Saturday, June 8, 2013

Dennis On: Dear Member and Minister - Pick Only One"

Dear Member and Minister
Pick One Only

"Gone will be study papers and committees to continue Joe Tkach’s policy of examining all doctrine to “see where Mr. Armstrong may have been wrong.” And at these conferences there will be no voting on budgets, leaders, policies, changes in bylaws, and other unscriptural time-wasting nonsense brought by the devil that only serve to divide and confuse God’s ministers and God’s people"

Impostle David C. Pack


The admonition of scripture to the individual is to obtain a wide range of input, opinions and facts before coming to a conclusion and making a final decisions. Confer with your spouse, friends, and relatives. Seek much legal advice, get a second and third opinion and meet with professionals. Obtain a multitude of published documents, books and findings. Never rely on the advice of any one doctor, lawyer or instructor.


 Proverbs 1:5
A wise man will hear and will increase learning. And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels.

Proverbs 15:22
Without counsel purposes are disappointed; but in the multitude of counselors they are established

1 Thess 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 

This scripture is clearly about proving what church ministry says in sermons and sermonettes and in this case, the foolish babble that comes out of IMpostle Pack's mouth every week. 

Dennis Diehl - EzineArticles Expert AuthorIMpostle Dave says there will be no voting on budgets.  This will assure that your hard earned money is spent without your permission on things you would not spend it on for things you would not spend it for.  Dave, as always intends to do exactly as he wishes.  He will get your church in so much trouble you won't believe it.  What kind of an organization of any has NO oversight, NO input allowed financially and ONE man making all the decisions.  You are true fools in every sense, Biblical or otherwise if you fall for this con.

IMpostle Dave says you will never get to voice an opinion about who leads you. Only he can lead.  He has assigned all other ministers everywhere to IMpostle Pack assistants and only if you are worthy.  Remember, only WORTHY YOUTH get to go to summer camp so how the hell worthy do you think you will have to prove to IMpostle Pack YOU ARE to get to attach yourself to him.

Members,  YOU will get the minister that the IMpostle Dave says you get.  Like Dave himself , who daily had people calling HQ in days gone buy to save them from Dave or at times called me to ask for help , you will be stuck.  If you get a foolish yes man for a minister, you're stuck.  You have no recourse.  You will be thrown out of church long before anyone Dave approves of.  Worse than foolish if you allow this.  No organization on earth would put up with Dave Pack.

 IMpostle Dave says you won't get any say in policy or CHANGES in by laws.  That means he can do whatever is expedient.  Being right and doing what is expedient is not the same thing.  What Dave so badly tried to hide for years as he left his trail of tears from church to church he now flaunts.  Dave is in your faces folks and I suggest you either not fall for this or get back in his. 
Anything that Dave does not want to face, understand or have to accept to him is "unscriptural, time wasting , nonsense."  How about these scriptures on there being safety in a multitude of advice and counsel? Are these, for you, unscriptural and time wasting nonsense?  It seems that these SCRIPTURAL ADMONITIONS for not making an ass out of yourself and fools out of others are the truth and IMpostle Pack is dead wrong.  Maybe I can't read.  Can you?
IMpostle Pack will allow no studies to show yourself approved. No RIGHTLY dividing the word of truth, whatever that may be for you.  NO inquiry that goes against the Almighty IMpostle Pack.  Are you people brain dead?  Do you have any original thoughts in your own heads that you will defend in the face of this theological clown and tyrant? 
A word to you 16 buffoons for Christ that "counsel and advice."  We know you don't. You are kiss ass yes men.  You want your job and whatever perks IMpostle Pack has promised you.  Find just ONE thing you disagree with him over and bring it to his attention in front of the other 15.  Let us know how that goes for you.  Just remember, freely he has given and history has show that freely he shall and can take it back.  Ask Michael Venish how it feels to have the fist shaking IMpostle Pack in your face when he thought to caution IMpostle Pack on spending money on a campus sending a clear message that Dave's lord does indeed delay his coming and to think twice about calling himself some kind of Joshua the High Priest, which we know is exactly what he thinks to do.  IMpostle Dave left he and his wife destitute and a finer man I have never met in the COGs.  You won't have a chance.

IMpostle Pack is obviously both totally stuck in his past and determined to reproduce it.  Of course, along with it will come ALL that came from it.  There will be investigations into IMpostle Pack and it will come from the endless stream of people he has offended and alienated.  As many go out the back door as come in the front it seems.  That will never end for both minister and member.  If you think he is creating drama now, just wait.  You have not seen anything yet.

IMpostle Pack is a mere Bible reader as are most COG ministers.  They weave and cobble scriptures together that never belong together to make them mean what they never were meant to mean.  Haggai is just one example of making the OT mean what it never meant.

Three times I have challenged the IMpostle to debate me on all things Bible and prophecy  and three times no response.  I did not challenge him thinking he would.  I challenged him to show you he would not.  Big fish, small pond and all that.   

IMpossible Pack is wrongly dividing the book of Haggai.  Before too long you will know that in your soul unless you are totally blind, deaf and dumb.  It is not about IMpostle Pack and he ain't no Joshua.  Or as any Rabbi or OT Scholar might tell the IMpostle ,  "I know Joshua...I got my doctorate in Joshua..and you ain't no Joshua."

What a ridiculous perspective this man has.  He is not special.  He is not found anywhere in the Bible.  He does not have the only direct line to Christ or the Almighty.  He doesn't know everything and in fact actually knows little about the real origins, intent, history and politics of the whole Bible.  He is NOT well read and wants you not to be well read either.  Booklets are not Books and abiding by the views of just one man in this time of history is simply foolish. 

So think about it.  Read his own words about what will never be permitted and then read the scriptures about getting wise counsel and there being safety in that.  Like you need to be told that????  Herbert W Armstrong did many foolish and hurtful things because no one could tell him what to do or not do either.  He wasted millions on himself and his opinion of himself.  HWA had to pay leaders to see him.  That's how the real world works.  NOT ONE of the leaders HWA visited gave a rats ass about who he said or thought he was and what his message was.  And besides, HWA was too afraid to actually preach any Gospel to the world.  He put it in terms they understood, not so they would understand it, but so he could at least get a picture of himself with them.  I understand Prince Charles once told HWA he "needed to learn his place" and indeed he never did.  IMpostle Pack won't either unless it is the dominant one. 

I will remind both minister and member alike one more time what IMpostle Pack said about himself  and then just sit back the next few weeks months and watch the Spirit of Ron Weinland manifest itself once again in Impostle David C. Pack.

Dave challenged you with these words.  YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN THEM AS HE HOPED

 "I want to make a statement,(Boy, now there's a rare topic) if I became deceived,  (And now you have ) I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me.  I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
There a have it....the ball is in your court.  He told you what to do even though now he has told you all there will be no challenges to anything he says, does or wants.  He is now at that place where he told you how he would behave and is now telling you he hopes you forget he told you.

So what will it be????? :

 "There will be no more......."
 "In the multitude of counsel there is safety"

 It's an old story and Dave didn't invent it, but he is recreating it.
Revelation 2 
“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands.  I know your deeds,your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.

 In modern language:
Dave Pack:  "I am an Apostle.  I am Joshua the High Priest"
Church of God: " No you aren't."

 Jesus of Revelation:  "Well done."
Dave Pack:  "Doh!"

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Anonymous said...

"Ask Michael Venish how it feels to have the fist shaking IMpostle Pack in your face when he thought to caution IMpostle Pack on spending money on a campus sending a clear message that Dave's lord does indeed delay his coming and to think twice about calling himself some kind of Joshua the High Priest, which we know is exactly what he thinks to do. IMpostle Dave left he and his wife destitute and a finer man I have never met in the COGs."

To tell the truth, that latest video by Venish was a great disappointment. Venish talked about Pack's arrogance for thinking that the churches of the world were wrong and that Pack's RCG was right. To try to get people all riled up, Venish said that Pack's "arrogance knows no bounds" because Pack not only thought that the churches of the world were wrong but also thought that the Muslims were wrong too!

How did someone like Venish ever manage to sneak into the RCG in the first place? The understanding back in the WCG under HWA was that it was God's one and only true church on earth and that ALL the other religions on earth--Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Evilutionist, Wicca, etc.--were wrong. This is very basic stuff.

The earlier video by Venish had suggested that Pack was a liar for claiming not to have disfellowshipped anyone in the RCG, while in fact Pack had supposedly told Venish to call various RCG ministers and tell them to disfellowship various people in Pack's name. I had expected Venish to give more details of such behavior, but he did not. It makes one suspect that if there was any bad behavior going on in the RCG, Venish himself was so much a part of it that he does not want to talk about it now. It sounds like Venish himself was a party to kicking out other people for reasons unknown and not caring about them, but now wants to feel sorry for himself for being "left destitute" when Pack cut off Venish's own paycheck.

Perhaps Diehl identifies so much with Venish because Diehl too would have liked to continue to collect a paycheck from the WCG even though he no longer believed in the WCG, or the Bible, or God, and just wanted to talk and write against them.

Pack pretended for about a decade to be simply, humbly trying to hold on to what HWA had taught. Now, like others, all of a sudden Pack has done THE TEN YEAR TWIST. Though the end is near yet again and there once was supposedly no time for it, he has started a major building project. Pack has now demanded that everyone send him everything. They are to have "all things common" which actually means that everything becomes Pack's. Pack has started to see himself and his RCG mentioned in the book of Haggai. No dreams, or visions, or messages from God, but Pack thinks he has something figured out. This way Pack can later say that he was simply mistaken in his zeal and enthusiasm if his guesses do not work out. A message direct from God would have been nice. It would be right. If wrong, it could be seen that it was actually from the Devil. But now, the delays and stalling and scamming could continue for many years.

As the poll said, I am "not sure" about Pack and am "waiting to see what transpires." Pack's extensive writing is impressive, but then history is full of demoniacs and their "automatic writing" that produces a lot of literature but no good in the end. Flurry too pretended to be serious by buying the copyrights to some of HWA's writings, but then just edited the literature and changed it so it would not expose his own outrageous and satanic doctrinal changes. Life is full of strange twists. Time will tell, eventually.

For sure, though, I will not be following some nincompoop like Venish who thinks that it is arrogant to say that all the different, mutually contradicting, and evil religions of the world are wrong.

Anonymous said...

Meanwhile in Oklahoma, it's business as usual.

Once again, Flurry dispatched a few of his worthy ones over to Israel, to pound sand on the beach, but it's more than what Pack will accomplish this summer.

You just have know, Flurry is in on the joke, and enjoys watching the train wreck as much as anyone. All he has to do is refrain from mentioning Pack by name, and Edmond will never see Wadsworth in the mirror, until it's too late.

Wadsworth, on the other hand, must be completely blind.

It's simple, really, just correctly identify the chief false apostle [----], and the rest fall like dominoes.

Anonymous said...

They say, Satan loves to hear himself talk; his apostles, more so.

Anonymous said...

They say, Satan loves to hear himself talk; his apostles, more so.

Anonymous said...

As an ex-PCGer, Flurry has already condemned me to his Lake of Fire; what does Pack wish for, to double damn me with his love, as well?

Anonymous said...

Enter the gate of Dave's or Gerald's palace unannounced, and try parking your car in the lot for more than five minutes, before some yahoo comes out to inform you of your trespass. Then you'll know who's private house it really belongs to.

Don't even think of bringing a six-pack to Lake Flurry, it's not going to happen.

DennisCDiehl said...


"Perhaps Diehl identifies so much with Venish because Diehl too would have liked to continue to collect a paycheck from the WCG even though he no longer believed in the WCG

Perhaps you should stop wondering and pick up your phone tomorrow and ask me what you want about why I do or don't do something or why I feel closer to some than others.
864 905 9506

We can have a nice civil chat and you won't have to suspect this or that. You can actually get a straight answer.

I'll give you Michael Venish's number or email and you can ask him personally. I'm sure he'd be pleased to hear from you.

Will be waiting....

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:04, I am glad that you agree that Dave Pack is breaking his old promises. But elsewhere, you speak as though Dave Pack is above reproach. Please pick one story and stick with it. When you contradict yourself, I don't believe you.

Let's bring Michael Venish's main point front and central.

Dave Pack is a false apostle, a false prophet, he is not some prophetic incarnation of some ancient Joshua in a latter-day fulfillment of Haggai. This is what discredits Dave Pack.

And let's be absolutely clear about one thing. RCG is just as "wrong" as ALL the other religions on earth you enjoy hearing criticized. That is a very basic thing.

Why do you keep defending Pack because he teaches other religions are "wrong"? This has nothing to do with Venish's point. It's just a straw man that you're using to attack Venish. How does such mudslinging exonerate Pack for acting like a madman and declaring himself to be an Old Testament prophet with a lampshade on his head? It doesn't make RCG "right."

You've said nothing to justify your characterization of Michael Venish as a "nincompoop". All this does is add an ad hominem fallacy to your earlier straw man fallacy.

You're not "waiting to see" about Dave Pack. You're a dyed-in-the-wool RCG company man.

Douglas Becker said...

Congratulations on doing a superb job on exposing Pack for what he is.

It's frustrating because these cult types don't have to listen, won't change and stubbornly resist correction. They ignore us because they can.

In the end, we should keep on exposing them and then let nature take its course.

It's not going to be a pretty picture.

Assistant Deacon said...

"I am 'not sure' about Pack"...and..."time will tell..."

Anon 6:04, in the words of Professor Kingsfield: "You come in here with a mind full of MUSH..."

Questioning Dennis while withholding a verdict on Pack is mushy, indeed. Enjoy listening to yourself talk.

Anonymous said...

Dave Pack is the wizard of oz. All smoke and mirrors. A conman. If he is joshua, why would he need to convince me, you, or any others. Go ahead, be joshua. It seems to me he can't be joshua until he can convince other people that he is joshua. They(eager believers) will give him power. Dave will use that 'power' to try and get more believers to feed his narcisstic supply. Dave's ministry is to prove to the world how important he is. If he was actually effective by character or in deeds, there would be no need for this charade. What does that say about a man who behaves like this. Nothing worthwhile will come from this, except losing your freedom.

another seekeroftruth