You had better get your luggage ready. In two months item you will be leavening your COG group to go over to Dave's side.
Haggai Fulfilled—When Reunification Occurs
Most are by now probably wondering: When will the events described in Haggai take place? Before which Feast of Tabernacles (remember, Haggai means “My Feast”) will brethren be reunified? The answer is found by returning to Haggai 1. Verses 14 and 15 state that “all the remnant of the people…came and did work in the House of the Lord of Hosts, their God, in the four and twentieth day of the sixth month, in the second year of Darius the king.” We saw in an earlier announcement that this is the 24th day of the sixth month (Elul) in God’s sacred calendar.
For now, I will merely state that the prophecy applies to THIS SUMMER—August 30, 2013. Next week I will present MANY reasons.
20 comments:
It would seem Pack is backing himself into a corner on this one. I'm sure he will try to wiggle out of it by spritualizing it or claim he was misinterpreted.
We've certainly had many opportunities to watch Armstrong-related meltdowns as they unwound in the recent past.
You would think that when these motor mouths provide timelines as measuring devices of their accuracy, and then fail to meet them, that they would become ashamed, and silently fall off the map. In the case at hand, it would be so wonderful if when Pack's delusions fail to materialize prior to their feast, he would simply fade away. But, a very public meltdown has not mercifully shut Ron Weinland's mouth. With Pack, sometime in September, whether or not there is a meltdown, we'll probably be reading a barrage of excuses accompanied by whining. Or he may plagiarize another common response and insist that the fulfillment was spiritual, failing to manifest itself in a physical, observable manner.
Once again, he's given himself plenty of rope.
BB
I am so glad to see Pack post this. Maybe now some of those with him will finally wake-up and he will experience the mass exodus that several other groups have encountered. He has had quite a few members leave RCG over the years, but he has had an increase in attendance due to the constant advertising and the demise of other groups. Here is a little information on the Persian King Darius: This is when he reigned September 522 BCE to
October 486 BCE (36 years). Is Pack going to insist that their is an end-time Darius? Time will tell....
'Leavening' I think you meant 'leaving' Right?
It's going to be a long hot summer of meltdown for the Cult of Herbert Armstrong.
Either Haggai has long been fulfilled in Olde Testament times or it never will be.
Do look for another major "exodus" from Armstrongist groups -- most probably Davey's, but we'll see.
A wolf in sheep's clothing: Ravening wolf - Rapacious; voraciously devouring; hungry even to rage: Applied to the false teacher, it means that he assumed the appearance of holiness in order that he might the more readily get the property of the people -- he is full of extortion and excess.
You folks in RCG -- you need to pay attention to what Jesus told you about Davey Pack in Matthew 7:15.
He's a really hungry wolf and will shear you before he eats you.
(Hey, here's an idea: The Hungry Wolf Church of God [HWCoG] and the HW part makes it look like Herbert W(olf) Armstrong! Absolutely perfect! Change the name NOW Davey!)
Seetblood777:
Just leave the 'Leavening'.
It works well in context.
Sigh. This is not prophecy people. Hello?
Current "BUZZ" about Pack in the UCG is ZERO!
Nope, not even discussed by anyone, and only a couple of people with a cursory interest who shake their heads in amazement while watching the "train wreck" of Pack unfold.
Incidentally, I am thinking about planning my own "Reuniting of the COG" with a big BBQ celebration right after Packs "Great Disappointment" on August 30th. How about a Labor Day celebration at the ranch? Everyone welcome, from atheist to deist, assorted alphabet COGs, CoG7, Adventists, Tkach , Dennis, Doug, Byker, Gary, whoever.
Attendance requirement , ... must be able to have fun and not be a jerk off, mentally ill, or pushing of an agenda, and you have to like people...
OOPS... guess that really cuts down the invite list to about 6 people!
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
Photo at the top of this original post has got me laughing! .... Keep "CLAM" and wait for August 30th!
Obviously intended to be "CALM", but I think that "CLAM" still works anyway!
Luv,
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
Notice some other dates from Haggai that follow from Dave's August 30.
September 24 (last day of the Feast of Tabernacles), per Haggai 2:1.
November 27 (day before Thanksgiving Day in the USA) per Haggai 2:10.
The optimistic scenario for Dave is that he can tell his people, as of Thanksgiving 2013, "Nobody outside RCG now has the Holy Spirit" and can then proceed onward much as before.
The pessimistic scenario, of course, involves too literal a fulfillment of Haggai, with RCG members being told that they must now become workers to build the temple (the RCG compound?) lest they lose their salvation, and we could have another Jonestown in the making.
My guess is that Dave values his lifestyle and his public respectability as a Wadsworth bigwig (HA!) to follow the pessimistic scenario. What'll probably happen on August 30 is nothing more than that Pack will make official his claim of being the one and only place where the Holy Spirit can be found.
Joe: I found that "Clam" on Google. It is about as ludicrous as Packtard is, so I thought it was appropriate.
Don't know about August 30, 2013, but Paramount announced that June 26, 2015 is the reboot of the Terminator, where Arnold Schwartenegger will have it as The Day of Reunification with his movie career as the android with a checkered future.
We wonder if Davey Pack will be featured as one of the bad guys -- maybe another android from the future?
In a way, this is an interesting new marketing approach. Most of the people who are into end time prophecies (instead of the current real time blessings of living the Christian life) look to the Book of Revelation, which appears to dwell on specific activities of Father God and Jesus Christ, but provides amazingly scant information on the specific activities of the church in that time frame.
So, along comes Pack, saying, "Guys, the reason you don't see ME in prophecy is that you are looking in the wrong place!" He takes a somewhat obscure book which appears, on its face, to restrict itself to documenting the time in history when the Israelites have been released from captivity, and are led to devote their efforts to the rebuilding of the temple, and he arbitrarily assigns prophetic significance to these activities. Armstrongism took commonalities in recurring human experience, the seeming propensity of history to repeat itself, and turned it into a kind of axiom which they used to interpret prophecy: Dualness in fulfillment. Small initial fulfillment, followed by fulfillment on a much larger scale, perhaps hundreds or even thousands of years later. This is nothing more than an indulgence in speculation, radical and unwarranted leaps, arbitrary insertion of themselves into things Biblical, with no proof, no "witness of God"' and culminating in failure which, in denial mode after the fact, they say is not failure, but delay, even going so far as to blame their members (aka "the dumb sheep") for that delay.
Alleging ancient private conversations, a revisionist Pack is now implying that HWA endorsed or perhaps even spawned this Haggai theory, but that somehow God had revealed none of the specifics to HWA during his ministry. It seems extremely unusual, and totally out of character for HWA, for someone to quote him as admitting that he did not know something. What we do know for a fact is that prior to 1972-75, HWA always taught that the endtime prophecies would culminate at the end of his two 19 year time cycles. He was going to live through all of these events, to lead his people into the place of safety, and be alive and present for the first resurrection. Haggai was never emphasized, never a memorable part of his program in terms of end time ministry. When 1972-75 failed, HWA blamed the dumb sheep for not being ready, never admitted to being wrong, and began a third unexpected 19 year time cycle, traveling around the world vainly having photo ops with world leaders purchased for him by his advance team, and preaching a useless and cryptic gospel consisting of sound bytes that did not name or credit Jesus Christ. It was an exercise in large scale street theatre, acted out to authenticate his "work" for the benefit of his faithful contributors. A "CYA" maneuver, if you will, to compensate for the disappointment of 1975.
HWA is invoked in some manipulative way by all who claim an Armstrong franchise. These people all seem to retroactively claim HWA's endorsement, yet when it came time for the man (allegedly guided by God, and an impersonal "force", their understanding of the Holy Spirit) to pick a successor, these people were never even considered or thought of. (For an example of how God really chooses pivotal successors, read the story of King David, who was almost but not quite overlooked). There are some who say that that was God's plan for instituting the so-called Laodecean era, but Pack himself has always maintained that the Tkach era WCG didn't even qualify to be Laodecean, that theirs was a full-fledged apostasy.
I love it when people back themselves into a corner where they will be forced to stand and deliver. It certainly facillitates the discernment process. The arrogant, boasting self-important way in which this is being presented gives it the advance aura of a train wreck, another object lesson in which God humbles the proud. We will soon know the outcome!
BB
Collette Jenkins, Religion Editor for the Akron Beacon Journal now has all the information needed to write a bit more than a fluff piece on Joshua C Pack. She would like to speak with present and former followers in time.
Pack doesn't know the difference between exegesis (reading the meaning out of the text) and eisegesis (reading a meaning INTO the text.
Haggai is saying that those who returned from captivity were encouraged to get back to building the temple.
Pack, in effect says, "I have an idea, let's find a passage to support it." Does he know the need to consider the context of a verse? If the everyday sense makes sense, don't look for any other sense or you will end up with nonsense.
So, better late than never. Anytime is a good time for a COG leader to hang himself by setting "prophetic" dates.
So, if no leaders die in August (hopefully Meredith kicks the bucket at some other time...) and nobody comes flocking to join Pack, amazed by his royal awesomeness, then maybe there will be a mass exodus OUT of RCG (instead of into it) in September or October.
It is really good to see Pack setting up the gallows for himself like this. There's no chance that Pack's prophecies are going to come true, so it's just a matter of watching the fallout when they don't. Let's hope it's spectacular!
I am shocked that this Dave Pack has not learned anything from HWA's numerous false predictions, 1936, Mussolini, Hitler, end of World War II, 1975, his false prediction in Mystery of the Ages that Christ would return before 2000, or even what happened to Weinland with his three failed predictions.
Pack is setting dates by simply implying that he will lead RCG until Christ's return.
Although Pack has not set a date for Christ's return he has seemed to have set a date for something dramatic to happen among the other COGs. When his prediction fails miserably how can his failed prediction not cause the same sort of dissension and resistance that HWA's failed prediction of 1972 helped to encourage?
Pack is setting himself up for a bog fall.
Pack's hijacking attempt of the PCG is futile.
In a Flurryite's world, the PCG is many things, but filthy laity is not one of them.
Flurry got around this, and the dead Joseph [Joshua] Tkach problem, by writing in two Joshuas and adding them to his prophecy updates. There's now a unlawful Joshua, and a lawful Joshua, GF being the latter. Pack knows this, but has lost his patience, and is now counting on the PCG membership being too dull-witted to know their Joshua.
Simplistic thinkers might assume that if one is a prophet, then he prophesies 24-7. IOW, every word that comes out of the prophet's mouth has future significance. That bears no resemblance to reality. Prophets were men of God, who had other responsibilities, such as counseling their fellow leaders in the theocracy that was ancient Israel. Some administered to others through miracles.
If you read Haggai, it is a message of encouragement, and the take away is much the same as one of the take always from the teachings of Jesus, and those of Paul: Put God first, and He will bless you. The obvious prophetic element, and this actually becomes the encouragement, involves the future glory of the temple in the time of Jesus Christ, following its restoration by Herod the Great, an Idumean convert to Judaism. Haggai also encourages Zerrubabel, as he knows that as a descendant of David, Zerrubabel remains in the lineage of the messiah, despite,the horrible sins of Zerrubabel's grandfather.
BB
There is not the slightest hint in the writings of Haggai which would indicate that this is a dual prophecy also applicable to the end times. We have only the word of a self-ordained apostle in support of that theory, and at best, it's a self serving tool which he has apparently used to extract unnatural "offerings" from his members.
BB
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