutions and Chief Revenue Officer for Gannett, parent company of The Tennessean, forcefully repudiated the advertisement in a tweet on Sunday.

Now watch as Bob Thiel will claim this is one more example of religious persecution. Papers will refuse to print religious prophecy crap from him in the future and it will be a sign he is being persecuted.

Being a self-appointed false prophet is a thankless job. But, there is always some fool who will try, particularly in the Church of God.

See article here

The self-appointed "prophet" Is MAD! Mad I tell you! Mad! Mad! Mad!

Well dang! I've gone and ticked off God's one and ONLY true prophet! The self-appointed prophet from Arroyo Grande is mad tonight!  Mad! Mad! Mad! 

Whoa boy! He tried to display some manly whoop-ass but, it kind of backfired, as usual.

Bob Thiel, of the improperly named "continuing" Church of God is spitting mad tonight. We have been commanded to believe that all of Bwana Bob's dreams and Gaylon Bonjour's double blessings have set him apart to be a prophet of God and a leader of a splinter church. 

It's still a lie no matter how many times he tries to claim it is not.

Here is just part of the fun from the Great Bwana:

Notice something Gary Leonard posted yesterday:

When has the church ever had a modern-day prophet in its midst? Every single self-appointed prophet has been proven to be a certified liar.  Not one thing they have said has ever come true, and this includes Bob Thiel. (Ron Weinland: “I am the last apostle for the Church of God in this final age of mankind” June 20, 2020) 

While Gary Leonard tries to lump me in with people like CGPKG’s Ron Weinland, PCG’s Gerald Flurry, and until his death, James Malm. All of whom were self-appointed in the prophetic realm and all of whom clearly made false prophecies. The reality is that I am not self-appointed, nor a certified liar, plus predictions I have had have certainly come to pass. I have not been false–this fact (plus the fact I do not take a salary from CCOG) goes against the paradigms that people like Gary Leonard have. And in his case, result in him repeatedly posting falsehoods that the uninformed (as well as those who prefer to believe a lie) accept.

Bwana Bob claims Satan is behind people not believing him and associating him with other lying COG false prophets, like Weinland, Malm, Flurry, and Pack. 

Satan has long improperly used ‘guilt by association’ as a means to get people to not pay sufficient attention to the truth. Jesus, for example was “was numbered with the transgressors” (Luke 22:37), plus He taught that His opponents said He was “a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!” (Luke 7:34). Sadly, most professing Christians today are lukewarm and falsely feel it is ‘safer’ to not accept anyone could be a prophet, which is contrary to end time and other scriptures. 

Perhaps it should be pointed out that Gary Leonard calls me a liar, not because I have ever posted a lie, but because he cannot accept testimony about what happened with me on the prophet matter to be acceptable to him. Nor does he accept that God used dreams like the Bible prophesies. That is his loss, but that does not make me a liar.

False testimony of a self-appointed COG prophet is still a lie. God did not set Bwana Bob apart to lead a church and did not doubly bless him to ensure some mystical baton was passed off to him.  That is a fact. 

I as NOT self-appointed. Nor did I ask for anything like being anointed for a double-portion of God’s spirit.

Yes, he is! The more he tries to prove his self-appointed as something miraculous the bigger fool he looks. Gaylyn Bonjour had absolutely no intention of doubly blessing Bwana Bob to be a church leader. Bonjour rejected that Idea as did Rod Meredith.

Here is a short version for what happened: In November 2011, both LCG minister Dr. Jeff Fall and LCG minister Gary Ehman told me that I did NOT need to have hands laid upon me in order to be a true prophet of God. Yet, I told them that something like that needed to happen for me to accept it. And in November/December 2011, I prayed that if I truly had a prophetic role from God that He would have something happen during a planned mid-December 2011 trip to Charlotte, North Carolina to confirm it or deny it if that were His will. As it turned out, on 12/15/2011 hands were laid upon me in Charlotte by LCG minister Gaylyn Bonjour, who I had not even intended to see then (I had asked to see Gary Ehman, but as it turned out, he was not in the Charlotte office due to an unexpected illness). After seeing Gaylyn Bonjour mentioning some health issues and wisdom, he laid hands on me, and specifically prayed that I would be granted a “double-portion” of God’s Holy Spirit, and he anointed me with oil. Afterwards, Gaylyn told me that he had not ever requested a “double portion’ of God’s Spirit before on anyone, but he felt that it was reminiscent of the time that the prophetic and ecclesiastical leadership mantle passed from the Prophet Elijah to Elisha (2 Kings 2:9-13). Gaylyn Bonjour had been unaware that I had prayed that God would have me anointed or somehow identified for a prophetic role on that mid-December 2011 trip if that were His plan for me and I had never discussed my possible prophetic role with him prior to this anointing. On 12/18/12, I asked Gaylyn Bonjour if he knew what he may have unintentionally done and he said yes. This 12/15/11 anointing appears to be the first biblically-appropriate prophetic anointing in the Church of God in many decades, if not many, many multiple centuries. And the legitimacy of this anointing has been proven by subsequent events–though many do not seem to understand how God works at times.

Bwana Bob claims he knew Meredith's wife was going to die from cancer. And therefore was prophetic. Another tale of hot air. Only after the fact she was diagnosed was the prophecy revealed.  Some prophecy.

As it also turned out, I tried to meet with Dr. Meredith on December 19, 2011 to tell him that it seemed God was telling me that his wife was about to be struck with something serious. A few weeks later (per Dr. Meredith’s letter dated 1/12/12), Dr. Meredith reported that his wife (who was much younger than he) was stricken with stage four cancer (she later died on November 29, 2013). That prediction was not the result of analytical skills on my behalf, but I believe were insights from God’s Spirit.

In my view, the unexpected ‘double-portion anointing, Gaylyn Bonjour’s comments about the mantle passing, and my feeling led to tell of something about to hit Sheryl Meredith, were the result of God answering my prayers in November/December 2011 that the prophet matter would be confirmed or denied in Charlotte with my December 2011 trip. Essentially, this was THREE confirmations.

Whoa boy, the excuses are getting deeper! Still self-appointed though. 

Let this be clear, I was absolutely anointed, had hands laid over me, and the LCG minister who did so prayed that I would receive a ‘double-portion’ of God’s Holy Spirit, and afterwards that same minister (Gaylyn Bonjour) stated that this was reminiscent of the mantle passing from Elijah to Elisha (Gaylyn Bonjour also brought up the passing of the mantle related to this when we spoke on March 23, 2012). The fact that he did not originally intend to pray that I receive a ‘double-portion’ of God’s Holy Spirit is of no consequence, as the Bible shows that although Isaac had not intended to provide certain blessings to Jacob, once Isaac laid hands upon Jacob and gave the prayer, the anointed blessing would remain according to the Bible (Genesis 27)–and unlike Jacob, I did not employ any deceit in the anointing.

Bwana Bob claims he has "prophetic fruits." Just another in a long line of false prophets that have hit the church over the last 80 some years.  Every single one of them has been liars. 

Furthermore, understand that I believe that I do have the appropriate prophetic fruits that Jesus discussed (Matthew 7:15-20) and that those truly interested in the truth can see this if they truly wish to prayfully look into this. Perhaps it should be mentioned that while some question my ordination, others have also had concerns about God’s anointing and ordinations (2 Kings 9:1-11; Jeremiah 43:2; Genesis 27:26-37). God does not always do things the way humans think He does (cf. Isaiah 55:8-9).

Gary Leonard does not want to accept that I have the fruits of a prophet and meet the biblical and COG criteria for that.

How can I accept any of the lies of Bwana Bob as true when as a Christ denier he preaches useless nonsense that no Christian ever needs to worry about. Until he dumps every single myth of Herbert Armstrong, including the racist British Isrealism crappoloa and embraces the New Covenant, he CANNOT and WILL NOT be trusted by any real Christian. It simply can not happen.

In the meantime, I recommend this to Bwana Bob:

Lighten up buttercup! It's not like you are a prophet or anything.