There is nothing nastier than COG ministers and leaders sticking their noses into COG member's bedrooms. Far too many of them seem to make it their goal to make member's lives as miserable as they can and controlling what people do in their bedrooms is their ultimate control.
Rod Meredith was the king of that in the church. He wielded a heavy hand when he was over Church Administration when he stuck his nose into thousands of marriages over the years. Far too many of them he broke up. Add to that his incessant need to talk about sex in sermons, bible studies, and in classroom lectures and you have the perfect meddlesome minister.
Now Bwana Bob Thiel is following in the steps of his spiritual daddy (Rod Meredith) and is now telling his 4,000 some African members and his 299 Caucasians what kind of sex to have.
Given that Bwana Elijah Thiel is such a theological nightmare in the crap that he teaches, would you trust him to tell you what you can and can't do in the bedroom?
He has released a "sermon" on sex and he thinks it is so sexual that it deserves a "parental discretion" advisory.
Sex and Marriage
Why is there sex and why is there marriage? Parental discretion is advised as to whether or not everything in this sermon is now appropriate for their children. Dr. Thiel goes over scriptures, “The Missing Dimension in Sex,” and provides answers to questions, such as:
- What did Jesus say about marriage?
- Are married couples biblically supposed to have sex?
- Is sex one way to express love?
- Does God have a purpose for sex?
- What are the reasons for sex in marriage?
- What are the purposes for marriage?
- How do humans differ from animals?
- Was sex really necessary?
- What are the divine purposes of sex?
- Why not fornication or adultery?
- Is marriage supposed to be a God-plane relationship?
- Are families intended as a God-plane relationship?
- How does reproduction picture spiritual salvation?
- What are the different types of love?
- What type of love should Christians have?
- Is oral sex allowed?
- Is anal sex prohibited by scripture?
- Should intercourse be avoided during a woman’s menstrual cycle?
- Is it appropriate to enjoy your five senses?
- Are Christian couples supposed to produce godly offspring?
- What about building character and God’s deification plan?
Today, Sunday, July 18, he pops back on with a sermon on birth control.
Can Christians Use Birth Control?
There are various views on birth control as well as various methods. Time magazine has covered some history of it (and even mentioned Casanova). Did Jesus make a statement that might be consistent with birth control? In this video, Dr. Thiel goes over some of that as well as some relevant scriptures. He also mentions positions of the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Continuing Church of God. Dr. Thiel also provides some quotes from the book “The Missing Dimension in Sex” about this topic. He discusses methods of birth control and points out which are abortive and which are not. Timing, herbal, and barrier methods are discussed.
Always majoring in the minors and never in the grace-filled life real believers live in. Such a pathetic meddlesome little man.
38 comments:
The sermon was given in response to many married brethren's questions from several COG regarding what God's Word says about marital sex. Why would you have a problem with answering the questions of married brethren who are concerned about what God says on this subject, particularly at a time when many people are confused & in turmoil regarding all aspects of sex ? I think Bob handled a difficult subject thoroughly in his article, providing all the information married brethren who are concerned about what God's Word says, need to make up their own minds.
Playing this sermon in the bedroom would be an effective form of birth control.
These ministers all hanker for the glory days in the 1950s to 1980s when most members were new to Christianity, and viewed their ministers as big daddy's with all the answers.
Time has moved on, the average age in some congregations is in the mid 70s, yet the power hungry ministers won't let go. They still insist on treating their members as naive children who need to be bossed around for their own good.
Bob asks:
How do humans differ from animals?
Well, dolphins and humans both visibly enjoy sex, so the answer must be that dolphins don't tithe!
Does God have a purpose for sex?
Is Bob asking whether the Holy Spirit enjoyed impregnating Mary, or whether it was just a duty like an AC coed putting out for Garner Ted?
Is sex one way to express love?
Sex is actually SEVERAL was to express love, as the later question about oral sex should help explain. But this is a PG-13 sermon, so I assume Bob will mostly leave us guessing about the acceptable boundaries of using sex to express love.
Are married couples biblically supposed to have sex?
Bob's god must disapprove of couples having sex Koranically or Tamudically, so I guess biblically is what's allowed.
Is it appropriate to enjoy your five senses?
Yes. But don't try to enjoy a sixth sense, or God will smite you for dabbling in the occult!
Why not fornication or adultery?
Because only the Holy Spirit gets that privilege, cuckolding Joseph by raping the betrothed Mary and making Joseph raise the rape-baby after the real father disappears.
What did Jesus say about marriage?
This alone is a topic that by itself could fill several dedicated sermons. For this to be just one point out of 20 in a sermon is proof positive that Bwana Bob never completed Spokesman Club.
Yeah, right. I'm absolutely suuuuuure the vanity church had all kinds of questions about sex that they needed Bob to answer.
The sermon was given in response to many married brethren's questions from several COG regarding what God's Word says about marital sex. Why would you have a problem with answering the questions of married brethren who are concerned about what God says on this subject, particularly at a time when many people are confused & in turmoil regarding all aspects of sex ? I think Bob handled a difficult subject thoroughly in his article, providing all the information married brethren who are concerned about what God's Word says, need to make up their own minds.
Hi, Bob! The problem is that such a barrage of shallow answers will usually raise more questions than it resolves. The bullet points in your list would make a great sermon series, maybe one sermon each month for a year. But then you would need to really research your topic, and not just give a pat little two-minute PCD-letter answer to each of your bullet points, and people might find out just how shallow your knowledge really is.
In isolation, this sermon would appear reasonable to an outsider. However you're missing the larger picture. ACOG culture is that of ministers micro managing members lives. This sermon is viewed and complained about in this context.
Btw, in the ACOGs, members don't get to "make up their own minds." Try telling that to a minister and see what happens.
10:07 wrote: "The sermon was given in response to many married brethren's questions from several COG regarding what God's Word says about marital sex."
Sure thing Bob! Thats a bunch of bull and you know it. No COG member needs to be going to the ministry about any topic on sex, or for any other matter that personal decisions can be made. None of them is qualified to be making such meddlesome comments as they do.
COG leaders and far too many ministers run around with their chests popped out as if they were important or even in a position as a Levite. It is all about control because the COG's still worship Moses over Jesus. That's why Christ came from a different linage than the Levitical priesthood line. The rules against legalism started being broke at that point The rules and interference legalists enslaved people with were thrown out the door throughout the ministry of Jesus. Grace trumped the law and the 10 commandments.
No COG member should ever need to consult a minister or one of HWA's books as an authoritative source. People have a brain and should be using discernment to engage their own thinking. No COG member should EVER look at Bob Thiel as an authority on anything, other than his homeopathy. Self-appointed COG leaders should never be followed or given the power to ruin people's lives. When they do so they invaldate every thing Christ came to do.
The overt sex obsession in ACOG is not really about sex but power. Power and control. It always has been. Power and control over who can marry and to whom. Power and control over when marriage is allowed, where they will live, acceptable locations to live, acceptable housing. The list is endless. Intricate sermons on the subject of sex is one aspect of power and control.
The is a whole endless list into eternity of power and control in the church environment. The ministry actually don't want the membership to be married let alone be happily married. Why not? because it's easier to have power and control on unmarried childless members. A threefold cord being stronger than a onefold.
This is the complete opposite of God the Father and Jesus Christ freedom of choice and godly creation of Marriage and Family.
Forget sex. Can any minister out there please tell me what righteous color of car I should buy????
Bob neglects bondage and discipline sex. We know, from Leona McNair, his spiritual daddy Meredith had a collection of b&d porn. So why didn't Bwana Bob cover thi Missing Dimension?
What about HWA's flog log? Maybe Flurry and his new bride are making a video to educate PCG members.
I never found commands on parenting or sexual issues given by a Unmated Deity that lives with his single son and no real life relationships or married NT Apostles, who also had no children evidently as all that credible.
"...unmarried NT Apostles..."
Does it bother Bob that a significant number of his African members are polygamous?
It is painful to watch his actual video. He acts and presents as if even he doesn't want to be there!
Demons love your comment.
In the ACOGs, ministerial meddling is called 'counseling.' On several occasions when I head my minister use that word, I could tell by the sleazy tone in his voice that he knew he wasn't doing the right thing.
Eewww
To all my fellow hominids pondering sexuality:
First, who are those White people in the graphic? They are not First Century Jews. That's for sure. First century Jews would be dark skinned, dark haired and have dark eyes. Those people look like regulars at a British pub who lost their clothes by accident or on purpose. Nobody even has a tan.
We're all hominids. We beat out other hominid groups by having lots of sex, reproducing a lot and being smarter. Now we have to fight those tendencies because the old ethic of the survival of the fittest has been replaced by other modern ethical demands of our respective societies.
It is difficult being a human being. Sex makes it more difficult. Like Billy Crystal said in one of his movies: men and women can't be friends because sex always gets in the way. Marriage, family and sex never go right naturally. They only go right if God grants you a grace. Hemingway wrote "The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places." My observation on life leads me to believe that it is sex that breaks a lot of people.
What I am trying to say, I guess, is that if you teach sex through legalism and without grace, you will just discover that sex cannot be tamed. I am not saying you can do anything you want and God will extend grace to your act (That's what Armstrongists think grace is). I am saying that you can talk up all the rules and regulations you want and none of it will work. That's like salvation by works. Sex instruction only works if God graciously makes it work for you. That's like salvation by grace through faith.
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DennisCDiehl July 18, 2021 at 3:33 PM
"...unmarried NT Apostles..."
Uh we know at least Peter, Phillip, and Jesus’ brothers like James were married.
Well these comments explain alot NEO.I always thought you might be a bit rasputin behind closed doors.
"Sex instruction only works if God graciously makes it work for you."
So again the churchianity world view that adults are like dependent children who need God or the Big People ministers to make anything work out.
No NEO. We are adults with God plane minds who are capable of great achievements. God says; be strong, brave and courageous. Power hungry churchianity instructs: bury your pounds in the ground and be like helpless dependent children.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
DennisCDiehl July 18, 2021 at 3:33 PM
"...unmarried NT Apostles..."
Uh we know at least Peter, Phillip, and Jesus’ brothers like James were married.
====================
Uh..you'd never know it and of course, Middle Eastern relationships weren't exactly what we'd want to draw on today for advice with children and relationships. Paul, in his recommended "it is better to be like me..." (unmarried) was not a good source for practical advice either.
He recommended those that had families to act as if they had none. Great advice.
The Unmarried and Widowed
I Cor 7 …28But if you do marry, you have not sinned. And if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. 29What I am saying, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none;"
I personally, as do others, suspect Paul was a repressed gay man who literally beat himself to keep himself under control. Long story but reading Paul's agonizing over the things that he did that he shouldn't and not doing the things that he should etc, without a hint of what they might be, leave plenty of room for anything. He was a deeply troubled man.
Romans 7:15-20
New International Version
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."
Firstly who are those white people in graphic ?
Looks like a painting of two Nymphes to me NEO. 'Luncheon by the grass' or similar.
Sex NEO seems to have become a modern day curse. But usually found as a curse amongst the ministry. The problem with sex within WCG NEO tends to be rooted in the flawed marriage culture of WCG.
Those who became apart of the ministry obviously followed the marriage culture of WCG to the very letter of Loma's law and thus are more prone to be problematic.
Marry in haste and repent at leisure and all that.
Garner Ted being the most infamous with his sexual problems but in reality more the standard than the exception to the rule.
Neo wrote: "Firstly who are those white people in graphic ?"
I remember this painting from art class. It is Lot and his two daughters having sex as Sodom burns in the background. This is true biblical sex!
If it is biblical then Bob Thiel has to like it!
"...a significant number of his African members are polygamous?"
A few times I've heard Bob say, "When we have sex with our wives..." (as romantic as "when we grab a beer from the fridge") perhaps his African members think Bob is using the Royal "We" and he has more than one wife. Hmmm...
Anonymous said...
Why not fornication or adultery?
Because only the Holy Spirit gets that privilege, cuckolding Joseph by raping the betrothed Mary and making Joseph raise the rape-baby after the real father disappears.
July 18, 2021 at 1:08 PM
To 1:08 Obviously you have ZERO fear of God and are blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I fear for you. Please examine your own heart. Also, such a great example for those you want to leave the splinter groups.
I don't remember the sermon topic, but our pastor got on to talking about newlyweds on their first night, "...reading Mr. A's book (MDIS) together". The pastor then remarked about them "still not getting it right..."
I had thought about taking turns reading part of Song of Songs (which can get, uh, interesting) -- but never, never, HWA's MDIS... ugh!
Dennis, you wrote "He was a deeply troubled man."
There is no substantive evidence for this. This is just partisan conjecture. Paul lived under difficult circumstances and pursued a highly self-sacrificial mission. That goes against modern self-oriented American values. Most Americans would easily recognize him as different. But valuing that difference is subjective. I see Paul as a heroic and resolute figure. He was open about his battle with sin. His views were front line and not rear echelon.
If Paul can be faulted it is in that he felt everyone should follow his pattern of rigorous behavior when his pattern of behavior was highly exceptional. But then again some of his writing was done against the backdrop belief that Christ was just about to return. Given that mindset, it is easier to say "take a bullet" to the followers of Christ.
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Problems with sex and marriage seem to be recurring themes on this blog.
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